Sisturn vs team spirit

[DVGMedia]

It kind of feels like these two upgrade paths within Wendy's tree are kind of like the two that you choose to go with like do you want a tanky Abby that's not controllable or do you want the less tanky Abby that is more controllable 

It kind of makes me think of how the balancing of them actually ended up becoming because they kind of were both looked at in a vacuum and I feel like the way  that sisturn is balance doesn't really fit with that setup. 

Since sisturn only really helps with very few bosses. Still think it would be better if the sisturn acted as a buff station that applied different buffs based on the flowers inside.  So that way it actually has some competition with team spirit.

I feel like team spirit kind of dominates the skill tree because of how useful it is not just in combat.  I felt like Wendy's other skills really need some changes to really give choice of what the player should pick 

[Gashzer]

Team spirit is overrated.

Abigail is fundamentally designed to be this lazy, requires little micromanagement follower.  With shadow abigail and team spirit branches, Klei have humoured the veteran's crazy unnecessary micromanaging that there are many youtube videos about... 

But sisturn 3, lunar abigail and ghastly potion combined are the better skills for embracing what Wendy is all about , which is this lazy follower who now has massively increased survivability for bosses which you don't have to babysit often. Just use heal on dead abigail then use ghastly potion and boom she's back in the fight. I use this setup and it feels a million times better than using team spirit to dodge.

 

Edited May 7, 2025 by Gashzer

[DVGMedia]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Team spirit is overrated.

Abigail is fundamentally designed to be this lazy, requires little micromanagement follower.  With shadow abigail and team spirit branches, Klei have humoured the veteran's crazy unnecessary micromanaging that there are many youtube videos about... 

 

Not at all the entirety of Wendy encapsulates that you didn't want Abby to die because then you would be without a power for a few days. That's her original design. Even now if Abby dies she is weaker than normal. 

The ghastly experience cure all strat is just a trap.

That and the fact that the sisturns whole job is to bring Abby back faster.

Edited May 7, 2025 by DVGMedia

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

Not at all the entirety of Wendy encapsulates that you didn't want Abby to die because then you would be without a power for a few days. That's her original design. Even now if Abby dies she is weaker than normal. 

If old abigail dies you can instantly revive her... literally designed to be as low maintainance as possible. 

Old abigail was never meant for all the AOE bosses but sisturn 3, lunar, ghastly abigail is super convenient to use and is the answer.

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

The ghastly experience cure all strat is just a trap.

Not for me. Its the lazy way to play wendy and hence is the best way to play her.

If I want a stronger follower that requires higher levels of management I'll just play Willow. Burning Bernie fills that niche.

Edited May 7, 2025 by Gashzer

[DVGMedia]

16 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If old abigail dies you can instantly revive her... literally designed to be as low maintainance as possible. 

Old abigail was never meant for all the AOE bosses but sisturn 3, lunar, ghastly abigail is super convenient to use and is the answer.

Not for me. Its the lazy way to play wendy and hence is the best way to play her.

If I want a stronger follower that requires higher levels of management I'll just play Willow. Burning Bernie fills that niche.

So this is all your personal perspective then Instead of having what I suggest?

So then how would my suggestion affect your playstyle? I would think it would enhance it since would provide more lazy ways to use Abby 

[YouKnowWho142]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

So this is all your personal perspective then Instead of having what I suggest?

The problem with this, and all your posts relating to Wendy complaints, is that your suggestions are all your personal perspective for what you want out of Wendy and how she plays. Everything you complain about are complaints that occur because they go against the way you specifically want to play, and everything you suggest only benefits specifically how you want to play, all without regarding other playstyles, strategies, and methods.

it makes it a little hard to take some of your suggestions seriously since it’s clear that you’re expecting to play Wendy a super specific way that a lot of her skills evidently aren’t made for

Edited May 7, 2025 by YouKnowWho142

[SilverSpoon]

34 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

it makes it a little hard to take some of your suggestions seriously since it’s clear that you’re expecting to play Wendy a super specific way that a lot of her skills evidently aren’t made for

I don't think so. I don't think DVGMedia's impressions of Wendy deviate from those of the whole of players, and I see many similarities with them, including my own.

And, judging from your past statements,  I also don't think your impressions of Wendy deviate from those of the whole of players.

 

Edited May 7, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[DVGMedia]

34 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

The problem with this, and all your posts relating to Wendy complaints, is that your suggestions are all your personal perspective for what you want out of Wendy and how she plays. Everything you complain about are complaints that occur because they go against the way you specifically want to play, and everything you suggest only benefits specifically how you want to play, all without regarding other playstyles, strategies, and methods.

it makes it a little hard to take some of your suggestions seriously since it’s clear that you’re expecting to play Wendy a super specific way that a lot of her skills evidently aren’t made for

I've put suggestions to. Try and keep your playstyle in mind yet when I put in mine I just get hate? 

I feel  that there is a way to get all of our styles love as not one is the absolute. So we should be helping each other. To make something better. Because I feel the tree itself was approached in the wrong way. 

We can end up with the same exact effects now just done differently.

Giving a bit more ease of access and a bit more options than what exists now

 

There really are inherent problems in the tree but no one wants to address them because they are tired to talking Bout i

My perspective is no less valid than yours and I know you also have complaints of the way they tree works. So we need to keep up the heat

Edited May 7, 2025 by DVGMedia

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

I've put suggestions to. Try and keep your playstyle in mind yet when I put in mine I just get hate? 

4 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

The ghastly experience cure all strat is just a trap.

 

[DVGMedia]

I never said to remove it. In fact it should be base kit @Bumber64 

But isn't it surprising that it's just the effect sisturn in a potion? And like the blossom effect would be better as a potion too? You already know my stances on the upgrades 

Wreath needs vigor to be useful. There should be a defense potion for bosses while sisturn provides passive effects. A defense super potion would be wonderful since there is no choice in supers you are just stuck with the affinity unless you change skill tree with the portal

Edited May 7, 2025 by DVGMedia

[Echsrick]

healing apparently is a trap

[DVGMedia]

13 hours ago, Echsrick said:

healing apparently is a trap

And yet again here we are tearing each other down Instead of actually talking to find a good solution. 

Like personally I feel that if they fixed up the cistern and The wraith her skill tree would be fine because then there's actually like choices and the supplemental pips spook and potion upgrades would actually have a use

[hyoton123]

Team spirit is good because it’s free and always available and has amazing utility in almost every scenario. Even one point is game changing. It’s a pain to use, but just spamming escape is plenty. You get what you pay for.

 

Sisturn 3 is only good against certain bosses, but it’s AMAZING (all caps) against them, and it so happens abigail has bad matchups for staying alive anyway. Sisturn 3 doesnt need to be in your life all the time, it just needs to be an option. 

 

The thing with adding moar sisturn is that the sisturn sucks. It needs to be filled often with materials that are tedious and simple to gather, and doesnt move. Imagine if you had to keep the sisturn alive for team spirit. Awful.

 

I dont want more sisturn in my life. I remember from the beta that people were singing the praises of player tag and how it would change their lives. I think we’re at a good place with it, if thats the case.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, hyoton123 said:

 

I dont want more sisturn in my life. I remember from the beta that people were singing the praises of player tag and how it would change their lives. I think we’re at a good place with it, if thats the case.

Thing is sisturn can act as a utility structure Too.  In the upgrade tree since it usually exhibits a secondary effect. That secondary effect can be for those that are less combative. 

I can imagine people using them in base like mini mush lights if they put bulbs in  or a mini heat source with nettles or even a Regen spot with tillweeds and forgetmelots. Completely separate from the buff it gives Abby

[Uedo]

21 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

I've put suggestions to. Try and keep your playstyle in mind yet when I put in mine I just get hate? 

I feel  that there is a way to get all of our styles love as not one is the absolute. So we should be helping each other. To make something better. Because I feel the tree itself was approached in the wrong way. 

You didn't get hate, someone disagreed with you.

I think the second part is their point 'So we should be helping each other. To make something better. Because I feel the tree itself was approached in the wrong way. ' You feel it should be one way, so you're asking others to agree - Some don't, it's fine.

[DVGMedia]

32 minutes ago, Uedo said:

You didn't get hate, someone disagreed with you.

I think the second part is their point 'So we should be helping each other. To make something better. Because I feel the tree itself was approached in the wrong way. ' You feel it should be one way, so you're asking others to agree - Some don't, it's fine.

Well it's more just here from what I can tell from polling people do agree that Wendy's tree is pretty flat. 

So if you think it's fine now that's great but it doesn't mean it's a Disagreement. It's more just indifference.

Nothing would change if they added more flower effects onto sisturn three or even added a 4th point. I'm sure more people would choose that over than what's currently exists because it's that and more 

But then I'm not even really changing what they enjoy so I don't understand the opposition 

Sometimes also it's just speaking to the wrong audience  cause I only get this reception from the forums and the discord 

 

Sometimes also it's just speaking to the wrong audience  cause I only get this reception from the forums and the discord 

 

Edited May 8, 2025 by DVGMedia

[Echsrick]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Well it's more just here from what I can tell from polling people do agree that Wendy's tree is pretty flat. 

ah yes on youtube, because as we all know random youtube people are totaly not bias for there youtuber video maker...and the fact that wendy has absurd player count then any other character, of course they want more and more stuff then characters that actualy NEED more attention, its a weird human thing or something, we seen it in the beta forum how it was flooded with wendy talk while wortox and walter were struggling for any scraps if at all

[DVGMedia]

5 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

ah yes on youtube, because as we all know random youtube people are totaly not bias for there youtuber video maker...and the fact that wendy has absurd player count then any other character, of course they want more and more stuff then characters that actualy NEED more attention, its a weird human thing or something, we seen it in the beta forum how it was flooded with wendy talk while wortox and walter were struggling for any scraps if at all

How do you know they don't need it? Maybe just anti bias? Playing through it and using her skills the only thing that does feel good is team spirit.  Everything else feels bad over time because it doesn't change anything it's mostly a nothing burger.  I like the graves though just cause i just think it's nice. 

And not it's not on YouTube I've spoken on many channels about this and the consensus is wendys tree is boring and bland. It's fine yeah but there could have been more 

If you don't support making Wendy better then this will just happen again and I don't want more character conflict 

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

ah yes on youtube, because as we all know random youtube people are totaly not bias for there youtuber video maker...

I should note that in the last Wendy skill tree poll on this forum, only 36.7% voted "Satisfied".

 

Edited May 8, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Echsrick]

again, wendy has an absurd amount of play count vs wortox and walter TOGETHER, of course theres goin to be bias, and of course that has to be taken into consideration

[BattleOzze]

The only skill that I would like to change is "Vengeful Spirit". Maybe last two skills in poiton line. But for some reason people keep pushing for needless buffs to already strong skills.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, BattleOzze said:

The only skill that I would like to change is "Vengeful Spirit". Maybe last two skills in poiton line. But for some reason people keep pushing for needless buffs to already strong skills.

Are they needless? Who says they are? It's just something to make it actually be a skill tree  to give more variety of choices. 

You telling me making Abby glow brighter is a super strong buff?

Edited May 9, 2025 by DVGMedia