Gestalt Abigail & Wendy's skill tree- I like it

[viblym]

Finally taking the time to try out Wendy's skill tree in this beta. I didn't have any particular interest in doing it at first as my investments were more in Wortox and Walter. Wortox got a near perfect skill tree on the beta opening, and Walter's skill tree is going to get some revamping in January. Wendy already has a massive playerbase and I felt throwing in my two cents might not be entirely necessary as I didn't like playing her. I have played Wendy before and I do visit her every so often, I do know how to play her- I just didn't like her, so I stayed out of most discussions for her character. But now that I'm trying Wendy out with her skill tree I've got to say I LOVE playing Wendy now.

The biggest appealing factor for me is Gestalt Abigail, the way Abigail usually controls felt too clunky for me to effectively utilize her in many fights, particularly bosses. There always is and always was a way to use Abigail in these kinds of fights, but it asked for a level of maneuvering and micromanagement that wasn't fun for me- too much effort for too little an impact.  Gestalt Abigail has insane survivability, but don't get me wrong I'm always keeping an eye on her; when she gets low I still make her evade, de-summon her, and/or heal her. In combat there's an immense level of satisfaction I get from letting Gestalt Abbey land a hit, then commanding her to charge, by the time she's done with her charge she's ready to attack again, I get consistent damage from Gestalt Abigail and I don't have to worry about the loss of her AoE thanks to her charge attack being able to hit multiple targets. I can do this in combat without skipping much of a beat, the one thing I'd ask for is for the command whisper animation to be quicker, it does not bother me much at all however. I don't mind ceasing my attacks for a second to command Abigail. I didn't try Gestalt Abigail before she got her damage nerfed, her damage right now feels perfect, but her charge attack damage is very low.

So far I've killed Toadstool twice, Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Twins twice, Celestial Champion, Shadow Chess Trio, Ancient Fuelweaver, Three Deerclopses, Three Crystal Deerclopses, Mutated Varg, Bearger, and Armored Bearger with Gestalt Abigail. I haven't gotten her killed once and it feels AWESOME.

Grave skills feel good, but I think it's an issue with replanting graves that have been dug that I'm not able to remove the hole/mound afterwards. I understand that this might be the case to prevent players from getting additional objects from the graves by replanting them, but the holes are unsightly. My suggestion is for Wendy to be able to put petals, lune blossoms, glow berries, and lightfruit into the grave much like one would plant those objects in a End Table, with similar functionality. Ideally this perk wouldn't require grave beautification, in fact I'd adore if every player could be able to do this- it feels like something so sweet and cute that you could do for graves. Wendy would still be the only one able to relocate and use the actual grave beautification perk, meaning players with pre-existing graveyard builds, or even one a Wendy setup for them would be able to have a beautiful and peaceful graveyard. I might post this idea on its own since I love it so much.

Picnic Casket is awesome. That's all. I love storage solutions for stuff like this. I have a slot for my Mourning Glories and a slot for my potions, though sometimes I will carry a Spectral Cure-All on its own so I can apply it faster in emergencies. The stack size for potions could be improved for me. It might be silly but being able to get infinite potion stack sizes in the casket using the Picnic Casket via Elastispacer might be nice for post rift players, but this would be a frivolous upgrade (I'd also ask if it were to be a thing that it'd be part of the Picnic Casket perk, and not separate)

When building my skill tree I assumed I'd utilize Wendy's Mourning Glory collection perks and then swap once I've built up a large supply, but I think the aspect of getting Mourning Glories... Somewhat entertaining? I have been keeping this perk.

Wraith's Wreath. Fun for friends! If Vigor Mortis applied additional speed to players on top of their already existing speed multiplier I'd like it even more.

I am still somewhat sad the flower shroud has been deprecated, I don't care for its utility as much as I cared for its spritework, and I hope it can make a return as a item or even a skin.

I'd like it if Lunar Aligned Wendy or just Wendy as a whole could use Mourning Glories to resurrect Moon Moths with the Mourning Glory 1 perk. This could be... so fantastic... It'd work perfectly with her Lune Blossom Sisturn perk and make me so happy, I love lune trees and I love Lunar Island's ecosystem, it's very frequently destroyed in servers so having a quicker way of reforesting or even making my own lune trees outside of Hallowed Nights would make me overjoyed.
Vengeful ghost doesn't have much utility to me but I can absolutely see its utility for newer players and don't mind it at all as a standalone perk. BUT I have had issues with players accidentally killing Glommer, Chester, and the Friendly Fruit Fly. In one instance with others, a player died to a Terrorbeak while tabbed out watching a video (It's my fault, I told him to look), he was at our sanity station, which Glommer was placed at who got killed by his Ghost AoE, and since it was counted as a player kill it summoned Krampii, who killed our Willow. It was pretty hilarious but having Glommer and Chester (upgraded or not) feels REALLY bad.

I'm still very surprised that Wendy's skill tree gave Abigail a new form that was appealing to me. Klei did a fantastic job with Gestalt Abigail and I am adding Wendy to my roster of "Frequently Played" characters for the future.

I know this topic is also popular with the Chinese community, so if any parts of my post don't make sense in translation, just point out the message and I can rephrase it and hope it translates better

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, viblym said:

Finally taking the time to try out Wendy's skill tree in this beta. I didn't have any particular interest in doing it at first as my investments were more in Wortox and Walter. Wortox got a near perfect skill tree on the beta opening, and Walter's skill tree is going to get some revamping in January. Wendy already has a massive playerbase and I felt throwing in my two cents might not be entirely necessary as I didn't like playing her. I have played Wendy before and I do visit her every so often, I do know how to play her- I just didn't like her, so I stayed out of most discussions for her character. But now that I'm trying Wendy out with her skill tree I've got to say I LOVE playing Wendy now.

The biggest appealing factor for me is Gestalt Abigail, the way Abigail usually controls felt too clunky for me to effectively utilize her in many fights, particularly bosses. There always is and always was a way to use Abigail in these kinds of fights, but it asked for a level of maneuvering and micromanagement that wasn't fun for me- too much effort for too little an impact.  Gestalt Abigail has insane survivability, but don't get me wrong I'm always keeping an eye on her; when she gets low I still make her evade, de-summon her, and/or heal her. In combat there's an immense level of satisfaction I get from letting Gestalt Abbey land a hit, then commanding her to charge, by the time she's done with her charge she's ready to attack again, I get consistent damage from Gestalt Abigail and I don't have to worry about the loss of her AoE thanks to her charge attack being able to hit multiple targets. I can do this in combat without skipping much of a beat, the one thing I'd ask for is for the command whisper animation to be quicker, it does not bother me much at all however. I don't mind ceasing my attacks for a second to command Abigail. I didn't try Gestalt Abigail before she got her damage nerfed, her damage right now feels perfect, but her charge attack damage is very low.

So far I've killed Toadstool twice, Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Twins twice, Celestial Champion, Shadow Chess Trio, Ancient Fuelweaver, Three Deerclopses, Three Crystal Deerclopses, Mutated Varg, Bearger, and Armored Bearger with Gestalt Abigail. I haven't gotten her killed once and it feels AWESOME.

Grave skills feel good, but I think it's an issue with replanting graves that have been dug that I'm not able to remove the hole/mound afterwards. I understand that this might be the case to prevent players from getting additional objects from the graves by replanting them, but the holes are unsightly. My suggestion is for Wendy to be able to put petals, lune blossoms, glow berries, and lightfruit into the grave much like one would plant those objects in a End Table, with similar functionality. Ideally this perk wouldn't require grave beautification, in fact I'd adore if every player could be able to do this- it feels like something so sweet and cute that you could do for graves. Wendy would still be the only one able to relocate and use the actual grave beautification perk, meaning players with pre-existing graveyard builds, or even one a Wendy setup for them would be able to have a beautiful and peaceful graveyard. I might post this idea on its own since I love it so much.

Picnic Casket is awesome. That's all. I love storage solutions for stuff like this. I have a slot for my Mourning Glories and a slot for my potions, though sometimes I will carry a Revenant Restorative on its own so I can apply it faster in emergencies. The stack size for potions could be improved for me. It might be silly but being able to get infinite potion stack sizes in the casket using the Picnic Casket via Elastispacer might be nice for post rift players, but this would be a frivolous upgrade (I'd also ask if it were to be a thing that it'd be part of the Picnic Casket perk, and not separate)

When building my skill tree I assumed I'd utilize Wendy's Mourning Glory collection perks and then swap once I've built up a large supply, but I think the aspect of getting Mourning Glories... Somewhat entertaining? I have been keeping this perk.

Wraith's Wreath. Fun for friends! If Vigor Mortis applied additional speed to players on top of their already existing speed multiplier I'd like it even more.

I am still somewhat sad the flower shroud has been deprecated, I don't care for its utility as much as I cared for its spritework, and I hope it can make a return as a item or even a skin.

I'd like it if Lunar Aligned Wendy or just Wendy as a whole could use Mourning Glories to resurrect Moon Moths with the Mourning Glory 1 perk. This could be... so fantastic... It'd work perfectly with her Lune Blossom Sisturn perk and make me so happy, I love lune trees and I love Lunar Island's ecosystem, it's very frequently destroyed in servers so having a quicker way of reforesting or even making my own lune trees outside of Hallowed Nights would make me overjoyed.

Vengeful ghost doesn't have much utility to me but I can absolutely see its utility for newer players and don't mind it at all as a standalone perk. BUT I have had issues with players accidentally killing Glommer, Chester, and the Friendly Fruit Fly. In one instance with others, a player died to a Terrorbeak while tabbed out watching a video (It's my fault, I told him to look), he was at our sanity station, which Glommer was placed at who got killed by his Ghost AoE, and since it was counted as a player kill it summoned Krampii, who killed our Willow. It was pretty hilarious but having Glommer and Chester (upgraded or not) feels REALLY bad.

I'm still very surprised that Wendy's skill tree gave Abigail a new form that was appealing to me. Klei did a fantastic job with Gestalt Abigail and I am adding Wendy to my roster of "Frequently Played" characters for the future.

I know this topic is also popular with the Chinese community, so if any parts of my post don't make sense in translation, just point out the message and I can rephrase it and hope it translates better

Interesting to hear about Gestalt abigail!

I haven't bothered as I figure currently shadow abigail is a lot more min-maxy efficient due to Sisturn 3. I just had her facetank fuelweaver with cure alls in my playthrough. It was maybe among the worst fuelweaver I have ever done, I think, as I didn't practice beforehand and haven't fought him for a long time. But I still won haha. I'm curious as to how gestalt abigail compares for FW specifically.

I'm also curious as to how resurrecting lune moths would help much. I just catch them with a bug net. I may be misunderstanding something.

[viblym]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Interesting to hear about Gestalt abigail!

I haven't bothered as I figure currently shadow abigail is a lot more min-maxy efficient due to Sisturn 3. I just had her facetank fuelweaver with cure alls in my playthrough. It was maybe among the worst fuelweaver I have ever done, I think, as I didn't practice beforehand and haven't fought him for a long time. But I still won haha. I'm curious as to how gestalt abigail compares for FW specifically.

I'm also curious as to how resurrecting lune moths would help much. I just catch them with a bug net. I may be misunderstanding something.

I imagine once you get a bit more back into practice with AFW you could melt him with Shadow Abigail, I'm lunar purist (kinda) so I don't really know how Shadow Abbey works but I've seen that she's REALLY good.

And yeah you can just use a bug net but you could also catch butterflies with a bugnet anyways

[Dingle]

11 minutes ago, viblym said:

I imagine once you get a bit more back into practice with AFW you could melt him with Shadow Abigail, I'm lunar purist (kinda) so I don't really know how Shadow Abbey works but I've seen that she's REALLY good.

And yeah you can just use a bug net but you could also catch butterflies with a bugnet anyways

I see.

I meant Shadow Abby is so strong that I messed up the fight over and over, but still won. She pretty much carried me. Any other character would have died, except I guess Wurt with her army.

I was wondering how Gestalt abby could even compare to shadow + player tag abby. How many resources did it take you for FW?

[Vasz_]

1 hour ago, viblym said:

I am still somewhat sad the flower shroud has been deprecated, I don't care for its utility as much as I cared for its spritework, and I hope it can make a return as a item or even a skin.

Agreed 100%. I loved how it looks, if not as an item I really hope we can get it as skin (for a decent item, not Grass Suit or something like that)

[WenericMember]

23 minutes ago, viblym said:

I imagine once you get a bit more back into practice with AFW you could melt him with Shadow Abigail, I'm lunar purist (kinda) so I don't really know how Shadow Abbey works but I've seen that she's REALLY good.

And yeah you can just use a bug net but you could also catch butterflies with a bugnet anyways

Shadow purist here lol. I'm glad Lunar Abby's in a good state.Wendy's alignments have a cool dichotomy and the skill in  a vacuum being good is great for her tree.

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the team spirit skills, along with the perennial altar?

 

 

[Koomin]

Definitely agree that Gestalt Abigail has landed in a great place survivability and damage wise, and is a cool design and new type of playstyle.  It being overtuned at one point seems to have affected perception in a negative way, but I too have found it to be in a perfect spot while fighting bosses.  She lives far longer than normal Abigail and really alleviates the micromanagement, while not removing it to a point that it is no longer interesting.  I think once people have a chance to try it out more it will rise in popularity, and suspect currently people are likely just spawning in bosses and seeing it be weaker than before.  The design of switching forms at the full moon is also a great touch.

[viblym]

On 12/27/2024 at 5:26 PM, Dingle said:

I see.

I meant Shadow Abby is so strong that I messed up the fight over and over, but still won. She pretty much carried me. Any other character would have died, except I guess Wurt with her army.

I was wondering how Gestalt abby could even compare to shadow + player tag abby. How many resources did it take you for FW?

I'm not sure if I'd count my AFW since I was post lunar rift and had that gear, maybe 1-2 Spectral Cure all, and the usual AFW equipment I like to bring, decent armor, bee queen crown, some healing, etc. You can still exclude other methods of killing the Woven Shadows thanks to her charge command, but you might get overwhelmed just as easily if you're not careful

[WenericMember]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

I see.

I meant Shadow Abby is so strong that I messed up the fight over and over, but still won. She pretty much carried me. Any other character would have died, except I guess Wurt with her army.

I was wondering how Gestalt abby could even compare to shadow + player tag abby. How many resources did it take you for FW?

Out of curiosity, were you using blessed sisturn 3? If so, thats on BS3, not alignments.

It's a fairly common sentiment to make shadow abigail and blessed sisturn 3 mutually exclusive.

[Dingle]

29 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Out of curiosity, were you using blessed sisturn 3? If so, thats on BS3, not alignments.

It's a fairly common sentiment to make shadow abigail and blessed sisturn 3 mutually exclusive.

Yeah, I was using blessed sisturn 3.

Makes sense. I currently just don't see the point of picking anything else but shadow, due to the existence of sisturn 3 making Abby super tanky anyway (for bosses it works on).

Here's a long post on my FW fight with shadow Abby + Vex + Sisturn 3 by the way. I use 5 cure alls, but a pretty small amount of other resources:

 

 

[WenericMember]

7 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Yeah, I was using blessed sisturn 3.

Makes sense. I currently just don't see the point of picking anything else but shadow, due to the existence of sisturn 3 making Abby super tanky anyway (for bosses it works on).

Here's a long post on my FW fight with shadow Abby + Vex + Sisturn 3 by the way. I use 5 cure alls, but a pretty small amount of other resources:

 

 

Yeah, I agree. The alignments are in a pretty good balance in a vaccuum, but Blessed sisturn breaks that balance.

[Lee lol]

It's great that Abi didn't die once. I want to know if you use Bless Sisturn 3 in the battle with the boss?

I absolutely agree with your idea of beautifying the grave. Wendy can reset the grave by mourning the glory, or grass and branches, whatever it is - it is not a bad thing to regain the things in the grave, because in fact, gems and nightmare fuel are not scarce in the later stage, but this may affect the speedrun, idk

About the team spirit escape command, do you find that the invincible frame occasionally doesn't work when you use it? Some people say so. In addition, I would like to know what tips or suggestions you have when using team spirit can help us use the gestalt better.

I still think that the resurrection altar should have some extra functions, such as bringing things back after death.

I would be very happy if they could add some interesting interactions to the pipspook line, but I won't ask them to do so.

[viblym]

2 hours ago, Lee lol said:

It's great that Abi didn't die once. I want to know if you use Bless Sisturn 3 in the battle with the boss?

I absolutely agree with your idea of beautifying the grave. Wendy can reset the grave by mourning the glory, or grass and branches, whatever it is - it is not a bad thing to regain the things in the grave, because in fact, gems and nightmare fuel are not scarce in the later stage, but this may affect the speedrun, idk

About the team spirit escape command, do you find that the invincible frame occasionally doesn't work when you use it? Some people say so. In addition, I would like to know what tips or suggestions you have when using team spirit can help us use the gestalt better.

I still think that the resurrection altar should have some extra functions, such as bringing things back after death.

I would be very happy if they could add some interesting interactions to the pipspook line, but I won't ask them to do so.

I do use Blessed Sisturn 3 and I like the skills implementation. I also agree that grave beautification resources are more partial to early game, currently I get most gems and trinkets from Dragonfly and Ruins. I haven't used escape in fights actually, I just buff Abigail with Revenant Restorative and make her charge away for a moment, very sorry I can't give advice on Team Spirit.

As for resurrection alter (Perennial Altar) I'll try to think of some utility for it and suggest it if I can think of something good that'd give it more utility than a Meat Effigy.

[Yeah_No]

I agree! Wendy's skilltree is very good and I'm extremely satisfied with it as it, as (to my surprise) it was the skilltree I was most excited about once the beta was announced. Pipspook quests definitely aren't as much of a chore as I thought they were, so I also agree with wanting to keep the pipspook skills

While I wish gestalt abby had some changes (which are more for personal preference anyways), I'm still very happy with her as it is. Her damage is enough, and her not requiring as much micromanaging is appealing. She's very good in boss fights, and I'm glad you had fun with her when fighting those bosses since I've also had a lot of fun utilising her, especially for fights she wasn't too good in before (such as klaus as the AoE would previously be too risky for me with the deer. Non-riled gestalt abby worked perfectly for that fight). I also love using charge with her, it helps keep her active and makes fighting while interacting with her a lot of fun.

I love the idea of getting to put various plants into graves - it would make creating peaceful areas with the gravestones much nicer, especially with glow berries or lightbulbs lighting up the area more naturally. Would also make me feel better about wanting to dig up graves with a Wendy around.