[Wortox] Skill Tree Tweaks Megathread

[ApoIIo]

9 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

 

Any other questions?

yeah uh, no. that simply does not speak for me. i burned *more* souls before the skill tree.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

9 minutes ago, ApoIIo said:

yeah uh, no. that simply does not speak for me. i burned *more* souls before the skill tree.

That's cool, but it's not really the point I was even making, so this seems like a.distraction with no objective. That's not really farming to the extent we do now, nor was it ever necessary. It was just a choice you could make.

How did you deal with winter like that? Or the caves, for that matter?

[ApoIIo]

56 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

That's cool, but it's not really the point I was even making, so this seems like a.distraction with no objective. That's not really farming to the extent we do now, nor was it ever necessary. It was just a choice you could make.

I think this is just a completely pointless thing to assert. Of course working with your character's gimmick is ENTIRELY optional. Farming souls was not "necessary" nor is it "necessary" now. The same thing goes for almost anyone else too. I want to make use of my character so I farm souls to meet the cost. I always farmed souls to meet the cost. What point is the character if I'm going to **occasionally** speed up slightly as a byproduct of kills I'd otherwise normally attain? That's simply an underwhelming reason to pick anyone. It's like picking Woodie but only using wereforms on full moons.

56 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

That's cool, but it's not really the point I was even making, so this seems like a.distraction with no objective. That's not really farming to the extent we do now, nor was it ever necessary. It was just a choice you could make.

How did you deal with winter like that? Or the caves, for that matter?

I have built these in the biomes worth visiting, so I could teleport seamlessly even when I didn't have a way to store souls. The startup cost isn't that high and is decently reasonable to be done by winter 1 latest since 5 bee boxes filled the old soul cap entirely. If a part of the map lacks its dedicated soul station, you just chain with the closest one. The archives don't warrant a soul station because lightbugs exist.
I never stopped building soul farms, they just changed their appearance now with the update to suit the needs of today.
2025-02-10 04-35-45.mkv

Wait why the hell did forums ruin my video

 

 

ok that works at last

ignore the blunder at the end, that's cringe
also a torch works i use fire staves bc im lazy to get off and on the beef (i am trying to showcase what i was doing before the skill tree so no reaping)

[Echsrick]

28 minutes ago, ApoIIo said:

Wait why the hell did forums ruin my video

 

interesting, but i think this will get me banned on the servers trying to do something like that

[OMEGASCRUFF]

23 minutes ago, ApoIIo said:

I think this is just a completely pointless thing to assert. Of course working with your character's gimmick is ENTIRELY optional. Farming souls was not "necessary" nor is it "necessary" now. The same thing goes for almost anyone else too. I want to make use of my character so I farm souls to meet the cost. I always farmed souls to meet the cost. What point is the character if I'm going to **occasionally** speed up slightly as a byproduct of kills I'd otherwise normally attain? That's simply an underwhelming reason to pick anyone. It's like picking Woodie but only using wereforms on full moons.

I have built these in the biomes worth visiting, so I could teleport seamlessly even when I didn't have a way to store souls. The startup cost isn't that high and is decently reasonable to be done by winter 1 latest since 5 bee boxes filled the old soul cap entirely. If a part of the map lacks its dedicated soul station, you just chain with the closest one. The archives don't warrant a soul station because lightbugs exist.
I never stopped building soul farms, they just changed their appearance now with the update to suit the needs of today.
2025-02-10 04-35-45.mkv

Wait why the hell did forums ruin my video

 

 

ok that works at last

ignore the blunder at the end, that's cringe
also a torch works i use fire staves bc im lazy to get off and on the beef (i am trying to showcase what i was doing before the skill tree so no reaping)

Ah you bothered with Flingos. Makes sense. I was imagining a watering can and I could not be bothered like that. This is hella late-game stuff tho. I'm not really sure this is the best benchmark to set.

I dunno. I just killed birds whenever I was waiting for friends, and I basically never had to worry about Souls besides in the Ruins, where I plopped a couple spiders. Sometimes I'd catch frozen bees for that, but I only did it if a friend was coming who couldn't help with Splemonkeys. Birds were not always an accessible strat, but it got good as soon as we got the Howlitzer, and VERY good with the Gloomerang. And I just utilized every wormhole that would help, along with every cave entrance as I needed for a quick small recharge. Didn't really have to build anything at all, personally, and since I often just went from boss to boss, I felt totally fine to me, and I only ever ran out of Souls when my friends were flopping. Lol We all delt with the crappy 20-cap differently. Some people caught bees. I bet a lot of them didn't know you could just freeze them... At the end of the day, though, this is some late-game stuff, on day 992. What did you do.... Before this? Because I think we both know this game isn't really built around 1000-day worlds.

Anyways, the point is, I want fueling your Souls to feel more organic. What we had before could be made organic with the gameplay choices like I made above, but it's now not worth doing any of that anymore because bulk farming is the most time efficient method by far. Basically, I'd rather get the cap back at 40, but map teleports are improved even further, and I'd like bosses to drop even more Souls now that we can actually hold them. You can still farm for Twin-tailed Hearts and such, or catch bees if you're still having trouble, idrc. But the fact that our Souls are effectively unlimited now just destroys the functionalities of a bulk of the current skill tree, and make it extremely hard to die with bottomless healing that also heals all your friends too.

[ApoIIo]

2 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

At the end of the day, though, this is some late-game stuff, on day 992. What did you do.... Before this? Because I think we both know this game isn't really built around 1000-day worlds.

This is day 20 stuff and that is if you take it easy. They cost 10 boards 5 honeycomb each. They do not take 992 days to build. The only limitation is winter 1 for flingos and that is skippable with watering can, the flingos are only there because freezing bees made them less work to kill.

Before being done building this I was still mapping the world on my beefalo. So I wasn't in need of the sort of soul stations to chain-hop everywhere with, because you know, I don't have a map yet. As for my soul needs during that time, running over every butterfly I saw with the beef and emptying natural beehives served for the refill. I also began making routes hopping from beehive to beehive on the way to my target destinations when I had a mostly-filled map. Obviously that wasn't sufficiently comfortable so I built these.

2 hours ago, Echsrick said:

interesting, but i think this will get me banned on the servers trying to do something like that

Then the servers you play on suck ngl

[Crimson Hollow]

Thoughts and ideas collected today:

 

1. soul eating animation is too long 

2. Soul Bastion takes 3 insight points and provides less benefit than a Soul Jar

 

[Mr. Furman]

35 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

1. soul eating animation is too long 

I think this issue doesn't matter much, because usually you won't be eating them mid battle.

[ApoIIo]

The eating anim is not a problem at all

[OMEGASCRUFF]

11 hours ago, ApoIIo said:

This is day 20 stuff and that is if you take it easy.

Bro's making bees while I'm killing CC

[ApoIIo]

7 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Bro's making bees while I'm killing CC

CC can still be killed by winter if I dedicate a day or two to beekeeping, and I don't hate myself enough to squeeze autumn CC's. This sort of setup really takes less than people think. Even less so when you consider you need to prototype a bug net for pearl and make at least two. 

[asdsaax]

Bump

[Y0sH]

This Bugnet x Knabsack Collaboration better be groundbreaking....

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

This Bugnet x Knabsack Collaboration better be groundbreaking....

AOE bugnet, with BIG screenshake and vfx.

The more you catch, the bigger the screenshake.

Combo meter pops up on right side of screen for AOE butterfly catching chains.

If your combo meter gets high enough, you can kickflip the knabsack and use it as a skateboard for insane speed increases as a Devil May Cry song starts wailing.

[Hollow soul 3]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

AOE bugnet, with BIG screenshake and vfx.

The more you catch, the bigger the screenshake.

Combo meter pops up on right side of screen for AOE butterfly catching chains.

If your combo meter gets high enough, you can kickflip the knabsack and use it as a skateboard for insane speed increases as a Devil May Cry song starts wailing.

Any other survivor who sees it automatically stops for a well deserved 5 second applause

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Any other survivor who sees it automatically stops for a well deserved 5 second applause

If you get your Butterfly Catching Combo Meter (BCCM) to the W rank, the top of the meter, Wortox will wail on his knabsack like an electric guitar. The camera will zoom in as a forced cutscene.

After this cutscene, you will teleport to the inside of the nearest boss, instantly making it explode.

[Y0sH]

On 2/11/2025 at 2:34 PM, Dingle said:

AOE bugnet

I know you were just playing when you said this but after playing Wortox with the Thul net and kinda decrypting the devs mentioning this Bugnet x Knabsack I think this is exactly what the new Knabsack change will be.

I don't know if it'll be a storage inside the Knabsack itself or just a way to catch multiple bees or butterflies with one swipe but the AOE seems like a sure thing.

Spoiler

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163700-game-update-653176/?do=findComment&comment=1793094

The way he references Bugnet "alternative" and how the Thul one needed to be mid to late game makes me thing Wortox's Knabsack would at the very least be AOE because the Thul one is only a regular Bugnet with more uses.

[Dingle]

44 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

I know you were just playing when you said this but after playing Wortox with the Thul net and kinda decrypting the devs mentioning this Bugnet x Knabsack I think this is exactly what the new Knabsack change will be.

I don't know if it'll be a storage inside the Knabsack itself or just a way to catch multiple bees or butterflies with one swipe but the AOE seems like a sure thing.

  Hide contents

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163700-game-update-653176/?do=findComment&comment=1793094

The way he references Bugnet "alternative" and how the Thul one needed to be mid to late game makes me thing Wortox's Knabsack would at the very least be AOE because the Thul one is only a regular Bugnet with more uses.

This would be interesting to maybe not make soul damage completely mandatory. You could aoe catch bees then murder them.

Depends on the cost though, as the sack takes both webs and souls. So you would be spending souls to get souls. Though decoy explosion soul farming also spends souls to get souls, you can get a lot of souls in exchange for 2 decoys.

I really doubt it will be aoe at all, though. We will see, I guess.

[Fyffnuft]

i hope klei considers working on wortox after they see this megathread

[Y0sH]

3 minutes ago, Fyffnuft said:

i hope klei considers working on wortox after they see this megathread

Doubtful, we've been making these since last year and he hasn't been updated since last year unfortunately.

[Fyffnuft]

Just now, Y0sH said:

Doubtful, we've been making these since last year and he hasn't been updated since last year unfortunately.

why tho, its clear as day that wortox players are not happy about the skilltree and making complaints why wouldnt they rework it?

[Y0sH]

Just now, Fyffnuft said:

why tho, its clear as day that wortox players are not happy about the skilltree and making complaints why wouldnt they rework it?

The only statement we got from the Devs directly was that they're happy with his tree and they'll be working on a Bugnet Knabsack that they needed to add the Thul Bugnet one in game first before they released it.

As a whole no one really cared to make the Knabsack a Bugnet specifically it was just a suggestion and took a backseat to the many other complaints about his Skilltree. However, the Devs really focused on this and instead of addressed his more pressing issues, they use the Knabsack to kinda string players along while never addressing anything else regarding him.

Funny enough if they would've just kept the planar options for the Knabsack, alot of people would've deemed it good enough and moved on lol.

[Crimson Hollow]

22 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Funny enough if they would've just kept the planar options for the Knabsack, alot of people would've deemed it good enough and moved on lol.

Why did they remove it tho

[Y0sH]

Just now, Crimson Hollow said:

Why did they remove it tho

I have no idea, considering the fact that all of his affinity skills are locked behind specific post rift gear it made sense that carrying pure horror in his inventory gave a small planar damage effect.

This way it worked as a vehicle to get you to post rifts smoother and ultimately allowed the player to either keep the Knabsack as a weapon or go with the Scythe or armor or not open rifts at all if you decided not to.