Make Wonkey a normal character - like Wurt but for pirate monkeys

[Mortalbane]

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you can just not go to moon quay after realising that they're there and going away from them, drowning them or letting them steal grass/twigs

Or we can keep telling Klei that it sux, until they fix it and make it interesting/rewarding/less annoying at least. Instead of using the "classic solution": don't like - don't use.

Also, this thread is not about how monkey raids are bad and how you fail to prove otherwise, it is about Wonkey being a normal selectable character

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Or we can keep telling Klei that it sux, until they fix it and make it interesting/rewarding/less annoying at least. Instead of using the "classic solution": don't like - don't use

what's the problem with them? a stash spawns if you get robbed and you get their loot without curse if you drown them, those are the rewards, if they're bad, then why did you even come there? you could've got astral detector to go directly to stuff that you want instead of going to random places if you didn't want to interact with them

8 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

how you fail to prove otherwise

no one still said why are they bad, you get options to avoid them, get their loot without curse or get their loot with curse and just go to moon quay since it's nearby, you also don't need to interact with them if you don't want to, i haven't had them spawn when just doing CC questline yet

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

and i have said how the whole monkey stuff is badly designed, and you still came

Can I please just for the love of everything that holding my sanity together… can I please ask what the difference between Monkey Pirate Raids & RockJaw Sharks are?

Because in my experience both mobs have disappointing rewards & aren’t worth fighting, both jump on the deck of your boat to troll you.. and both are meant to give you some sort of present danger/challenge while out on the water.

So then I must ask.. what exactly is such bad game design with pirate raids? Is it the fact that they only spawn when you’re ridiculously close to their island? Or maybe it’s the fact that they punish you for killing then by turning you into a Monkey? A monkey which if you happen to be playing as… no longer gets stollen from and robbed blind by like minded monkeys.

Is it bad game design that you can fire pirate canons to threaten and scare off incoming pirate invaders? Or maybe it’s bad game design that these invaders can be “stollen” from without attacking them by pickpocketing them with pirate gear?

Perhaps you just dislike needing to use a shovel to dig up X marks on the ground to recover not just what monkeys stole from you, but also what they’ve pillaged around for themselves?

Maybe you just dislike needing to invade their base of operations in the dead of night while they’re all sleeping to steal away all the resources you want from Moon Quay without getting jumped and robbed blind in the process?

I mean you welcome to have your opinion… but I wouldn’t call something with so many layers of gameplay revolving around interacting with them, to be “bad game design”

[xhyom]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

what exactly is such bad game design with pirate raids?

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Because in my experience both mobs have disappointing rewards & aren’t worth fighting

 

[Mortalbane]

Ok, if you guys fail to read what people say, or if you can read but still can't understand why monkey raids are considered bad, let me explain.

1. They give you no warning, like every other dangerous thing in the game does.

2. If you are not Willow or carrying pan flute or whatever, your only choice is to get robbed or get trinkets. Which of those choices are good or fun? Especially if you are not planning to go to Quay, or waste time searching for your stolen loot.

3. They break your sails, which sux - no questions asked.

4. When you kill a raid, you end up with a pile of useless junk as your reward.

5. Sailing and fighting on boats in its current state is already bad, it doesn't require to be made worse by those raids.

6. I barely have space on the boat to fit those cannons or whatever, it cannot possibly be fun with current boat size.

7. Also, i want the raids, i want pirate monkeys, i want to play as Wonkey and be their captain, but i have all the above instead.

[Primalflower]

1 minute ago, Mortalbane said:

They give you no warning, like every other dangerous thing in the game does.

your character will tell you and you will hear an audible and distinct noise before it happens ala hounds

1 minute ago, Mortalbane said:

They break your sails, which sux - no questions asked.

ive only ever had them hammer chests just to get at whatevers inside, but in any case i strongly recommend you dont rely on sails for locomotion

[xhyom]

3 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

6. Also, i want the raids, i want pirate monkeys, i want to play as Wonkey and be their captain, but i have all the above instead.

If there were boats to be attacked and plundered it would be really cool, gameplay entirely focused on surviving at sea would bring a very different charm to wonkey (But he's still absurdly ugly)

[Mortalbane]

1 minute ago, Primalflower said:

i strongly recommend you dont rely on sails for locomotion

Sure, not relying on sails at sea is the answer. Not fixing the actual problem

1 minute ago, xhyom said:

If there were boats to be attacked and plundered it would be really cool, gameplay entirely focused on surviving at sea would bring a very different charm to wonkey (But he's still absurdly ugly)

Only more reasons for Klei to rework him into normal character - to make and sell awesome skins

[lowercase skye]

8 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

3. They break your sails, which sux - no questions asked.

they haven't done that since like week 1 of the beta. that's just not a thing that they do

[Primalflower]

Just now, Mortalbane said:

Sure, not relying on sails at sea is the answer. Not fixing the actual problem

i love the moon quay and i love the ocean but i agree i think pirate raids are unintuitive and suck, they should be changed so fighting them doesnt involve so much tanking and hell maybe even make it so they dont drop trinkets when you kill them so they're purely a boon if you manage to get rid of them and not a tradeoff.

However my opinions on this do not converge with my thought about sails on the sea. Sails are good for when you set up a boat or "ferry" from strictly point A to point B, not as much for generally existing on the ocean i think the wooden oar gives the average player the wrong impression about oars. Driftwood oars & malbatross bills are all i ever use to get around on the ocean, as they are very fast, very controllable, doing well with fine adjustments or huge swathes of one direction. Try not to rely on sails too much out there, as overreliance is a big part of why the ocean feels sluggish for many

[Mortalbane]

Just now, finn from human said:

they haven't done that since like week 1 of the beta. that's just not a thing that they do

I guess monkeys were not informed about that, because i lost my sails literally yesterday

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Ok, if you guys fail to read what people say

you can't write without causing disgust but we aren't constantly pointing that out

7 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

1. They give you no warning, like every other dangerous thing in the game does

quote and sound?

7 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

2. If you are not Willow or carrying pan flute or whatever, your only choice is to get robbed or get trinkets. Which of those choices are good or fun? Especially if you are not planning to go to Quay, or waste time searching for your stolen loot

just don't go to moon quay if you don't consider moon quay loot as a reward?

8 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

3. They break your sails, which sux - no questions asked

prevent them from doing that by killing/sleeping/igniting/freezing them?

10 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

4. When you kill a raid, you end up with a pile of useless junk as your reward

don't do that or go to moon quay since you already came close to it?

10 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

5. Sailing and fighting on boats in its current state is already bad, it doesn't require to be made worse by those raids

idk about sails since i use oars but why is fighting bad if you don't get anything that jumps onto your boat and follows you while attacking except easy and preventable stuff?

11 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

6. I barely have space on the boat to fit those cannons or whatever, it cannot possibly be fun with current boat size

you don't need them

[Mortalbane]

2 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

Try not to rely on sails too much out there, as overreliance is a big part of why the ocean feels sluggish for many

Don't you sense the bad design smell coming through your words? Go tell sailors that they should only use ores. Go tell pirate movie makers that they should cut all the sails scenes and replace them with ores

[lowercase skye]

2 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

I guess monkeys were not informed about that, because i lost my sails literally yesterday

checked for the specific update and yeah I was slightly off about this: they'll destroy (non-malbatross) masts unless you heave them up first. still a very preventable problem though

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Mortalbane said:

Don't you sense the bad design smell coming through your words? Go tell sailors that they should only use ores. Go tell pirate movie makers that they should cut all the sails scenes and replace them with ores

why on earth does the game need to include stuff from movies? sails being bad is a problem but not because using oars isn't similar in comparison to movies

[lowercase skye]

3 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Go tell sailors that they should only use ores. Go tell pirate movie makers that they should cut all the sails scenes and replace them with ores

i saw someone throw spears in a movie once. what gives, klei?

[Mortalbane]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you don't need them

Yeah, yeah, you don't need, don't go, don't do - those are all your solutions. You are repeating yourself, while also turning to personal attacks.
I won't waste a word on you again.

[Primalflower]

1 minute ago, Mortalbane said:

Don't you sense the bad design smell coming through your words? Go tell sailors that they should only use ores. Go tell pirate movie makers that they should cut all the sails scenes and replace them with ores

 You came in to the section of the game with a pre-installed idea of what it was going to be like and got disappointed when it wasn't like that. A pancake is not a poor meal just because when you bit into it you were closing your eyes and expecting spaghetti. Viking ships are well known for consisting largely of rows of oars with sails as backup to that force. Thats exactly what im suggesting here. Just dont *rely* on sails as much. 

[Mortalbane]

1 minute ago, finn from human said:

i saw someone throw spears in a movie once. what gives, klei?

Actually Wigfrid could have such skill, but instead she has beefalo perks.

 

Oh guys, why do i have to explain that pirate movies is a good example...

1 minute ago, Primalflower said:

Viking ships are well known for consisting largely of rows of oars

Man, you literally post a picture with a sail. Also, those are pirate viking monkeys that we have? Didn't know

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

while also turning to personal attacks

i haven't? that was just a reminder to not say stuff that's clearly only meant to annoy whoever's reading

3 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

You are repeating yourself

because you ignored it the 1st time?

5 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Yeah, yeah, you don't need, don't go, don't do - those are all your solutions

i've mentioned solutions that included doing something but you've said that they're a waste of time, so i suggested less time consuming stuff

[Primalflower]

Hahahaha

[lowercase skye]

5 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Man, you literally post a picture with a sail.

5 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

Viking ships are well known for consisting largely of rows of oars with sails as backup to that force.

???

[Mike23Ua]

27 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Ok, if you guys fail to read what people say, or if you can read but still can't understand why monkey raids are considered bad, let me explain.

1. They give you no warning, like every other dangerous thing in the game does.

2. If you are not Willow or carrying pan flute or whatever, your only choice is to get robbed or get trinkets. Which of those choices are good or fun? Especially if you are not planning to go to Quay, or waste time searching for your stolen loot.

3. They break your sails, which sux - no questions asked.

4. When you kill a raid, you end up with a pile of useless junk as your reward.

5. Sailing and fighting on boats in its current state is already bad, it doesn't require to be made worse by those raids.

6. I barely have space on the boat to fit those cannons or whatever, it cannot possibly be fun with current boat size.

7. Also, i want the raids, i want pirate monkeys, i want to play as Wonkey and be their captain, but i have all the above instead.

Sure I’ll take a crack at this list-

1- Character specific quote, unique YarrHarr audio sound of their soon to be arrival, and its own battle music sound that starts. If that’s not a clue of what’s coming.. then I don’t know what is.

2- Killing Monkey Pirates grants the player accursed Trinkets, you can do several things that counters this, the first and most obvious thing is to fill up your entire inventory so that Cursed trinkets can’t find a spot in your inventory to allocate themselves. The second counter is to simply be mindful of how many monkeys you’ve killed to prevent turning into Wonkey, any Wortox player should be highly familiar with not exceeding the cap on something held in inventory least Ye suffer the consequences. Pirate “Rob” you with the Wooden Cutless, which isn’t a weapon designed to harm… but rather to “steal” a weapon you should probably be using to steal back your stollen loot rather than trying to kill every pirate monkey you come across.

3- Pirate monkeys break sails, sails are expensive, there’s no arguments on that behalf, however… pirate monkeys also drop figgy tree jam to repair the very same boat leaks they caused by breaking your mast in the first place. It’s probably a good idea not to go near moon quay with masts on your boat, or to at the very least… bring spares after freaking PIRATES board your ship, pillage your loot and attempt to send your boat to a watery grave by tarnishing your sails and leaving you to meet davey Jones locker.

4- the solution to 4, is to actually not kill the raid, by using either Cutless to steal back what’s stolen from you and NOT kill the monkeys, to let them steal from you and then you find and dig it back up with a shovel (alongside anything else they may have stolen that wasn’t yours) to bribe them away with letting them take bananas or to fire canons in their direction and scare them away..

5- sailing and fighting on a boat is a work in progress, but ironically… pirate raids were designed to have so many other solutions besides fighting.

6- I’m sorry this is a personal issue more than anything… I highly doubt Klei designed the games boats to become personal bases with every structure you can conceivably place upon it, and in fact if you watch todays dev stream I’ll be willing to bet you the devs will be using the mostly empty and clutter free decks of boats to demonstrate the new upcoming content… in my opinion, if it isn’t a structure that is found under the dedicated seafaring tab, it probably doesn’t belong on your boat… so this is more of a personal problem more than it is a game design one.

7- Playing as Wonkey does not make you the pirate captain king or whatever, Wonkey simply removes the players ability to use their character specific abilities or skill tree perks and turns them into a slightly better version of Wes, for Wes mains… Wonkey is an ingame buff. The only actual real issue I have with becoming Wonkey… is how finding moon quay island at all can be like searching for a needle in a Haystack, the island is far too tiny and small and miss-able.  

40 minutes ago, xhyom said:

If there were boats to be attacked and plundered it would be really cool, gameplay entirely focused on surviving at sea would bring a very different charm to wonkey (But he's still absurdly ugly)

So uhh not sure if you knew this, but Wonkey is actually customizable! 

See mine? He has a white winter fur belly! I used one of Wortox’s chests to create that look for him, sadly you can not customize his hands, head, or feet though, so this is the best your going to get until Klei allows more Wonkey cosmetic options. 

[Mortalbane]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Sure I’ll take a crack at this list

Instead, your arguments took a crack. What you've said does not counter anything i've said.
Except the paragraph about warnings, and i should correct myself - they not "not give you warning", but what i meant was that said warning is not enough. It's not like i can immediately turn around and run in the opposite direction, like i would do on land.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

Instead, your arguments took a crack. What you've said does not counter anything i've said.
Except the paragraph about warnings, and i should correct myself - they not "not give you warning", but what i meant was that said warning is not enough. It's not like i can immediately turn around and run in the opposite direction, like i would do on land.

No.. but what you CAN do is drop everything your doing, drop all your loot into storage boxes on your boat or just on the floor of your boat, build a small grass raft, and a driftwood oar, abandon your boat and paddle out to sea to encounter the impending pirates.

Or… you could just carry bananas on your boat so they steal them and go away.