Even more changes I want to make to the new skill trees

[Dr.Webber]

10 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

Those sound like two creative new creatures to add, but the problem with depth worms / wyrms being incredibly powerful would still be a thing, indeed. About the merm puppies....that would be more like a critter-follower then? Critter followers are immune to damage as far as I remember, so it wouldn't be "actual" danger for the pet fishies.

They gave me great idea what if it works like Woby Except your feed it Durians instead of acting like a beefalo act in the shape like a befriended hound  from the year of the Varg

but that still leaves two problems

1. if I were to add this, I’d probably need to change the name because it’s based off theory I disagree with so I probably should make clear that they’re not supposed to be merms to be

2. I was also hoping to convert hostile mobs into allies and we don’t really have any ideas for hostile mobs that aren’t overpowered so what do you think I should do?

[NPCMaxwell]

9 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

They gave me great idea what if it works like Woby Except your feed it Durians instead of acting like a beefalo act in the shape like a befriended hound  from the year of the Varg

but that still leaves two problems

1. if I were to add this, I’d probably need to change the name because it’s based off theory I disagree with so I probably should make clear that they’re not supposed to be merms to be

2. I was also hoping to convert hostile mobs into allies and we don’t really have any ideas for hostile mobs that aren’t overpowered so what do you think I should do?

1) Maybe you could rename them to tadpuppies instead. It would still imply they are tiny and "baby" like the critters, but not that they are offsprings of merms. It would be based on the word tadpole (though I know those aren't fish), and keep the puppy part of the name.

2) frogs, if they don't appear in masses (like frog rain) are ok to handle and not too powerful. Maybe those could be used if frog rain is excluded by maybe limiting the allies to only having 5 frogs follow at one time.

[Dr.Webber]

1 hour ago, NPCMaxwell said:

1) Maybe you could rename them to tadpuppies instead. It would still imply they are tiny and "baby" like the critters, but not that they are offsprings of merms. It would be based on the word tadpole (though I know those aren't fish), and keep the puppy part of the name.

2) frogs, if they don't appear in masses (like frog rain) are ok to handle and not too powerful. Maybe those could be used if frog rain is excluded by maybe limiting the allies to only having 5 frogs follow at one time.

Means are part frog so I’ll probably think of something else

[NPCMaxwell]

8 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Means are part frog so I’ll probably think of something else

True, it was just a suggestion, though. If I can think of a different one instead I shall let you know. (though I doubt I can come up with another one)

[NPCMaxwell]

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

Means are part frog so I’ll probably think of something else

OK what if we call them efties instead? Based on newt salamanders's eft stage and the puppies. That's the closest I could think of, that isn't a fish nor a frog nor a water living larva that could be considered related to merms, but still a sort of "baby" amphibian stage to fit the critter theme.

[Dr.Webber]

1 hour ago, NPCMaxwell said:

OK what if we call them efties instead? Based on newt salamanders's eft stage and the puppies. That's the closest I could think of, that isn't a fish nor a frog nor a water living larva that could be considered related to merms, but still a sort of "baby" amphibian stage to fit the critter theme.

That’s a great idea. Also, is there any hostile mobs that is also hostile to Wurt you think wouldn’t be overpowered to convert

Also, do you think I should’ve just made wurt and her follows stronger instead of give her the gnaw’s power

 

[NPCMaxwell]

29 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

That’s a great idea. Also, is there any hostile mobs that is also hostile to Wurt you think wouldn’t be overpowered to convert

Also, do you think I should’ve just made wurt and her follows stronger instead of give her the gnaw’s power

 

What about Batilisks, if you continue going with the "cave" theme (instead of depth worms). I don't know I like the idea of the gnaw, but if it keeps being too complicated you could just do that instead.

[Dr.Webber]

1 hour ago, NPCMaxwell said:

What about Batilisks, if you continue going with the "cave" theme (instead of depth worms). I don't know I like the idea of the gnaw, but if it keeps being too complicated you could just do that instead.

Ok I’ll try to think of something for the batilisks well I do that could you help me with the parts of the Winona alignments  that I need help with?

[NPCMaxwell]

58 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Ok I’ll try to think of something for the batilisks well I do that could you help me with the parts of the Winona alignments  that I need help with?

I doubt I can since I haven't even played with Winona myself yet (I don't really like to hear her "voice" all the time). Though I could try from a general POV like I did for the wurt part. (I haven't played as Wurt either since I don't own her, but I still like the idea of a merm survivor a lot)

[Dr.Webber]

37 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

I doubt I can since I haven't even played with Winona myself yet (I don't really like to hear her "voice" all the time). Though I could try from a general POV like I did for the wurt part. (I haven't played as Wurt either since I don't own her, but I still like the idea of a merm survivor a lot)

Yeah from a general point of view help me make the alinements more reflective of each other 

[NPCMaxwell]

OK I don't know enough about the winona gameplay behind this but my thoughts were those: (your post in bold)

build a object to reveal hidden traces of shadow magic.                                          
crafting recipe: goggles, dark petals(temporary Please tell me something better to put here) <- Maybe a tophat / magigican's tophat in addition to the dark petals? (I mean the resulting in-game object could be a /steampunk/-like tophat with attached goggles in combination.)

(Integrated discloser (A mouth integrated into a rosebud that can tell you about things through), briarwire, pure horror(temporary Please tell me something better to put here) +unstable apparitions shadow equivalent to unstable projections)  <- what exactly is this thing mouth's use in game? I mean, is it worth the pure horror part of the receipt? (I have only ever crafted pure horror with Wilson so far so I don't know how hard it is to obtain without him)

portahole(shadow equivalent to the teleportation station when used it creates a hole in the ground that you proof into like how Maxwell did in DS) <- this is refering to the NPC Maxwell disappearing I suppose. Which I like as an idea. (especially if the sound was included too) But what exactly will it do different then the teleportation station? Or is this thing closer in function to a wormhole so that you place them somewhere in the world but in a portable-way (being able to move the position and carry them around)? (I don't know anything about this teleportation function from Winona yet, sorry, only that they exist but since I don't play her I haven't seen them in game yet) Also it would be fun if the animation instead was similar to the shadow-hands-grabbing-you from the animation when the player gets caught to be placed on the nightmare chair for example. (just an idea, but maybe this would be too "violent" for winona...or not machine-like enough so maybe not)

 

 

EDIT: I also think ALL those crafts of her should require gears, for the sake of being literally CRAFTED by a handywoman.

[Dr.Webber]

5 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

crafting recipe: goggles, dark petals(temporary Please tell me something better to put here) <- Maybe a tophat / magigican's tophat in addition to the dark petals? (I mean the resulting in-game object could be a /steampunk/-like tophat with attached goggles in combination.)

Only the dark pedals are temporary I’m looking for something that has the same number of letters as scrap or electric doodad

 

5 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

(Integrated discloser (A mouth integrated into a rosebud that can tell you about things through), briarwire, pure horror(temporary Please tell me something better to put here) +unstable apparitions shadow equivalent to unstable projections)  <- what exactly is this thing mouth's use in game? I mean, is it worth the pure horror part of the receipt? (I have only ever crafted pure horror with Wilson so far so I don't know how hard it is to obtain without him)

 It’s not a recipe

Integrated discloser= Charlie equivalent of the calibrated perceiver

Briarwire= Charlie equivalent of doohickeys(though I am starting to reconsider it so maybe help me think of a replacement)

pure horror=isn’t a good equivalent of scrap Training help thinking of another one for this one it has to exist in the game

Unstable apparition= Charlie equivalent to unstable transmission

i you don’t recognize the name of these watch this video:

https://youtu.be/XZ6DUjAG7uY?si=GadCM05xz_Zy7qvv
 

I also need help figuring out a gizmo equivalent and the craft equivalents

Wurt side note: I was thinking of converting slurpers got any ideas on why I should convert it to

[NPCMaxwell]

16 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Only the dark pedals are temporary I’m looking for something that has the same number of letters as scrap or electric doodad

 

 It’s not a recipe

Integrated discloser= Charlie equivalent of the calibrated perceiver

Briarwire= Charlie equivalent of doohickeys(though I am starting to reconsider it so maybe help me think of a replacement)

pure horror=isn’t a good equivalent of scrap Training help thinking of another one for this one it has to exist in the game

Unstable apparition= Charlie equivalent to unstable transmission

i you don’t recognize the name of these watch this video:

https://youtu.be/XZ6DUjAG7uY?si=GadCM05xz_Zy7qvv
 

I also need help figuring out a gizmo equivalent and the craft equivalents

Wurt side note: I was thinking of converting slurpers got any ideas on why I should convert it to

ok sadly I can't help with this one at all, atm, since I am not familiar enough with the Wagstaff part of the game yet (I'm too busy working on my custom character mod to actually play the lunar path). I only remember Charlie's part of it, although I don't remember her asking for tools like Wagstaff, only the shadowhand wanting dreadstones instead. But maybe I confuse something here. I haven't read enough about the beta to know if they are going to expand on Charlie or something and make her have an exact counterpart of the Wagstaff part with the exact same mechanics, but I also don't have the time to watch this video you linked now (also I tried and the person is talking too fast for me to focus, it's giving me a headache.) so I hope someone else will be able to help you with the Winona skilltree part here. About wurt: The slurpers are actually a nice idea, since as far as I remember they are already considered "pets" in the game code (at least I think so?) but I don't have any real ideas for this here atm.

[Dr.Webber]

3 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

ok sadly I can't help with this one at all, atm, since I am not familiar enough with the Wagstaff part of the game yet (I'm too busy working on my custom character mod to actually play the lunar path). I only remember Charlie's part of it, although I don't remember her asking for tools like Wagstaff, only the shadowhand wanting dreadstones instead. But maybe I confuse something here. I haven't read enough about the beta to know if they are going to expand on Charlie or something and make her have an exact counterpart of the Wagstaff part with the exact same mechanics, but I also don't have the time to watch this video you linked now (also I tried and the person is talking too fast for me to focus, it's giving me a headache.) so I hope someone else will be able to help you with the Winona skilltree part here. About wurt: The slurpers are actually a nice idea, since as far as I remember they are already considered "pets" in the game code (at least I think so?) but I don't have any real ideas for this here atm.

The alignments actually  give stuff to Winona and they don’t trend to give the exact same things I’ve noticed that klei kinda has a problem with picking a lain On whether or not there just opposing forces or they’re supposed to marry each other like kind of do it halfway and  than just biff it

[NPCMaxwell]

6 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

What does ATM mean?

at the moment. I wrote "at the moment" since I am too busy to help with this as long as I work on my mod, but maybe I can help in future, when I have more time to actually /play/ dst again. (I really want to explore the Wagstaff lunar path in future so I understand this part of the game more, because for now I only know about this one from reading about it in the forum and a handfull images)

[Dr.Webber]

18 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

at the moment. I wrote "at the moment" since I am too busy to help with this as long as I work on my mod, but maybe I can help in future, when I have more time to actually /play/ dst again. (I really want to explore the Wagstaff lunar path in future so I understand this part of the game more, because for now I only know about this one from reading about it in the forum and a handfull images)

Actually realize that and went to edit the message so let me know your response to the now edited message

Also, what do you think the converted frogs should do?

Also, I was thinking it over and efties does it really roll off the tongue so unfortunately, it’s back to the drawing board with that one I’ll keep you posted

Also, I am having trouble thinking of a good conversion for the batilisk 

First, I was thinking, fat bat and have a be like a storage container, sorta thing They couldn’t think of anything fish like or gnaw like(physically putting crap in your mouth is totally gnaw like)

[NPCMaxwell]

42 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

The alignments actually  give stuff to Winona and they don’t trend to give the exact same things I’ve noticed that klei kinda has a problem with picking a lain On whether or not there just opposing forces or they’re supposed to marry each other like kind of do it halfway and  than just biff it

*insert sad maxwell speech files / maxwell throne death scream here if Wagstaff and Charlie end up getting married to each other*  *caugh sorry sorry intense shipper over here it was just a funny image I had inside my mind when reading that.* I seriously hope Wagstaff and Charlie are and will stay opposits, as long as the lunar vs shadow gameplay paths exist at least. About Winona, ok I get she is getting stuff, but I suppose I was too confused about the mentioned parallels between the current Wagstaff and Charlie items mentioned. So Winona will RECEIVE the tools, not Charlie will use them. OK it makes way much more sense now. Though as I haven't made much content with Wagstaff in game yet, it means I still can't quite figure out what the Winona tools (Charlie editions of Wagstaff tools) will do exactly gameplay wise. I hope I got the right idea about this now, though. Which I would appreciate from the /theme/ since Winona should deserve having advanced Wagstaff-like tools the further she progresses with her abilities.

Then about the frogs: Oh dear I have NO idea! It was just the frogs that came into my mind because you asked for what could be a follower. I didn't actually think about /what/ in particular they should do, besides usual frog behaviour. Though now that I think of it, I wonder if the follower frogs could maybe "collect" items that was dropped by their targets [in case they attacked someone/something with an inventory that is able of dropping stuff when attacked / dying ] with their tongues though and hand them over to Wurt like shadowservants do to Maxwell [that means that frogs should only have one inventory slot as well with picking up should be the same as the tongue-lick-attack animation.]

I really love the efties idea the most of all those though, since it came to my mind rather surprisingly by thinking of what forms of juvenile creatures I could think of based on real animals. I hope "roll-of-the-tongue" term doesn't mean anything negative in that case. But of course this is up to you to decide if you want to work with my efties idea.

I am laughing at your description of the fat bat storage in comparison to the neverending hunger of the gnaw x) But yes, theme wise I wouldn't quite know what to add either,.......well unless maybe since gnaw resembles a wormhole, follower bats could be "summoned" [being spat out by the wormhole] when being near them. But then this seems a bit too random even for me. [or is it?]

 

 

[Dr.Webber]

51 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

*insert sad maxwell speech files / maxwell throne death scream here if Wagstaff and Charlie end up getting married to each other*  *caugh sorry sorry intense shipper over here it was just a funny image I had inside my mind when reading that.* I seriously hope Wagstaff and Charlie are and will stay opposits, as long as the lunar vs shadow gameplay paths exist at least. About Winona, ok I get she is getting stuff, but I suppose I was too confused about the mentioned parallels between the current Wagstaff and Charlie items mentioned. So Winona will RECEIVE the tools, not Charlie will use them. OK it makes way much more sense now. Though as I haven't made much content with Wagstaff in game yet, it means I still can't quite figure out what the Winona tools (Charlie editions of Wagstaff tools) will do exactly gameplay wise. I hope I got the right idea about this now, though. Which I would appreciate from the /theme/ since Winona should deserve having advanced Wagstaff-like tools the further she progresses with her abilities

The things It would make:

the Charlie equipment of W.I.N.bot

the Charlie equivalent of the teleportation station

the Charlie equivalent of the portasol 

The Integrated discloser just like the Calibrated preceiver Will let you know anything‘s crafting recipe you use it on

This isn’t Charlie stuff but it’s another thing for equal reflection: 

The Wagstaff equivalent of the fragile rose

Charlie also won’t attack you With this skill but it explained away by  Wagstaff telling Charlie The reason he’s using alters power is because he’s  exploiting  it rather than work for it

51 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

Then about the frogs: Oh dear I have NO idea! It was just the frogs that came into my mind because you asked for what could be a follower. I didn't actually think about /what/ in particular they should do, besides usual frog behaviour. Though now that I think of it, I wonder if the follower frogs could maybe "collect" items that was dropped by their targets [in case they attacked someone/something with an inventory that is able of dropping stuff when attacked / dying ] with their tongues though and hand them over to Wurt like shadowservants do to Maxwell [that means that frogs should only have one inventory slot as well with picking up should be the same as the tongue-lick-attack animation.]

Genius 

 

51 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

I really love the efties idea the most of all those though, since it came to my mind rather surprisingly by thinking of what forms of juvenile creatures I could think of based on real animals. I hope "roll-of-the-tongue" term doesn't mean anything negative in that case. But of course this is up to you to decide if you want to work with my efties idea.

 

What I meant to say is it doesn’t roll off the tongue So that’s why I’m rethinking it

 

51 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

 

I am laughing at your description of the fat bat storage in comparison to the neverending hunger of the gnaw x) But yes, theme wise I wouldn't quite know what to add either,.......well unless maybe since gnaw resembles a wormhole, follower bats could be "summoned" [being spat out by the wormhole] when being near them. But then this seems a bit too random even for me. [or is it?]

Maybe not quiet like that, but I think it’s the start of something pretty great

I was also thinking what if  the bat’s ability had something to do with the power of the bat bat

[NPCMaxwell]

Why did my terrible brain just imagine beating the poor bat into submission with a torn of wing of his fellow bat? ;; I have the worst mind.

But of course you probably meant fatbat becoming more useful with each successful batbat use which is a big YAY! Juuuuust....what boost it could provide exactly I don't have an idea for right now (maybe sanity aura?) (if only there was something like an INSANITY aura that would lower a fictional sanity threshold for mobs (like pigs show low sanity / happy mood behaviour/animations) which when getting low enough makes them panic or pacified into submission / stunned or asleep for non agressive mobs for a short amount of time)

[Dr.Webber]

45 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

 

Why did my terrible brain just imagine beating the poor bat into submission with a torn of wing of his fellow bat? ;; I have the worst mind

 

Hahahahahaheheheheheeahhaahahahaaha

48 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

But of course you probably meant fatbat becoming more useful with each successful batbat use which is a big YAY! Juuuuust....what boost it could provide exactly I don't have an idea for right now (maybe sanity aura?) (if only there was something like an INSANITY aura that would lower a fictional sanity threshold for mobs (like pigs show low sanity / happy mood behaviour/animations) which when getting low enough makes them panic or pacified into submission / stunned or asleep for non agressive mobs for a short amount of time)

That insanity aura thing would be an interesting idea

but what I meant was, they acting sorrel our support class, leeching health from enemies while giving health to us But that may be too similar to the idea that I had for slurpers where they leach, hunger or health from enemies and give it to you as hunger

[NPCMaxwell]

16 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Hahahahahaheheheheheeahhaahahahaaha

That insanity aura thing would be an interesting idea

but what I meant was, they acting sorrel our support class, leeching health from enemies while giving health to us But that may be too similar to the idea that I had for slurpers where they leach, hunger or health from enemies and give it to you as hunger

I would have said it could "leach" a fictional shadow-level-y thingie similar modifier based on a fictional tier of dangerrank/shadowrank/lunarrank of the entity (or "creepiness" as a global alternative) which if course would have to be defined first. Something like damage-creature-does (small negative value for non-attacking mobs to make killing e.g. bunnies or butterflies pointless for this bonus) some mathematical equation + "creepiness" (so e.g. beardling get a TINY positive value for their creepiness only) = addition (or substration in case of super innocent critter) to the damage multiplier in level stages

[Dr.Webber]

1 hour ago, NPCMaxwell said:

I would have said it could "leach" a fictional shadow-level-y thingie similar modifier based on a fictional tier of dangerrank/shadowrank/lunarrank of the entity (or "creepiness" as a global alternative) which if course would have to be defined first. Something like damage-creature-does (small negative value for non-attacking mobs to make killing e.g. bunnies or butterflies pointless for this bonus) some mathematical equation + "creepiness" (so e.g. beardling get a TINY positive value for their creepiness only) = addition (or substration in case of super innocent critter) to the damage multiplier in level stages

I was thinking of the converted pound fish name and the best I could come up with is fishfrog if you have a better name, let me know

[Dr.Webber]

11 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

I was thinking of the converted pound fish name and the best I could come up with is fishfrog if you have a better name, let me know

I thought of a better one frog-ish fish

[NPCMaxwell]

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

I thought of a better one frog-ish fish

Yes frog-ish fish sounds very Don't Starve like to me :3

[Dr.Webber]

19 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

Yes frog-ish fish sounds very Don't Starve like to me :3

How do you think this would work with bright eyed frogs

So I was thinking of replacing  Batilisks and slurpers with charged volt goats(/normal volt goats maybe) and  werepigs do you think that would be too overpowered