wortox Please replace Cloudy Carmine

[Dingle]

Cloudy Carmine feels like a weak filler skill, but it's a capstone skill. In my testing of it, it really does not seem like it's worth a point for me. Please replace that perk with a new one. I have some ideas below.

I think it's really telling that even people that like the panflute skills as a concept, in the recently bumped panflute skills thread, tend to momentarily forget that Cloudy Carmine even exists.

I usually talk more about the negatives of a perk, but I think it's pretty obvious for this one. It's a leftover of the start of beta Neutral perk design. Two very weak perks just got merged into one very weak perk.

Ideas to replace Cloudy Carmine:

1. Pan flute uses for Wortox take 7% durability instead of 10%

2. One pan flute in Wortox's inventory very slowly regenerates durability.

3. Pan flute uses add some kind of buff effect for Wortox and allies.

4. Pan flute uses add some kind of longer term debuff effect to enemies, beyond the sleep.

5. The free pan flute use from the first Neutral perk regenerates faster.

6. Keep the old Carmine effect, but it also summons 3 souls. So if you get both Neutral pan flute capstone perks, you get 9 souls per pan flute toot.

As for the old Carmine perk, outside of idea #6, it could be merged with either other pan flute perk. Or just removed.

[Hollow soul 3]

Maybe an alt recipe for a wortox only panflute

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Maybe an alt recipe for a wortox only panflute

I like those ideas too, I see them sometimes. I didn't repeat this because I suggested the same thing on the launch of beta. The devs didn't seem to go for it.

My other suggestion was for a Dripple Pipes perk.

[Hollow soul 3]

True, but if it's popular enough, they usually listen pretty well.

I think the real shame is how it's so flat right now, it's just getting ignored.

[Dingle]

I also really wish that there were more than 3 Neutral perks.

It seems like they could have done a lot, even just with the panflute concept.

This could also help a lot with build variety issues, for late game and especially solo builds. If neutral was more fleshed out, it would be a place you could put more points in that weren't the multiplayer centered Nice. The viable solo builds are all Naughty.

[crushcircuit]

i think cloudy carmine could definitely be replaced with something more useful, but if they do decide to keep it as-is they desperately need the mob grogginess to extend to other players - it feels downright unfair when i'm in co-op and cloudy carmen causes the mob to just aggro on somebody else instead

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, crushcircuit said:

i think cloudy carmine could definitely be replaced with something more useful, but if they do decide to keep it as-is they desperately need the mob grogginess to extend to other players - it feels downright unfair when i'm in co-op and cloudy carmen causes the mob to just aggro on somebody else instead

Lol. Awful.

[Echsrick]

On 1/8/2025 at 6:58 AM, Dingle said:

I also really wish that there were more than 3 Neutral perks.

what i wonder, the alligmend ones are in the middle like neutral but they dont count as nautral wich maybe that sould be considered

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

what i wonder, the alligmend ones are in the middle like neutral but they dont count as nautral wich maybe that sould be considered

I dont know what you mean by this one.

[Echsrick]

7 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I dont know what you mean by this one.

 the affinity skills are in the middle just like the neutral ones, maybe it can do something like the neutral affinity skills like workin for the locks aswell, or well, re arrange skills like so 2 knap sacks, and 2 soul jars are seperated from differend branches, so the teleport skills sould alsol get rearranged

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Echsrick said:

 the affinity skills are in the middle just like the neutral ones, maybe it can do something like the neutral affinity skills like workin for the locks aswell, or well, re arrange skills like so 2 knap sacks, and 2 soul jars are seperated from differend branches, so the teleport skills sould alsol get rearranged

I was really happy with what they did to the affinity skills: they make Naughty and Nice inclinations trigger on a 2 point difference instead of 3.

[Jakepeng99]

On 1/6/2025 at 3:27 PM, Hollow soul 3 said:

Maybe an alt recipe for a wortox only panflute

I dislike this idea.

 

[Hollow soul 3]

Eh, I'm not too attached to it. Honestly, I don't mind the free use, but I wish the other two were stand alone perks not related to the flute. That's just doesn't seem likely.

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Eh, I'm not too attached to it. Honestly, I don't mind the free use, but I wish the other two were stand alone perks not related to the flute. That's just doesn't seem likely.

I'm ok with it all being pan flute related, though don't strongly care either way. Though I dimly wish there was some sort of new way to get mandrakes. Mostly for pug world players.

Something difficult is fine, but less RNG based (like Klaus is) and not seasonal event based (sleeping under the tree).

 

[Hollow soul 3]

That's really where I'm at. I prefer default world without events. Maybe if wortox had a way to craft mandrakes. Mixing plants and souls or something.

[Echsrick]

3 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Eh, I'm not too attached to it. Honestly, I don't mind the free use, but I wish the other two were stand alone perks not related to the flute. That's just doesn't seem likely.

honestly, yea, neutral realy is more so panflute team instead of team neutrall....but what else could we replace the other 2 flute skills for neutrality?

[Hollow soul 3]

Extra map info maybe or a soul lantern

[Dingle]

17 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

That's really where I'm at. I prefer default world without events. Maybe if wortox had a way to craft mandrakes. Mixing plants and souls or something.

Maybe something where Krampuseses have a chance to drop a mandrake? Or a boss kill has a mandrake grow near it? I dunno, I imagine it just can't be crafted out of souls due to a pan flute being worth a lot of souls due to Pastorale.

13 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Extra map info maybe or a soul lantern

I don't like these much. Mostly because an existing problem I see with Pastorale (aka: the good Neutral perk) is that it's already more of an early game perk. You outgrow it as soon as you get jars and good soul farm going.

It would be nice if new Neutral perks were better for the long term. Even better if it actually competed with Pastorale, in a way where you don't necessarily need to get both.

My own favorite idea for this is having one flute in your inventory slowly regenerate. That way you'd feel better about using it occasionally as a tool beyond the one free toot every 8 minutes, without having to eventually rely on deconstruction staff.

[Hollow soul 3]

36 minutes ago, Dingle said:

My own favorite idea for this is having one flute in your inventory slowly regenerate. That way you'd feel better about using it occasionally as a tool beyond the one free toot every 8 minutes, without having to eventually rely on deconstruction staff.

Eh, at that point who needs the free toot. Kind of does the same thing better just.