New player feedback

[PotatoDuke]

Hello to all. Long time gamer here. I've been playing video games for over three decades. I first noticed Don't Starve on Youtube and was somewhat intrigued. Decided to give it a whirl after watching a friend play it.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying I'm right about anything. I could be wrong about many things. These things feel important, though, so here goes...

#1 point - To survive is not enough.

It's been talked about before, but I'll say it again. This game needs more than "just survive" to it. From what I've read of the dev posts, it seems like just surviving is the only thing they want to do. A real shame. Especially considering Don't Starve's Lovecraftian elements, the island survival, Cthulhu's sunken city of R'lyeh being somewhere in the ocean, etc. You guys could really go far with this. You could do it easily, without violating any copyrights.

Think about this:

Games like Minecraft and Terraria have survival elements to them. Now, sure, their survival elements are not as profound as the one in Don't Starve. But, in those games, the survival element is just the first step to doing so much more. The things that people have talked about, like exploring an underworld or ruined city, etc. Something like that really needs to happen. To just survive is not enough. Humans need more. It's what sets us apart from the animals.

This brings me to #2 point

#2 point - Those damn machines.

Needing research points to unlock things was a good idea. Science and Alchemy machines were very bad ideas. I was able to unlock all the important things on one island simply because of the machines. Please, get rid of them. The science and alchemy machines make the game mediocre.

Suggestions:

- Keep research points and need to use RP to unlock things

- Get rid of science and alchemy machines

- Scatter science "things" all around the various islands of the game world. You find them, pick them up and right-click on them, like you do food. They vanish upon use and give you research points instead of hunger points.

As it is, there's no reason to explore, but this might solve that. This could help with making survival just the first step to doing more with the game. However, if you do this, then you might want to make the spear something available at the start, since we'll be traversing the whole game world to make progress.

This could also go a long way to helping make a backstory for the game. Where did these science things come from? Has someone been here before? Could be tied in to the tall man who brought you to the islands, etc. The tall man could just be the avatar of some... thing. Maybe he chose you because you're the only one who has a chance to survive the insanity long enough to free his true form... but do really you want to? He promised to let you go home if you do.

These one-use science things you find and study could also go along with the sanity meter you guys plan to implement. Finding and studying things is like brain food. Hard to think about wriggling tentacles when you're trying to figure out how something works.

It could also work with the portal system you guys have hinted at. When the current island world starts to run out of things to study, then perhaps it's time to plan an escape.

Eventually, maybe, you can make a portal to something other than islands. He promised it would take you home.. but does it? Didn't you just set something lose on the world for the sake of your own needs? What is this firey domain you've wound up in?

Just throwing out ideas. As it stands, Don't Starve feels like Stranded 2 with a larger game world and a different theme. The real downer for this is that Stranded 2 is a free game now. Devs, I hate to say it, but if you want this game to stand out, then survival can't be the only thing. But, you're off to a damn good start.

[mobius187]

It's been talked about before, but I'll say it again. This game needs more than "just survive" to it. From what I've read of the dev posts, it seems like just surviving is the only thing they want to do. A real shame. Especially considering Don't Starve's Lovecraftian elements, the island survival, Cthulhu's sunken city of R'lyeh being somewhere in the ocean, etc. You guys could really go far with this. You could do it easily, without violating any copyrights.

Well right now the game is only, you could say, 1/3rd complete. The game you've been playing has only implemented the initial stage of the gameplay, while the Devs are still working to develop and implement the mid-tier and final stages of the game. This is teh reason why gameplay reaches a point where it loops in on itself with nothing more to do than "survive" The progressive plot, for example, hasn't been added yet.

That said, I do hope that the inclusion of the evntual Sanity meter will bring the game closer to the Cthulhu Mythos, as the Devs have hinted that sanity loss can lead to delusions that may prove fatal. The assumption being that your mind will conjure forth horrific abominations that will haunt (or hunt) you at nightfall.

In another thread or two, I discussed the suggestion of adding in ruins. Nothing major, just a few walls and pillars, but these would be curtain dressing for something unique, like an obelisk. The origins of said obelisk could be Cthulhian (i.e. Deep Ones), especially if the ruins show signs of once having been submerged. The point of my suggestion was that if the player chooses to Examine the obelisk they are able to discern a small fragment of the forbidden knowledge etched in its hieroglyphs and sigils to access a new invention. After that the player only needs to feed an alchemy machine the proper resources (new research method to be introduced in January) to unlock the craftable item. I further suggested the item required a rare resource or two, like the old wires found from digging up graves, and when crafted it provided either an item of great power with limited uses/durability or an item with a somewhat unique property, nothing too amazing, but whose effects are permanent (i.e. no durability). What items am I suggesting? Nothing really at the moment, as I'm waiting to see whether the Devs are interested enough to implement it.

Games like Minecraft and Terraria have survival elements to them. Now, sure, their survival elements are not as profound as the one in Don't Starve. But, in those games, the survival element is just the first step to doing so much more. The things that people have talked about, like exploring an underworld or ruined city, etc. Something like that really needs to happen. To just survive is not enough. Humans need more. It's what sets us apart from the animals.

Well we shall have to wait and see what the Devs provide in terms of new content. However you are certainly free to make suggestions as to specific updates and content you would like to see introduced to the game, and who knows, the Devs may like your idea and use it. They do read these threads (Trust me, I'm a Mod after all).

Needing research points to unlock things was a good idea. Science and Alchemy machines were very bad ideas. I was able to unlock all the important things on one island simply because of the machines. Please, get rid of them. The science and alchemy machines make the game mediocre.

Well right now both machines serve a purpose, the means to convert resources into research points. In January the Devs plan to change this, but the machines will still serve as to conduit for unlock inventions. Furthermore, the Science Machine, which starts off unlocked, provides the player with Tier-1 inventions to unlock, while the Alchemy Machine provides access to Tier-2 inventions. By requiring the creation of the Alchemy Machine players cannot skip to creating Tier-2 inventions from the get-go.

- Keep research points and need to use RP to unlock things

Well actually research points will be removed. To unlock inventions you need to sacrifice resources by feeding them into...

- Get rid of science and alchemy machines

...either the Science or Alchemy Machine(s). How does this work? I'm glad you asked...

- Scatter science "things" all around the various islands of the game world. You find them, pick them up and right-click on them, like you do food. They vanish upon use and give you research points instead of hunger points.

...rather than eating "science items", a thoroughly unhealthy exercise if I've ever heard of one , the player places them into the machines as previously, but rather than receiving arbitrary "vanilla" research points, which can be spent to unlock any invention, the resources consumed go towards unlocking a prototype of an invention that needs those resources to craft it. Now, as a prototype, the amount of resources to craft the first version is higher than needed... but afterwards you master the fabrication process and can craft later versions at a reduced resource cost. I'm sure more details of how this will work will be revealed in January.

This could also go a long way to helping make a backstory for the game. Where did these science things come from?

I always assumed it was because Wilson was a scientist. How that relates to the other characters...? You've got me there. No clue. I always wanted each character to have their own type of science/alchemy machine that suited their background more closely (i.e. Willow seems a bit goth, so maybe alters, while Wendy has Abigail... so maybe a seance table/crystal ball...? I'm just spitballing ideas here so feel free to make better suggestions if you like).

Could be tied in to the tall man who brought you to the islands, etc. The tall man could just be the avatar of some... thing. Maybe he chose you because you're the only one who has a chance to survive the insanity long enough to free his true form... but do really you want to? He promised to let you go home if you do.

I hope this isn't a spoiler, but the "tall man" is Maxwell, and he's a demon. As to the what, why, and where...? No clue. Those are the current plot holes the Devs will eventually fill, and yes, they have said you'll eventually uncover the truth as you progress through the plot.

These one-use science things you find and study could also go along with the sanity meter you guys plan to implement. Finding and studying things is like brain food. Hard to think about wriggling tentacles when you're trying to figure out how something works.

Maybe, why not? Science and logic are firm foundations against the madness that is the Cthulhu Mythos. Why in the tabletop RPG your Intelligence determines you maximum sanity attribute, while the skill, Cthulhu Mythos erodes the maximum sanity. So eventually as to unlock more and more secrets you are slowly driven towards permanent insanity...

I'm also told the wearing certain items will help your character hold onto their humanity/civility. In particular the top hat and dapper vest were mentioned, as both items aren't all that useful right now.

On a side note, I suggested a large camp fire might also help gradually restore one's sanity, as a large roaring fire would push back the darkness at night. the cost being that to maintain such a large fire you would need to feed it more often, sacrificing resources for sanity.

I hope there isn't anything like a Sanity Potion (Hey, I loved Amnesia... but we don't need their sanity solution for Don't Starve).

Eventually, maybe, you can make a portal to something other than islands. He promised it would take you home.. but does it? Didn't you just set something lose on the world for the sake of your own needs? What is this firey domain you've wound up in?

Who knows?

[PotatoDuke]

Well right now the game is only, you could say, 1/3rd complete. The game you've been playing has only implemented the initial stage of the gameplay, while the Devs are still working to develop and implement the mid-tier and final stages of the game. This is teh reason why gameplay reaches a point where it loops in on itself with nothing more to do than "survive" The progressive plot, for example, hasn't been added yet.

Ahh, ok. So the game isn't half done yet. I had the impression that the game was mostly or half done.

So, the tall man's name is Maxwell and we know he's a demon. I'd kind of hoped he'd remain nameless. Not too surprised that he's a demon. The first thing I thought when I saw him was that I bet he's a demon.

In another thread or two, I discussed the suggestion of adding in ruins. Nothing major, just a few walls and pillars, but these would be curtain dressing for something unique, like an obelisk. The origins of said obelisk could be Cthulhian (i.e. Deep Ones), especially if the ruins show signs of once having been submerged. The point of my suggestion was that if the player chooses to Examine the obelisk they are able to discern a small fragment of the forbidden knowledge etched in its hieroglyphs and sigils to access a new invention. After that the player only needs to feed an alchemy machine the proper resources (new research method to be introduced in January) to unlock the craftable item. I further suggested the item required a rare resource or two, like the old wires found from digging up graves, and when crafted it provided either an item of great power with limited uses/durability or an item with a somewhat unique property, nothing too amazing, but whose effects are permanent (i.e. no durability). What items am I suggesting? Nothing really at the moment, as I'm waiting to see whether the Devs are interested enough to implement it.

I like everything that you said here. When I felt that the game needed something beyond it's survival aspect, something like this was what I had in mind. Something that works with the game's theme and answers that question of; "Ok, I can now survive rather well. Now what?"

So, consider me a supporter of this idea.

Well actually research points will be removed. To unlock inventions you need to sacrifice resources by feeding them into...

...either the Science or Alchemy Machine(s). How does this work? I'm glad you asked...

That's pretty much what I did from the get-go. The island I first spawned on had tons of grass, twigs and plenty of trees. I stayed on that island hunting rabbits and making things to feed into a science machine. After unlocking some things, I realized I hadn't done any real exploration, but had no need to.

That's why I proposed getting rid of the science/alchemy machines and instead using something that requires a little more exploration. To be honest? I don't care how it's done. I think we just need a little something more to encourage exploration. Something you want to find more of.. whatever it is.

But, as it stands, the devs seem to want to discourage exploration. Fires require more fuel now, which definitely makes you want to explore less. Tempts you to set up between plains and forest and not move around much. At the very least, you'll be doing it less often.

...rather than eating "science items", a thoroughly unhealthy exercise if I've ever heard of one , the player places them into the machines as previously, but rather than receiving arbitrary "vanilla" research points, which can be spent to unlock any invention, the resources consumed go towards unlocking a prototype of an invention that needs those resources to craft it. Now, as a prototype, the amount of resources to craft the first version is higher than needed... but afterwards you master the fabrication process and can craft later versions at a reduced resource cost. I'm sure more details of how this will work will be revealed in January.

So, use a resource to unlock a prototype, to unlock a higher version, to unlock the later/final version.

Not a bad idea, really. Just so long as gathering resources in order to do all this doesn't get more grindy than it is.

I always assumed it was because Wilson was a scientist. How that relates to the other characters...? You've got me there. No clue.

When I said "why are these science items here?" I was referring to a possible backstory element. After all, why do we assume we're the only ones that Maxwell has ever abucted to play his little game?

Let's just say that he needs a mortal to release his true form. He's tried others. They all went insane and died. Obviously, Maxwell doesn't want to tell you that. The scientific items you find and study are things made and left behind by previous victims.

When you use the items found around the game world, maybe you also find more of the game story. Wilson says things like, "These things I'm finding were made by humans, I wonder if that tall man has ever abducted anyone else?" ..and so on and so forth.

It also goes along with why Wilson can succeed where others failed. Since the previous people left things behind, Wilson has more to go by than they did. Plus, Maxwell's a patient guy and you know what they say; If at first you don't succeed....

I hope there isn't anything like a Sanity Potion (Hey, I loved Amnesia... but we don't need their sanity solution for Don't Starve).

The only time your sanity should be instantly restored to 100% is if you release Maxwell for the sake of being allowed to go home.. yet wind up in some place of ultimate punishment for it. What mythical place is firey and reserved to punish dead people who were bad? The only way to make sure you "appreciate" your situation is to make you completely sane at the time. Think about it.

So, why would you even wind up in that place? Think about it. You play Maxwell's little game and free him. Do you really think he's just going to send you home so you can run around telling other people about him? No. Maxwell is not a nice guy. He'd rather do something nasty to you, instead.