lack of consensus from the community on what direction to take for this update

[Dingle]

8 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

In this video, there are no mods (except for Color Adjustment), starting with Wortox, and obtaining a pearl within 5 days. No skill tree.
 https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1GS421w73R/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=f884ebc672791f945164ca8603a33ba8

Wortox's teleportation ability allows him to quickly obtain the Relic Chair blueprint and makes traveling to and from Crabby Hermit Island very convenient, saving a lot of time when rushing for the pearl.

Actually, I prefer Wickerbottom for pearl speedrunning. The Angler's Survival Guide and Wickerbottom's inherent technological advantages are also .

Saw the video, but had to skip around a bit so may have missed some details. How did he keep Pearl outside all that time? I assume it has something to do with trying to put a helmet on her. I always have to fence her in, instead.

It also makes me wonder if the runner has a system for finding the cookie cutters based on the map.

I still vastly prefer Wickerbottom for Pearl. The difference is consistency. "Can I reliably do this, or would I have to restart the world over and over and over to do this?" I wish there was a different name for these.

The common theme I see for Wortox Pearl speedruns is getting really absurd luck with the ocean stuff. Like "I get the heavy lure right away as a gift" AND "most of the fish around Pearl's island are heavy". If your luck is very, very high with the fish, you don't need the wickerbottom fish book.

I can't argue he's not good for this format though. Very short runs (so soul farming doesn't get annoying) + unlimited restarts (for ocean luck and RNG in general). It's just not relevant to normal play, while you could rush Pearl with Wickerbottom reliably in a real playthrough.

[Yifei_]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Saw the video, but had to skip around a bit so may have missed some details. How did he keep Pearl outside all that time? I assume it has something to do with trying to put a helmet on her. I always have to fence her in, instead.

It also makes me wonder if the runner has a system for finding the cookie cutters based on the map.

I still vastly prefer Wickerbottom for Pearl. The difference is consistency. "Can I reliably do this, or would I have to restart the world over and over and over to do this?" I wish there was a different name for these.

The common theme I see for Wortox Pearl speedruns is getting really absurd luck with the ocean stuff. Like "I get the heavy lure right away as a gift" AND "most of the fish around Pearl's island are heavy". If your luck is very, very high with the fish, you don't need the wickerbottom fish book.

I can't argue he's not good for this format though. Very short runs (so soul farming doesn't get annoying) + unlimited restarts (for ocean luck and RNG in general). It's just not relevant to normal play, while you could rush Pearl with Wickerbottom reliably in a real playthrough.

These two issues are indeed quite critical. The video creator has replied in the comment section, and I've briefly translated it:
"The compass points to salt, and salt deposits are usually located on the southwestern coast of the map. When Crabby Hermit is heading home, just give her an item to stall her and prevent her from returning (as she has behavior to move away from the player's base)."

To be honest, I haven't delved into speedrunning Pearl as much as the video creator, mainly because, as you mentioned, it relies too much on luck, which can be really frustrating. There was one time when I didn’t even see a single bottle for more than 10 days... Using Wickerbottom also has the downside of potentially missing the autumn rain, leaving no time to deliver an umbrella.

In my opinion, when it comes to speedrunning Pearl, Wickerbottom offers more consistency, while Wortox has a higher ceiling. However, when I choose Wickerbottom in a public server, I still prefer to use her for base-building and resource management, as that's where her greatest strengths lie.

[Dingle]

9 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

These two issues are indeed quite critical. The video creator has replied in the comment section, and I've briefly translated it:
"The compass points to salt, and salt deposits are usually located on the southwestern coast of the map. When Crabby Hermit is heading home, just give her an item to stall her and prevent her from returning (as she has behavior to move away from the player's base)."

Both very interesting! Yeah I was wondering why he made and used a compass, when I was watching.

9 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

To be honest, I haven't delved into speedrunning Pearl as much as the video creator, mainly because, as you mentioned, it relies too much on luck, which can be really frustrating. There was one time when I didn’t even see a single bottle for more than 10 days... Using Wickerbottom also has the downside of potentially missing the autumn rain, leaving no time to deliver an umbrella.

She has some alternatives. You could deconstruct a rainy day lure (if you get one for free, or get an extra bottle) and just make the rain summon book. Or you could find the mangrove ocean forest biome and use the Angler's book to get a heavy Fallounder, which lets you skip the rain point (or the chair to skip the ruins during the rush, if you get the rain).

The bottle luck thing is a whole other issue.

9 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

In my opinion, when it comes to speedrunning Pearl, Wickerbottom offers more consistency, while Wortox has a higher ceiling. However, when I choose Wickerbottom in a public server, I still prefer to use her for base-building and resource management, as that's where her greatest strengths lie.

"Fishing master" seems very apt haha.

[Yifei_]

7 minutes ago, Dingle said:

She has some alternatives. You could deconstruct a rainy day lure (if you get one for free, or get an extra bottle) and just make the rain summon book. Or you could find the mangrove ocean forest biome and use the Angler's book to get a heavy Fallounder, which lets you skip the rain point (or the chair to skip the ruins during the rush, if you get the rain).

The bottle luck thing is a whole other issue.

Yes, I’ve actually experienced this quite a few times when I was playing Wickerbottom and building a base. Speedrunning Pearl Wortox players would bring a Rainy Day Lure, a Deconstruction Staff, and a Construction Amulet, asking me to help craft a Practical Rain Rituals book. Some also relied on blue hound/red hound encounters (the ones that with an Ice Staff / Fire Staff) or just used a Telestaff to force rain directly.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Yifei_ said:

Yes, I’ve actually experienced this quite a few times when I was playing Wickerbottom and building a base. Speedrunning Pearl Wortox players would bring a Rainy Day Lure, a Deconstruction Staff, and a Construction Amulet, asking me to help craft a Practical Rain Rituals book. Some also relied on blue hound/red hound encounters (the ones that with an Ice Staff / Fire Staff) or just used a Telestaff to force rain directly.

I forgot to mention the last two. The telestaff one is really popular for many.

Fun Wickerbottom trick I've done before: If you build 2 or 3 trawlers in river near your base, you can very easily get 5 heavy fish by checking them with a pocket scale after summoning fish downstream. Takes 1 or 2 Angler's books (without breaking one). This lets you skip getting a heavy lure, or even leaving the base in multiplayer.

[Echsrick]

10 hours ago, yinjiu019 said:

bot...?

no, thats the truth

[Yaorin yon]

8 hours ago, Echsrick said:

no, thats the truth

There is only one fact, which is that Wendy's Skill Tree is a ball of uncoordinated noise

[Echsrick]

32 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

There is only one fact, which is that Wendy's Skill Tree is a ball of uncoordinated noise

from wich side?

[Yaorin yon]

39 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

from wich side?

I don't need to continue a boring binary opposition, feeling [beautiful things] is an innate ability of everyone.

Would you ask someone which part of sewage smells bad?

[Echsrick]

21 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

I don't need to continue a boring binary opposition, feeling [beautiful things] is an innate ability of everyone.

Would you ask someone which part of sewage smells bad?

calling real people bots is kind of rude you do know that yes?

[Yaorin yon]

6 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

calling real people bots is kind of rude you do know that yes?

What does this have to do with me? What is the connection between one person's comment making another person feel like the commenter is a robot and my review?

[Echsrick]

16 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

What does this have to do with me? What is the connection between one person's comment making another person feel like the commenter is a robot and my review?

i dont know i asked you a simple question and you are goin on about binarys

[Yaorin yon]

56 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i dont know i asked you a simple question and you are goin on about binarys

binarys? I didn't understand what you were saying, did you not understand the meaning of my expression?

 

Let me explain it in a simple and understandable way. I think Wendy's skill tree is done very poorly, and this difference is not due to players' differences in individual branches, but rather the overall poor thinking of Wendy's skill tree. Nowadays, many people's debates, including the initiator of this post, are only focused on individual branch differences, attempting to change a branch in an already distorted skill tree to make it more reasonable, but it is already unrealistic. As I mentioned earlier, a logically sound skill tree will only make people feel like 'it may not be what I want, but it is indeed beautiful', rather than 'it not only makes me feel unwanted, but it is also very ugly'. Persistently attributing the problem to 'Abigail targeting bosses/Abigail targeting minions' is just the most superficial idea.

Attributing the problem to conflicts between players rather than KLei's inadequate skill tree is a behavior of transferring conflicts and a correct nonsense.

[crushcircuit]

i just wish we had some way of knowing what to expect. while klei has been getting better at communciating their ideas during this beta, if they explained at the start what their aim is for each character's skill tree it would help tons with giving more constructive feedback. they have a tendency to just present what they have now, explain what it does, and not explain what the intentions behind it are. (they did this during the mid-beta stream, and i remember most of the people i know being rather disappointed by that, especially with the disparity in the focus given to each character's skill tree.)

i don't think that it's the community's fault for giving their feedback (although we can all agree that some people have, indeed, gone too far during this beta), when we aren't given anything to go off of in the first place. we should be giving honest feedback, we should be making posts about what we want for the characters, that's what the beta is here for. we just don't know what sort of feedback they want from us when it's left so open-ended like this.

i truly think this could all be solved by proper communication :'D

[SilverSpoon]

On 1/16/2025 at 12:59 AM, JJ0264 said:

Wendy is already pretty powerful, i don't see why she need to do more then what she's good at. Having Wendy/Abagail weaker (evasive) against most bosses and stronger (tanky) against large hordes of tiny mobs is solid direction

You are right, Wendy was good at combat so fixed the issue of Abigail was overly vulnerable against bosses. Also she isn't made too powerful outside of combat. So Klei knows about solid direction.

[Howie Liu]

People who oppose strengthening Wendy's skilltree generally don't play Wendy frequently.The only thing they know about Wendy is that she can fight spiders easily so for anyone who ever choose wendy to enter the game should always hunting spiders for fun and never try to fight bosses.I may be a bit exaggerated but this is currently the reason why most people think Wendy is too strong.The essence of a skilltree should be to enrich the playability of the character.For now wendy's skilltree doesn't thrill me at all.

[congrongfuguo]

4 hours ago, crushcircuit said:

i just wish we had some way of knowing what to expect. while klei has been getting better at communciating their ideas during this beta, if they explained at the start what their aim is for each character's skill tree it would help tons with giving more constructive feedback. they have a tendency to just present what they have now, explain what it does, and not explain what the intentions behind it are. (they did this during the mid-beta stream, and i remember most of the people i know being rather disappointed by that, especially with the disparity in the focus given to each character's skill tree.)

i don't think that it's the community's fault for giving their feedback (although we can all agree that some people have, indeed, gone too far during this beta), when we aren't given anything to go off of in the first place. we should be giving honest feedback, we should be making posts about what we want for the characters, that's what the beta is here for. we just don't know what sort of feedback they want from us when it's left so open-ended like this.

i truly think this could all be solved by proper communication :'D

Perhaps adding a Beta version of the conceptual design is a good idea （In the community）

 

·Announce what major crises adventurers will face in the current version

·Sort out the development trajectory of the character since entering this world

·Collect everyone's understanding of the characters and the problems encountered in life and adventure（There may be some votes）

·You can provide a draft design proposal or ask questions for everyone to think about possible directions for capability development and how to integrate them into a new survival strategy system.（maybe two system for players with different inclinations）

·Design core competencies and auxiliary skill points, and then allocate effective team skills and a few independent interesting ideas

·Design the structure of the skill tree and allocate skill points based on abilities and character stories.

·Finally, check the entire skill tree to correct the ineffective parts and remove the redundant parts. Discuss how to make different skill branches combine to produce richer effects. Collect various ideas about cleverly combining each ability with different game elements——then we will know if we got a good tree

 

 

 

[mima_]

i dont think consensus from forumite is needed, i really wish they just do what they think it fits. instead of getting specific influence on things that make things look out of characters.
outside from balancing the numbers. i think the design should up to the developer. gate keep the way game need to be designed might lose the "dont starve" feeling out of this game.

since its their game. they should know the best how to mould the game. if one said "this was not represent what this character really is!"  what if the lore presented before can be misleading? what if there would be a plot twist in the lore later or not, we never know. 

this is my view so u can think any other way, just stating my opinion. dont bother to reply hehe, peace.

[YouKnowWho142]

On 1/16/2025 at 10:52 PM, crushcircuit said:

i just wish we had some way of knowing what to expect. while klei has been getting better at communciating their ideas during this beta, if they explained at the start what their aim is for each character's skill tree it would help tons with giving more constructive feedback. they have a tendency to just present what they have now, explain what it does, and not explain what the intentions behind it are. (they did this during the mid-beta stream, and i remember most of the people i know being rather disappointed by that, especially with the disparity in the focus given to each character's skill tree.)

i don't think that it's the community's fault for giving their feedback (although we can all agree that some people have, indeed, gone too far during this beta), when we aren't given anything to go off of in the first place. we should be giving honest feedback, we should be making posts about what we want for the characters, that's what the beta is here for. we just don't know what sort of feedback they want from us when it's left so open-ended like this.

i truly think this could all be solved by proper communication :'D

I entirely agree and I think phrases it way better than what i was trying to say. I think the biggest misstep for this beta was just the fact that nobody really knows what to expect for the characters, and we don't really have a lot of knowledge on what their vision for each character is either. I think that also explains why people are so varied on their views for every character since no one is really sure what these characters should be and represent as a result of their skill trees

[kroban]

On 1/14/2025 at 5:59 PM, YouKnowWho142 said:

there is very little agreement on what role Wendy and Walter should be and what their skill tree should be

I dont think thats the case for Walter, from what I've read on most posts about him, the mayority agrees that his skill tree should be slingshot, woby, and camping stuff (and according to Klei they are working on camping rn).

Theres some rare exceptions of people trashing on ALL the skill tree but ngl, as a main Walter myself, I think that type of people either never played Walter for more than 2 hours, hasnt tried the skill tree in beta yet, or are basing all their arguments purely out of watching Lardee's video trashing on Walter (the whole "hE jUzT hOldiNG F dOoD" room temperature IQ argument).