Is Wendy completely outclassed by Willow's skill tree?

[Siren11]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is debatable considering Willow and Bernie do work together in the way of the aggro(Bernie) and the support(Willow) You can't remotely control Bernie's level of aggression like Abigail  but you can pull him out of situations if you need using the calming function much like Abigail. Bernie's teamwork is giving Willow time to cast her spells and gathering enemies for mass extermination.

I did a bad job of explaining what I meant, but I like that Wendy and Abigail feel like two halves of a whole. It feels like you’re more directly controlling both of them, and you have to be more intentional about how you’re fighting since Abigail can’t take too many hits. Willow and Bernie feel more like two separate entities, which is also interesting (especially Bernie’s taunt) but not nearly as fun for me.

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I did a bad job of explaining what I meant, but I like that Wendy and Abigail feel like two halves of a whole. It feels like you’re more directly controlling both of them, and you have to be more intentional about how you’re fighting since Abigail can’t take too many hits. Willow and Bernie feel more like two separate entities, which is also interesting (especially Bernie’s taunt) but not nearly as fun for me.

No I got what you meant I simply disagree with your assessment but if that's how you personally feel about that it's fine but treating Bernie and Willow as separate entities doesn't really work out well for Bernie. As he'll quickly get overwhelmed by hordes or pile up a lot of damage from strong single entities as while he does out put a good deal of damage he's a support tank at his core he needs Willow's damage just as much as Willow relies on his durability and distractions. Also while Willow can function just fine without Bernie he takes the pressure off her when casting and makes her uses of lunar flames and the aoe fire cast a lot easier. This at least in my opinion feels much more like a team than the pair of Abigal and Wendy since all they really offer in the teamwork regard is a dps boost which I'm sure a skill tree will fix.

[Siren11]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No I got what you meant I simply disagree with your assessment but if that's how you personally feel about that it's fine but treating Bernie and Willow as separate entities doesn't really work out well for Bernie. As he'll quickly get overwhelmed by hordes or pile up a lot of damage from strong single entities as while he does out put a good deal of damage he's a support tank at his core he needs Willow's damage just as much as Willow relies on his durability and distractions. Also while Willow can function just fine without Bernie he takes the pressure off her when casting and makes her uses of lunar flames and the aoe fire cast a lot easier. This at least in my opinion feels much more like a team than the pair of Abigal and Wendy since all they really offer in the teamwork regard is a dps boost which I'm sure a skill tree will fix.

If I’m playing with my friends and I abandon them, they’ll definitely also get overwhelmed by hordes. But we still function as separate entities who work together as a team. Willow and Bernie kinda feel like that to me. Wendy and Abigail feel more like you’re playing both of them. I think it’s interesting how Wendy’s positioning and movement affects Abigail’s, and it’s especially fun to play with in boss fights. It’s rewarding to get right and punishing to mess up, and that’s without even getting into all the cool tricks the two of them can do.

So I suppose Willow and Bernie do act more like a traditional “team,” but the player’s level of control over Abigail means that Wendy and Abigail function together in a really unique way. I am definitely excited to see how their skill tree could even improve on this.

[Mysterious box]

14 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

If I’m playing with my friends and I abandon them, they’ll definitely also get overwhelmed by hordes. But we still function as separate entities who work together as a team. Willow and Bernie kinda feel like that to me. Wendy and Abigail feel more like you’re playing both of them. I think it’s interesting how Wendy’s positioning and movement affects Abigail’s, and it’s especially fun to play with in boss fights. It’s rewarding to get right and punishing to mess up, and that’s without even getting into all the cool tricks the two of them can do.

So I suppose Willow and Bernie do act more like a traditional “team,” but the player’s level of control over Abigail means that Wendy and Abigail function together in a really unique way. I am definitely excited to see how their skill tree could even improve on this.

This very much applies to Wendy and Abigail there are plenty of combat situations where Abigail can handle the entire fight on her own again this is very much the reason she was a such a popular pick throughout the years having a follower who can handle combat for you compare that to Willow where people know you can't leave combat completely to him without additional prep. I know about the tactics you can use with Wendy but it feels more like she's just a extended damage modifier which doesn't really scream unique to me beyond the fact her damage is aoe.

Bernie feels more unique than Abigail because his roles are ones that no other followers do in the game. He isn't prioritizing destroying the enemy he's prioritizing your safety and gathering enemies to make them easier targets for you and no other follower currently does this.

19 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

If I’m playing with my friends and I abandon them, they’ll definitely also get overwhelmed by hordes. But we still function as separate entities who work together as a team.

Your friends can't intentionally pull all enemy aggro in most scenarios(it's even a bit tricky for Wigfrid) and they're unlikely to try to tank for you

21 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I think it’s interesting how Wendy’s positioning and movement affects Abigail’s, and it’s especially fun to play with in boss fights. It’s rewarding to get right and punishing to mess up, and that’s without even getting into all the cool tricks the two of them can do.

I'm not sure if you've noticed this but Bernie responds Willow's movement in his own way as well but he keeps a greater deal of max distance because again his role is different than the one Abigail is supposed to play but unlike other followers he'll prioritize keeping within a certain range of Willow over combat.

[Siren11]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This very much applies to Wendy and Abigail there are plenty of combat situations where Abigail can handle the entire fight on her own again this is very much the reason she was a such a popular pick throughout the years having a follower who can handle combat for you compare that to Willow where people know you can't leave combat completely to him without additional prep. I know about the tactics you can use with Wendy but it feels more like she's just a extended damage modifier which doesn't really scream unique to me beyond the fact her damage is aoe.

I’m mostly talking about bosses, since that’s the main reason I play Wendy. But since daily combat can be a bit of a drag, Abigail’s AoE is nice. I’d rather have a follower who can handle the relatively easy but annoying daily challenges but struggles more against bosses.

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Bernie feels more unique than Abigail because his roles are ones that no other followers do in the game. He isn't prioritizing destroying the enemy he's prioritizing your safety and gathering enemies to make them easier targets for you and no other follower currently does this.

Bernie is unique, but I still find him kinda clunky and annoying to use. I’m too used to how Abigail works. Abigail is unique enough for me, anyways. I think all the followers have their own appeal.

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Your friends can't intentionally pull all enemy aggro in most scenarios(it's even a bit tricky for Wigfrid) and they're unlikely to try to tank for you

I’m usually the one dealing with the majority of the enemies, but my friends are great at pulling aggro when I need it. You’ve also never met my friends, bc they do nothing but pull aggro and tank. It’s like my own personal Bernie army.

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm not sure if you've noticed this but Bernie responds Willow's movement in his own way as well but he keeps a greater deal of max distance because again his role is different than the one Abigail is supposed to play but unlike other followers he'll prioritize keeping within a certain range of Willow over combat.

Yeah, I have noticed this. But I still prefer the specifics of how Abigail works and how the player can control her. The movement thing is really just one example. But we can agree to disagree on which follower is best.

The main point is that Willow is stronger (at least until Wendy gets her skill tree), but they’re still distinct in quite a few ways. There are things that Willow does better, but there are also things that Wendy does better. I think they’re both good characters. And clearly some people prefer Wendy’s play style even without her skill tree, so I don’t think we have to worry about her being completely invalidated as a character in the meantime.

[WenericMember]

On 11/5/2024 at 2:18 AM, Catuna_ said:

you can fight almost every boss in the game with Abigail, it's all about getting used to the learning curve

I don't disagree, but its a learning cliff more than a learning curve imo. Also, against the few bosses you can't use abigail at all is just miserable without Beefalo.

 

[AliceShiki]

Wendy is still nicer for a new player IMO, since smaller sanity drain and you don't need to be below 50% sanity to get Abigail up, not to mention you don't need to have played enough days to invest in Bernie's tree.

That said... Yeah, I think Bernie Willow is mostly better than Wendy once we stop talking about new players.

Not really a big deal when considering Wendy doesn't have a skill tree though.

Also, when playing with friends, Abigail increasing the boss' damage taken is sweet.

[Siren11]

26 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Also, when playing with friends, Abigail increasing the boss' damage taken is sweet.

This is really nice. I would also argue that Wendy is better than Willow for multiplayer in general.

[loonreaper]

I've been a Willow main for most of this year but I actually prefer Wendy in a lot of the cases, specifically with the Wendy + Beefalo combo. I just enjoy the mechanic of trying to position / control Abby in fights. Alone she will kill all spiders but lose to a single tallbird. Once you tame a beefalo the real advantage is that 1.54% damage increase while on a beef. Add to that but certain bosses have a very pronounced kiting pattern, as in , Abby will die in just a couple of hits if you don't do it perfectly. This adds an interesting dynamic to fights. Same thing with her potions. Ancient Guardian will kill Abby in a couple of hits unless you give her Vigormortis. So fighting I find more fun with this versus Willow's fire magic mechanic. That and also there is a clear progression for Wendy (tame a beef , get a saddle, get a special saddle) whereas with Willow she's end-game strong from day 1. Just find a bee biome. 

Even her QoL updates are a little much imo. Instant light and heat, cooked foods, fighting nihtmares easily, mob control, the whole FIRE mechanic (Bishops what lol?) just make her a little too easy to play. I mean Wendy is already up there without the skilltree so I can only hope Klei doesn't make her too OP. What they did to Willow was fantastic but ultimately made her a little boring after a while. 

P.S. Willow on the Switch is also impossible to play multiplayer wise so there's that.