how i think the debuff drones should work

[doritosdamafia]

i don't see the logic behind the max damage increase be 20% pos rift when it was 25% pre rift and alot more easy to get, so my idea is simple, the first drone gives 15% more damage, the second give 10% more making it 25% with two, the third and the fourth both give more 5 planar damage making it a max of 10 planar damage plus 25% more normal with four drones.

 

Of couse theres a lot to change in the drones to make them work, like making them don't stop scanning so easily, make the scan AOE and the list goes on

Edited April 26 by doritosdamafia

[ADN69]

 

8 minutes ago, doritosdamafia said:

i don't see the logic behind the max damage increase be 20% pos rift when it was 25% pre rift and alot more easy to get, so my idea is simple, the first drone gives 15% more damage, the second give 10% more making it 25% with two, the third and the fourth both give more 15 planar damage making it a max of 30 planar damage plus 25% more normal with four drones.

 

Of couse theres a lot to change in the drones to make them work, like making them don't stop scanning so easily, make the scan AOE and the list goes on

before was a damage vulnerability on a target
meaning not only you but also players and followers like pigman and bunnyman got the bonus effect. and the bonus damage come the added benifit of having a hand to pick up items as well

[doritosdamafia]

4 minutes ago, ADN69 said:

 

meaning not only you but also players and followers like pigman and bunnyman got the bonus effect. and the bonus damage come the added benifit of having a hand to pick up items as well

this part was bugged, well at least when i tested it, only could do more damage but pigs and bunnyman couldn't

[ADN69]

1 minute ago, doritosdamafia said:

this part was bugged, well at least when i tested it, only could do more damage but pigs and bunnyman couldn't

yes but they couldve fixed that bug and put in the game as is and still do fine

[doritosdamafia]

1 minute ago, ADN69 said:

yes but they couldve fixed that bug and put in the game as is and still do fine

yea i agreed, the past version just needed a planar damage to close it together

[NotGabriel]

30 planar damage seems insanely powerful, if you’re using double spin cycle that’s like 90 planar damage a second.

I’d be more than happy with the 25% with reg heart and like 5 planar damage for the third and fourth totaling 10. That’s more in line with other planar damage boosts we see like the Brightshade helm and void cowl

[doritosdamafia]

4 minutes ago, NotGabriel said:

30 planar damage seems insanely powerful, if you’re using double spin cycle that’s like 90 planar damage a second.

I’d be more than happy with the 25% with reg heart and like 5 planar damage for the third and fourth totaling 10. That’s more in line with other planar damage boosts we see like the Brightshade helm and void cowl

i aways forget that 10 and 15 planar damage is a high number, i too used with normal damage formula

[Siren11]

11 hours ago, ADN69 said:

 

before was a damage vulnerability on a target
meaning not only you but also players and followers like pigman and bunnyman got the bonus effect. and the bonus damage come the added benifit of having a hand to pick up items as well

So literally just Abigail’s vex?

Klei already gave AoE to (almost) every character in the game. I would be a lot happier if the vex debuff could remain Wendy’s special thing. WX has always specialized in survivability over combat, so giving them Wendy + Wigfrid abilities (especially when the two of them got such mediocre trees) just seems unfair.

[OrangeNibble]

Wendy's special ability is not the Vex, lol. It is having an extremely strong follower for free that shes uses from the beginning of the game to the end.

[Siren11]

16 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

Wendy's special ability is not the Vex, lol. It is having an extremely strong follower for free that shes uses from the beginning of the game to the end.

Abigail is strong because she has AoE and vex. Every other character (besides poor Wilson) now has some form of AoE, so that can no longer be called Wendy’s unique ability. The vex the only unique ability she has. I’m already sick of hearing people say that Wendy has no point when Willow exists. I don’t want ANOTHER character to get buffed to the point of overshadowing her.

Wendy got nerfed in her tree to make sure her damage couldn’t surpass Wolfgang’s (except in very, very niche situations that are incredibly time-consuming and difficult to pull off). I want to make sure she gets the same considerations. If WX gets a similar ability (which I really, really don’t want), it should be difficult or costly. IMO, it would just be better for Klei to come up with something new anyways.

I also don’t think it makes much thematic sense for WX’s ability to work on everyone. They seem to hate when the other survivors take advantage of their tech.

Edited April 26 by Siren11

[OrangeNibble]

3 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Abigail is strong because she has AoE and vex. Every other character (besides poor Wilson) now has some form of AoE, so that can no longer be called Wendy’s unique ability. The vex the only unique ability she has. I’m already sick of hearing people say that Wendy has no point when Willow exists. I don’t want ANOTHER character to get buffed to the point of overshadowing her.

Wendy got nerfed in her tree to make sure her damage couldn’t surpass Wolfgang’s (except in very, very niche situations that are incredibly time-consuming and difficult to pull off). I want to make sure she gets the same considerations. If WX gets a similar ability (which I really, really don’t want), it should be difficult or costly. IMO, it would just be better for Klei to come up with something new anyways.

I think that is really reductionist. I don't see the problem at all.

Abigail is free from day 1, and trivializes various aspects of the game (e.g., spiders) early combat. Abigail is the unique ability: the free follower that always accompanies her, and that she invests in and controls. The Vex is a small part of playing Wendy.

We are talking about an ability that WX can opt-into that requires defeating the shadow pieces. It comes way later than Wendy's ability, is triggered in a different way, and the debuffs could just both stack...

I don't get it. You don't play Wendy because of the Vex, do you? The Vex is a minor part of her mechanics. Why does it matter if WX gets a mechanic where WX also has some ability to apply an increased damage taken debuff?

 

[Jarrec]

Saying vex is a minor part of playing wendy just says you never played wendy its her whole thing 

[Kvetevk]

23 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Abigail is strong because she has AoE and vex. Every other character (besides poor Wilson) now has some form of AoE, so that can no longer be called Wendy’s unique ability. The vex the only unique ability she has. I’m already sick of hearing people say that Wendy has no point when Willow exists. I don’t want ANOTHER character to get buffed to the point of overshadowing her.

Wendy got nerfed in her tree to make sure her damage couldn’t surpass Wolfgang’s (except in very, very niche situations that are incredibly time-consuming and difficult to pull off). I want to make sure she gets the same considerations. If WX gets a similar ability (which I really, really don’t want), it should be difficult or costly. IMO, it would just be better for Klei to come up with something new anyways.

I also don’t think it makes much thematic sense for WX’s ability to work on everyone. They seem to hate when the other survivors take advantage of their tech.

I don't think she got nerfed, her skill tree adds a lot of fun stuff that isn't focused on raw damage (except the affinity).

1 atrium hearth for the same effect as Wendy has from the start, it is not cheap and it makes the progression a lot longer if you want to keep the hearth. Wendy has lower damage and Abigail is weak to bosses, wx on the other hand requires a boss drop that you can get only during new moon and it's needed for progressing the story and also you can only have it in 1 body at a time. I think it is only fair that it vexes enemies for others as well.

[OrangeNibble]

1 hour ago, Jarrec said:

Saying vex is a minor part of playing wendy just says you never played wendy its her whole thing 

What are talking about? Wendy's whole thing is not Vex. That's ridiculous. Wendy's whole thing is Abigail. One aspect of that is that Abigail gives things a minor general damage vulnerability of 10% (Vex) *and* Wendy's attacks against Vex'd enemies do 40% more damage, to compensate for her normal 0.75 damage multiplier. Nobody obsesses over doing x1.155 more damage... If you want a bigger damage multiplier you play Wolfgang. If you want Abigail you play Wendy. The idea that Wendy should coordinate what she attacks alongside Abigail is core to Wendy (in that sense Vex is core to Wendy), but the ability to debuff targets so they take 10% more damage is not at-all core to Wendy.

In the context of this discussion about WX being apply to apply a debuff they are just totally unrelated. Wendy's Vex is about requiring the player to be attacking the same target as Abigail. WX's previous shadow affinity thing is just mechanically and thematically totally different. WX's version is not about coordinating with a follower. It is unlocked by socketing an item. It takes time to get, and is a reward for progression, etc... Both mechanics happen to have been communicated using the word "Vex" and to involve increased damage taken... but they are entirely distinct, and in no way does one invalidate the other.

Edited April 26 by OrangeNibble

[Siren11]

15 hours ago, OrangeNibble said:

I think that is really reductionist. I don't see the problem at all.

Abigail is free from day 1, and trivializes various aspects of the game (e.g., spiders) early combat. Abigail is the unique ability: the free follower that always accompanies her, and that she invests in and controls. The Vex is a small part of playing Wendy.

We are talking about an ability that WX can opt-into that requires defeating the shadow pieces. It comes way later than Wendy's ability, is triggered in a different way, and the debuffs could just both stack...

I don't get it. You don't play Wendy because of the Vex, do you? The Vex is a minor part of her mechanics. Why does it matter if WX gets a mechanic where WX also has some ability to apply an increased damage taken debuff?

 

To be honest, I do mostly play Wendy because of the vex this point. The AoE was a big part of it since it’s time consuming and annoying to deal with hordes, but now most characters can deal with hordes pretty quickly. The real fun of playing Wendy is managing Abigail and being rewarded with higher damage through her vex. I spend a lot of time planning how to maximize damage from her vex. It’s also the main reason I play Wendy in groups.

The shadow pieces can be beaten very quickly. Probably not day one as WX, but day 21 is still incredibly early in most of my play throughs. The only problem here is that they break, which Klei will surely change.

I also don’t think it makes any sense for WX to share their abilities.

Edit because I realized I forgot to explain this: I have spent about two in game years maximizing Abigail’s vex for every player on that server, and I’m only about halfway done. In that time, I have also gotten so many shadow atriums that I ran out of room to store them all. Wendy does get her abilities early and cheaply, but maximizing them is very time consuming. If WX got a better vex (25% buff + 10 planar damage compared to Wendy’s 10% buff + 10 planar damage for followers), I would be frustrated bc I’ve spent so much time working on this. I think I’d be okay with WX getting a 25% buff + 10 planar and everyone else getting maybe like 5% and no additional planar. 

Edited April 26 by Siren11