Wigfrid's Skill Spotlight Revisited

[JimmCee]

Hey folks, here I stand for the first time with some considerations in regards of the recent Skill Spotlight Beta. Willow seems to be on a very consistent way and I haven't tested myself just yet (and might not even do so), but Wigfrid seems a little bit off, so I decided to write some things down trying to put the character back on track. Some of the guidelines includes trying to keep her as fresh as possible and not overpower the skills, since other characters must still outperform, but fix the reliability and logic behind unlocking and using the skilltree across all stages of the game. The red text is the current state of the skill, while the green one is for the improved version. Feel free to write down your opinions the same way I'm doing on this thread. And as always you can catch me on Twitch every now and then streaming some Don't Starve Together.

HEADLINER

• Fighting Words
• Battle Call Canister
• Encore

Mystic Resilience (+5 Planar Defense) = Mystic Strenght (+15 Planar Damage to Planar Weapons). This one can be tweaked between the +5 and +15 Planar Damage for balance reasons and even adjusted to work only if the Inspiration meter is above a certain level. It is a mirror of Wolfgang's "Mighty" branch, but still weaker. Would help Wigfrid to be enjoyable with hardmode content and perform better against annoyances such as Deadly Brightshades or mutated creatures.

• Mystic Resilience

ARSENAL

• Bragi's Blessing I (Little increase of Inspiration gain with Battle Spears) = (Doubled Inspiration Gained with Battle Spears).
• Bragi's Blessing II (Fair increase of Inspiration gain with Battle Spears) = (Tripled Inspiration Gained with Battle Spears). Both Bragi's Blessing skills should incentivize players to use the Battle Songs even with basic mob fighting scenarios. The fact you only gain more Inspiration using the spears is okay since it turns the Battle Spear into a must carry item, such as Wolfgang with the Dumbells.
• Lightning Spear (Lightning Spear Crafting) = (Lightning Spear Crafting + Lightning Spear Repair Kit). The purpose of the second craft is to improve the player oportunity to repair the spear since it takes not one but two Volt Goat Horns and even the Restrained Static on it's second upgrade, and keep Wigfrid hostage of the dash to repair is not as reliable as so.
• Elding Spear
• Hard Helm I
• Hard Helm II
• Commander's Helm
• Lightning Spear Enhancement I (Unlocks the Dash) = (Unlocks the Dash, but it no longer repairs the spear). As it is written above, with a repair kit avaliable for crafting, there is no need for this feature to be here.
• Elding Spear Enhancement I
• Elding Spear Enhancement II
• Commander's helm Enhancement I
• Commander's helm Enhancement II

(The Commander's Helm and the Lightning Spear should have a set bonus added to it. As it stands now, there's no reason to use those items once you get the Brightshade or Void sets. Unlike the Woodie special craftings, Wigfrid skilltree looks way more dependent of spending skillpoints on this branch of the tree, and it would be reasonable to consider a weaker bonus for equipping the helm and the spear instead of the other hardmode sets just for the better).

• Battle Rönd
• Battle Rönd Enhancement I
• Battle Rönd Enhancement II (+10 damage on a hit after a successful block) = (+50% damage on a hit with the shield after a successful block). This change will make players stick to the shield instead of switching weapons during combat. Since it's damage is not as powerful as a Dark Sword, for example, it's okay to give it a single double-damage-hit after a block.
• Battle Rönd Enhancement II

(Here would be nice to have the shield crafting skill independent of the helm and spear ones, or at least more easy to reach. Now it is way down the branch, and it is not a consistent crafting option for mid-late game considering the amount of points you have to spend on previous skills).

RIDER

• Noble Mount I
• Noble Mount II
• Noble Mount III (Beefalo hit while mounted deals +10 Planar Damage) = (Beefalo hit while mounted deals +25 Planar Damage). This is a hard one. Using the Beef to fight mobs and bosses with Planar stats is really difficult. It might sound too much, but this skill must translate into a better risk/reward concept. Wigfrid already have a lot of ways to battle by herself, be it with the arsenal craftings, the Inspiration and Battle Songs or even with existing ingame gear options. To be worth it, the Beefalo could deal more damage to convince players to ride it into battle.
• Noble Mount III
• Battle Saddle (20% move speed/5 bonus damage/40% protection for Beefalos) = (35% move speed/8 bonus damage/40% protection for Beefalos). Here we could go for one of two sides: the speed is the same as the default Saddle or do the War Saddle's "25% move speed" with a little more damage other than the 5 points. For Wigfrid with the Rider branch of the skilltree this saddle can be the best Saddle, but for the other characters in the party it will be a viable option if you take too much damage while mounted and wanna sacrifice some move speed or some damage in order to keep your Beef friend alive.

AFFINITY

• Shadow Chanteuse
• Lunar Melodist

Those skills are also kinda complicated to attend to. As they are now, it's kinda lame to spend one of the three spikes of Inspiration for the 5% buff on each allegiance. Either we do a more powerfull buff (somewhere between 10-15%, still weaker than Wolfgang) or turn the Battle Songs into the Inspiration/Cooldown cost version of itself. For instance: the Dark Lament/Enlightened Lullaby buffs Wigfrid and allies with for 30 seconds with a cooldown of 30 seconds.

Quick edits: the Battle Saddle has been updated, more in line but still not optimal. The same goes to the Enlightened Lullaby and Dark Lament that now provide 10% damage reduction to allegiance mobs (this is better, but I still want the 10% on damage aswell). The Battle Rönd is really neat now, even though I'm still bothered on the fact you'll abandon such weapon once the hardmode activates. I decided to give up on the Mystic Resilience for it seems Klei is looking for more "defensive Wigfrid" than "offensive Wigfrid", and that is perfectly fine. Still wanna see how the new Elding Spear will perform, but on this first hotfix already looks better.

[Swiyss]

Amazing. You are insane, that feedback is almost everything that needed to be adressed.

Now I do think that some things here should not be changed the way you did. For instance, the noble mount III should not deal 25 PLANAR damage. That is way to much, something like 20% increased base damage + 10/12 planar damage would be better based on early game monsters and late game ones. 25 planar would just make her as a character (not everyone) better in a beefalo in way too many ways. So I say maybe transfer that to the saddle, instead of keeping to her.

But if kept on her, others should atleast recieve 12 planar on saddles in some way through her OR through normal crafting ways.

Maybe 20% is also too much haha. But we'll see.

[Yuuko]

I think repair kits are feeling really bland and I'd like to not see another...  but you're absolutely right about the spear repairing during combat being too self-contained.  Its kinda funny b/c its turning into one of my biggest points during this beta.  Willow's lighter absorbed flame to refuel at first, but it becomes impossible to balance.  IF absorbing the flame pays off the cost to light it, then you just have infinite lighter.  If it doesn't, then the perk just doesn't work.  Same with the spear.  The repair proc is very weak, only repairing 3 hits.  The CD is much longer then it takes to attack 3 times... so you are still losing durability on an expensive weapon, it just slows down how fast it breaks.  Why not just give it more durability if it will break anyway?

The problem is that it is self-contained.  It needs more to the cycle then "attack to break" and "attack to repair."  I'm not sure what that could be, and really a repair kit is not a bad idea, but I wonder if there is something else that could work...

[EternalGrudge]

Jimm!!!! Nothing to add, just happy to see you!

[DirtWolf]

No repair from dashing on the spear is a hard nerf, dude. I'm not going to sit around and use a repair kit every so often in the middle of a boss fight lol. If you're not using her Weaponized Warble with this weapon during boss fights you're just doing it wrong.

[Your Chester]

wegfrid almost all battles do not require cattle, cattle plate can be replaced, into the sea battle bonus can also show the style of Viking!

[Jakepeng99]

20 hours ago, JimmCee said:

Mystic Resilience (+5 Planar Defense) = Mystic Strenght (+15 Planar Damage to Planar Weapons). This one can be tweaked between the +5 and +15 Planar Damage for balance reasons and even adjusted to work only if the Inspiration meter is above a certain level. It is a mirror of Wolfgang's "Mighty" branch, but still weaker. Would help Wigfrid to be enjoyable with hardmode content and perform better against annoyances such as Deadly Brightshades or muted creatures.

Wigfrid as never needed planar damage, the weapons are balanced with her and it makes her more unique, everything else is good though.

14 hours ago, DirtWolf said:

No repair from dashing on the spear is a hard nerf, dude. I'm not going to sit around and use a repair kit every so often in the middle of a boss fight lol. If you're not using her Weaponized Warble with this weapon during boss fights you're just doing it wrong.

Oh yeah this too.

[JimmCee]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wigfrid as never needed planar damage, the weapons are balanced with her and it makes her more unique, everything else is good though.

The way Wigfrid is now, there are no ways for her to reach a good spot on the hardmode. The Arsenal is just useful until you get a Brightshade/Void set. If the idea to put her on a level of strenght somehow similar to Wolfgang (wich has a skill for +25 Planar Damage, by the way) sounds too much, just go for a lower value. The important here is to give her good reasons to chase and equip the Planar sets.

16 hours ago, DirtWolf said:

No repair from dashing on the spear is a hard nerf, dude. I'm not going to sit around and use a repair kit every so often in the middle of a boss fight lol. If you're not using her Weaponized Warble with this weapon during boss fights you're just doing it wrong.

If you have any experience with the Brightshade/Void Repair Kit you'll know there are absolutely no problems on doing this. You'll eventually need to stop the fight to eat food, buff yourself or heal. As I said, the Battle Spears will eventually become tools to get Inspiration for the late game fights. Weaponized Warble is way better combo'ed with a Repair Kit instead of a "repair on dash" situation.

[Your Chester]

Support again!!!

[DirtWolf]

22 hours ago, JimmCee said:

If you have any experience with the Brightshade/Void Repair Kit you'll know there are absolutely no problems on doing this. You'll eventually need to stop the fight to eat food, buff yourself or heal. As I said, the Battle Spears will eventually become tools to get Inspiration for the late game fights. Weaponized Warble is way better combo'ed with a Repair Kit instead of a "repair on dash" situation.

Wigfrid hasn’t needed to stop midfight since she got her songs. She heals herself so much you’d need to make a lot of mistakes to need food healing, unless you’re fighting BQ.

 

I have no idea what spears for inspiration have to do with anything.

 

Weaponized Warble being better with repair kits doesn’t make any sense. If I can already repair my weapon to full with items, I’d rather use my inspiration slot for another song. It’s better with the spear’s current state because dash is the only way to repair an expensive weapon and if it breaks I need to craft it again.

 

And this is without mentioning repair kits for weapons are just boring. What makes the spear great is it rewards good gameplay with an infinite weapon. It rewards good gameplay to allow Wigfrid to start a fight and stop for nothing until either her or her opponent is dead and bleeding on the floor — you know, her preferred fighting philosophy. Why trade that for something that’s both boring and objectively worse in the middle of combat? I don’t get it

[SapoLover]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:43 PM, JimmCee said:

Both Bragi's Blessing skills should incentivise players to use the Battle Songs even with basic mob fighting scenarios. The fact you only gain more Inspiration using the spears is okay since it turns the Battle Spear into a must carry item, such as Wolfgang with the Dumbells.

My problem with those skills is that I find myself only using songs during long boss fights, where it doesn't matter if the inspiration is gained 3 times faster or 2 times slower. It doesn't make much difference. Even when fighting basic mobs, the natural health and sanity regen is enough to sustain yourself. I would rather prefer if they reworked those entirely, like inspiration draining slower to make losing the third buff less likely if you take a little break from the fight, giving spears increased durability, maybe even give a dash to the battle spear. The op stuff comes when you get the electric spear dash to one-shot spiders and frogs anyway.

I was thinking it would be good if the spear could be recharged by interacting with electricity on top of the dashes. Like getting struck by a lightning (increased chance to be hit with the spear on hand), attacking a charged lightning rod and hitting a charged voltgoat (you can charge them manually).

[black hole]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:55 AM, DirtWolf said:

Wigfrid hasn’t needed to stop midfight since she got her songs. She heals herself so much you’d need to make a lot of mistakes to need food healing, unless you’re fighting BQ.

 

I have no idea what spears for inspiration have to do with anything.

 

Weaponized Warble being better with repair kits doesn’t make any sense. If I can already repair my weapon to full with items, I’d rather use my inspiration slot for another song. It’s better with the spear’s current state because dash is the only way to repair an expensive weapon and if it breaks I need to craft it again.

 

And this is without mentioning repair kits for weapons are just boring. What makes the spear great is it rewards good gameplay with an infinite weapon. It rewards good gameplay to allow Wigfrid to start a fight and stop for nothing until either her or her opponent is dead and bleeding on the floor — you know, her preferred fighting philosophy. Why trade that for something that’s both boring and objectively worse in the middle of combat? I don’t get it

The premise for repairing this spear is that it needs to be upgraded. However, as you know, upgrading requires the hard-to-obtain Restrained Static, so by the time I can upgrade, I will have nearly completed most of the game. Do you expect me to go back and bully the spiders with an upgraded spear? And to repair the three spears that broke after defeating the Boss, it will take me a whole day (8 minutes)! I can't do anything else in a day except fight spiders! Is this the developer's intention? To call this "combat"? This is torture.

[Yuuko]

8 minutes ago, black hole said:

The premise for repairing this spear is that it needs to be upgraded. However, as you know, upgrading requires the hard-to-obtain Restrained Static, so by the time I can upgrade, I will have nearly completed most of the game. Do you expect me to go back and bully the spiders with an upgraded spear? And to repair the three spears that broke after defeating the Boss, it will take me a whole day (8 minutes)! I can't do anything else in a day except fight spiders! Is this the developer's intention? To call this "combat"? This is torture.

I think it is 150 hits for 100% durability.  If you use weapon song you get 182 attacks.

The dash repairs for 2% per target hit, and I think you can attack 6 times during cool down if you just hold F.  That is -4% then +2% against single target.  Essentially +50% durability, bringing us up to 273 attacks before it breaks.

I believe the weapon damage is like this: 59.5 * 1.25 wig mod + 20 planar = 94 damage.  273 uses + 45 (1/6 uses) dash attacks  = 29892 damage per spear.
(If you do less than 6 attacks between charge attacks you get more repairs making it better)

That falls short on a few bosses...  but it is quite a bit of damage.  You can repair it as you play, dash attacking birds as you travel, hitting groups like bees, etc but it does take some time and effort.  It is a unique interaction to repair on dash, but more importantly the restrained static is a bit more annoying to mass produce if you want to craft more...

Do you think it should repair more?  Deal more damage?  Have more uses?  Use a repair kit instead of the unique interaction?  What do you think would make this spear better?

(also I'm not 100% certain on my math, feel free to check me there.)

[BalkanCockroach]

40 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think it is 150 hits for 100% durability.  If you use weapon song you get 182 attacks.

The dash repairs for 2% per target hit, and I think you can attack 6 times during cool down if you just hold F.  That is -4% then +2% against single target.  Essentially +50% durability, bringing us up to 273 attacks before it breaks.

I believe the weapon damage is like this: 59.5 * 1.25 wig mod + 20 planar = 94 damage.  273 uses + 45 (1/6 uses) dash attacks  = 29892 damage per spear.
(If you do less than 6 attacks between charge attacks you get more repairs making it better)

That falls short on a few bosses...  but it is quite a bit of damage.  You can repair it as you play, dash attacking birds as you travel, hitting groups like bees, etc but it does take some time and effort.  It is a unique interaction to repair on dash, but more importantly the restrained static is a bit more annoying to mass produce if you want to craft more...

Do you think it should repair more?  Deal more damage?  Have more uses?  Use a repair kit instead of the unique interaction?  What do you think would make this spear better?

(also I'm not 100% certain on my math, feel free to check me there.)

They could make the weapon unbreakable at 0 percent that would be nice and buff the repair from dash. The trade off could make the base weapon more expensive like maybe a purple gem (cause lightning) and living logs instead of twigs. Or maybe it can reapir when hitting wet enemies but obviously way less than the dash.

[Arcwell]

19 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think it is 150 hits for 100% durability.  If you use weapon song you get 182 attacks.

The dash repairs for 2% per target hit, and I think you can attack 6 times during cool down if you just hold F.  That is -4% then +2% against single target.  Essentially +50% durability, bringing us up to 273 attacks before it breaks.

I believe the weapon damage is like this: 59.5 * 1.25 wig mod + 20 planar = 94 damage.  273 uses + 45 (1/6 uses) dash attacks  = 29892 damage per spear.
(If you do less than 6 attacks between charge attacks you get more repairs making it better)

That falls short on a few bosses...  but it is quite a bit of damage.  You can repair it as you play, dash attacking birds as you travel, hitting groups like bees, etc but it does take some time and effort.  It is a unique interaction to repair on dash, but more importantly the restrained static is a bit more annoying to mass produce if you want to craft more...

Do you think it should repair more?  Deal more damage?  Have more uses?  Use a repair kit instead of the unique interaction?  What do you think would make this spear better?

(also I'm not 100% certain on my math, feel free to check me there.)

2 things:

• Weaponized Warble allows for: 150 / .75 = 200 hits, not 182.
• Number of strikes between lunges is going to depend on the distance you need to walk/kite and/or the time you spend hitstunned. 6 would be the maximum assuming none of those happen (or 7 if you're animation cancelling). There is a considerable delay before and after lunge where you can't act, meaning spamming this both drops your DPS and makes kiting harder.

Personally, I think the biggest (and only) issue with the lightning spear is its durability. I would at least bump it up to 200 to be on par with battle spear. Probably also change the repair-on-lunge so that it doesn't require a refrained static, but that's a different story.

[black hole]

54 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think it is 150 hits for 100% durability.  If you use weapon song you get 182 attacks.

The dash repairs for 2% per target hit, and I think you can attack 6 times during cool down if you just hold F.  That is -4% then +2% against single target.  Essentially +50% durability, bringing us up to 273 attacks before it breaks.

I believe the weapon damage is like this: 59.5 * 1.25 wig mod + 20 planar = 94 damage.  273 uses + 45 (1/6 uses) dash attacks  = 29892 damage per spear.
(If you do less than 6 attacks between charge attacks you get more repairs making it better)

That falls short on a few bosses...  but it is quite a bit of damage.  You can repair it as you play, dash attacking birds as you travel, hitting groups like bees, etc but it does take some time and effort.  It is a unique interaction to repair on dash, but more importantly the restrained static is a bit more annoying to mass produce if you want to craft more...

Do you think it should repair more?  Deal more damage?  Have more uses?  Use a repair kit instead of the unique interaction?  What do you think would make this spear better?

(also I'm not 100% certain on my math, feel free to check me there.)

I think it's essential to have a repair kit before upgrading, or to increase the durability of the spear and speed up its durability recovery. In practical use, you can't use the weapon song when fighting small monsters, and to maintain the rhythm and timing, the spear's dash skill is not very useful when fighting many Boss. Frequent dashing to recover durability while fighting a Boss may leave me vulnerable and certainly take longer to defeat the boss.

[JimmCee]

For all of you guys: the post has been updated. Some of the skills are on a better spot, but still not optimal. Thank you all for the feedback so far, there are great ideas here in the comments and I'm glad to see you supporting the thread.