Impression and Suggestions! [lots of stuff]

[Sabboth]

Hey all of you Don't Starvers and developers, I'm Sabboth and I came into possession of Don't Starve through a trade on steam. I wound up loving the game at its current state so much that I bought the game from Steam to get the bundle. I promptly split the two copies between my girlfriend and another good friend of mine. I thought Don't Starve was a game worth sharing, and a game worth buying to support the developers.

I'm especially glad to hear that they consider the game being built upon using player feedback, I feel like I really have a reason to play and think about what could make the game better with the prospect of actually contributing. Most other games in beta don't really put you in that kind of position, and personally I wind up not giving any feedback under the impression that it doesn't really mean anything.

So here we go, my impressions:

I got a hold of the game November 9th so I experienced the game for the first time after Wilson's art had been redone, some artistic assets had been added and the UI updated, and many craft items had been introduced like spears and gold tools. Immediately, the first thing I noticed about the game as a whole was the visual style. I came in knowing that Klei Entertainment's previous titles were all extremely visually rich with focus on masterfully rendered 2D characters and worlds that are all fantastically animated. All of their games feel as if you're playing through an animated film, and with that, I was pleasantly surprised to see this approach in the art direction. It all still 'breaths' very much like a Klei game but has this overwhelming dark charm, something I would call off the top of my head "Tim Burton and the regally macabre". Those are just some of the first things that came to mind when I thought about the style of the game. The washed out colored sketch, to me, is appealing in the sense that it almost feels nostalgic in some strange way that I can't quite put my finger on. It almost reminds me of the illustrations on the cover of a Lemony Snicket book. When it comes to the visual aspects of the game, there's nothing I would change. Wilson and the supporting cast of playable characters are all very charming and endearing in a way. The audio is great and I love their way of speaking.

Concerning the game play, I'd like to mention that I had come to appreciate 'Survival' games through other titles such as Minecraft, Terraria, and more recently, DayZ Mod (and hopefully Soon, DayZ Standalone). I feel that most of the gaming community feels similarly about this, if they ever had any experience with a pure survival game, and it'll continue to be more accepting of this genre as more and more of these kinds of games continue to be developed. The advertisement of the perma-death system was especially appealing to me as I enjoy the added challenge after playing games like Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, ADOM, FTL, and various other rogue-like games. I understand that this extreme difficulty and consequence can still be off putting to many gamers though, but how else is the genre going to survive? The following gets bigger every day.

But less about me and more about Don't Starve. After starting the game, the lack of explanation was very refreshing and I immediately set out to gather supplies for the first night. Everything about the game so far behaves logically and in a way you would expect it, even in ways that you normally wouldn't think about initially but understand entirely when you notice it. Rabbits seek out carrots, birds peck at seeds and leave some behind every now and then, and traps feel like traps and not meat machines. I've returned after a day of running around to empty traps before. Once things start behaving out of the ordinary, it's never entirely expected but it's never in a way that is jarring or uncomfortable, it feels organic considering the setting of the game. Tree Guards are rare and probably won't be encountered before you experience the rest of the wild life, which allows it to make more sense in this world.

Crafting feels good, for the most part, and the small but very accessible and intuitive inventory makes resource management not so much of a chore. Navigation of the world is comfortable and having the ability to play the game without ever touching the keyboard is always nice. Though, being able to use WASD to move is also very appreciated, especially when I need to move those beefalo out of the way of my farms.

The game feels great so far, it's fun and intriguing, the beta at the moment leaves you wanting more but the promise of content all the way up til 2013 makes the waits between updates entirely bearable and exciting.

Suggestions I would make for the game...

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Well, with Navigation, I would like to see some way of selecting behind environmental objects(trees, rocks, graves) or highlighting items on the ground. It's frustrating when I have to make an entirely new axe or pick just to knock down a tree or rock so I can get to the log or stone that just fell behind it. And accidentally attacking a beefalo when trying to pick up its fresh manure isn't fun either.

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Personally, I don't like how research points and crafting item knowledge persists through lives. Using a new character or dying shouldn't allow you to stay smart, it waters down the perma-death system, pretty much making a player go on a tedious scavenger hunt to rush their advanced farms a gold tools just to sit there with nothing to do all over again. Gold tools and advanced farms should be a sign of survival skills and lasting as long as possible, not trial and error. At the very least, allow for resetting your research or add an option to make it automatic on death.

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Experience gain per life seems very promising for something more than just character unlocking, something of a meta game, a reward for simply playing the game. In between character unlocks, it could unlock craft-able items that persist between lives (if something like my previous suggestion was implemented) independent from researched items. I wouldn't mind seeing the golden tools being moved to this purpose. Unlocked items would be either purely cosmetic or passive, something like a tool to aid in mapping, a handheld telescope would be fantastic.

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Some short suggestions

-Beaches or deserts with sand available to harvest.

-Said sand allows for glass to be crafted in the vicinity of a camp fire.

-Some tools only craft-able in the vicinity of a crafting object (Minecraft's workbench). Makes bases more important of a place to return to.

-Weather.

-Covered shelter (caves or pig houses) or tarps if weather is implemented.

-Changing environments.

-More armors.

-Wood armor being weaker.

-Gold tools not lasting an eternity.

-Enterable areas or structures.

-Support for no more than 2 players aka co-op.

-Character back stories to fill up all that empty space in the character select screen.

-Player profiles.

-Evidence of past lives on a world that has been used multiple times (broken down alchemy and science machines, fire pit remnants, unused and broken meat effigies)

-More expensive but reusable sleeping mats with limited uses.

Bugs:

-Chests don't always close when walked away from and can be used from a distance.

-A food item (can't remember which) states "RMB to ea" and not "RMB to eat".

-Sometimes items that are dropped on a farm aren't selectable anymore.

Thanks for your time!

-Sabboth

[mobius187]

Well, with Navigation, I would like to see some way of selecting behind environmental objects(trees, rocks, graves) or highlighting items on the ground. It's frustrating when I have to make an entirely new axe or pick just to knock down a tree or rock so I can get to the log or stone that just fell behind it. And accidentally attacking a beefalo when trying to pick up its fresh manure isn't fun either.

My suggestion is try using the right/left arrow keys, as these rotate the camera view. If something falls behind an object just tap either key twice and now you're looking from the opposite direction. It's not 100% perfect, but if often does the trick.

Personally, I don't like how research points and crafting item knowledge persists through lives. Using a new character or dying shouldn't allow you to stay smart, it waters down the perma-death system, pretty much making a player go on a tedious scavenger hunt to rush their advanced farms a gold tools just to sit there with nothing to do all over again. Gold tools and advanced farms should be a sign of survival skills and lasting as long as possible, not trial and error. At the very least, allow for resetting your research or add an option to make it automatic on death.

Both the rate and permanency of research points (and discovered inventions) have been raised as concerns by other players. I myself think that death should cancel out both. Also, the rate at which RPs are gathered is currently considered to be too fast. Kevin is aware the RP system is broken and he wants to make changes, so you can expect something different at some stage.

Experience gain per life seems very promising for something more than just character unlocking, something of a meta game, a reward for simply playing the game. In between character unlocks, it could unlock craft-able items that persist between lives (if something like my previous suggestion was implemented) independent from researched items. I wouldn't mind seeing the golden tools being moved to this purpose. Unlocked items would be either purely cosmetic or passive, something like a tool to aid in mapping, a handheld telescope would be fantastic.

Agreed. Those who have played the Binding of Isaac are familiar with unlockable gained from playthroughs, both successful and not, as a means of adding extra value to each new game. I'm not sure what Klei has planned as currently only characters are unlockables, as you pointed out.

-Beaches or deserts with sand available to harvest.

I suggested beaches, but not deserts. However the topic of "varied climate islands" came up not too long ago (well for me at least) and it mentioned the idea of winter/frozen islands. So why not desert islands too?

Said sand allows for glass to be crafted in the vicinity of a camp fire.

Yup. Minecraft set the path for this one, at least when I suggested it. I also suggested bottles could be washed up on the beach shoreline for re-use.

Some tools only craft-able in the vicinity of a crafting object (Minecraft's workbench). Makes bases more important of a place to return to.

Certainly worth considering... when they have more complicated tools or placeables.

Weather.

Everyone wants weather!

Covered shelter (caves or pig houses) or tarps if weather is implemented.

Agreed. This came up in a thread about cabins, where the alternative was a simple covered area (i.e. 4 poles + roof) for the purposes of staying out of the rain. Or hail.

Changing environments.

Who doesn't want more environments? Different islands and maybe even underground areas...?

More armors.

Maybe, I mean I get no say, but unless there's a rebalance/nerf for the log suit it does the job. Anything more durable than a log suit would be pushing the line.

Wood armor being weaker.

As above, that would work. We also suggested the the log suit slow the player down when worn.

-Gold tools not lasting an eternity.

I still find it odd that gold is the metal of choice at all, but hey, it sure makes for shiny tools. Still, I think they need iron ore.

-Enterable areas or structures.

Mmmm. This is an arguable topic, as it usually involves the "log cabin idea". Still, it's certainly not a bad idea, just not everyone supports the idea of allowing the player to build large structures. Of course if you're familiar with Project Zombicide then you'll know of the system they use, which allows players to build/place individual parts of a house: floors, walls, windows, doors, and stairs. Something like that might work. Maybe.

-Support for no more than 2 players aka co-op.

Multiplayer has come up, but the current issue is that it's a lot of work to implement so Klei is focusing instead on the singleplayer game.

-Character back stories to fill up all that empty space in the character select screen.

IMHO, I have all the backstory I need. I'm playing Wendy... and she's crazy... and her sister is dead, but still haunts her. That may be one reason Wendy is crazy.

But hey, I wouldn't be against the idea of character profiles. I just don't need a reason for them being where they are or how they got there.

-Player profiles.

Is that like character profiles...? If so, yes, I agree with that idea. Or I'll just make up my own, as above.

-Evidence of past lives on a world that has been used multiple times (broken down alchemy and science machines, fire pit remnants, unused and broken meat effigies)

Funny, I came up with a similar suggestion as a means of "rebuilding". Someone else suggested a player grave.

-More expensive but reusable sleeping mats with limited uses.

I don't see why not. I usually stay up all night when I play, but for others night is boring.

Chests don't always close when walked away from and can be used from a distance.

Yup.

A food item (can't remember which) states "RMB to ea" and not "RMB to eat".

Not sure I heard this one... check the bug section of the forum.

Sometimes items that are dropped on a farm aren't selectable anymore.

Hmmm. You mean when you plant seeds? If so, yeah it's hard to target planted seeds right now and I hope they fix that issue.