To those who want to nerf abigail: what is it you want?

[yinjiu019]

In different places, you can always see different people with different opinions... Most of them are contradictory.
Maybe we should sit down and discuss it seriously?
(I like a friendly and relaxed environment, please don't embarrass me (u‿ฺu✿ฺ))
If you want to publish, please be clear and prove your own opinions.

Likewise, if you think someone’s opinion is wrong, please take the initiative to prove it.

My most urgent need is to change lunar abi back to the second beta version.
At that time, I could do it almost seldom to take back abi, and the scene of two people helping each other was completely in line with my imagination of the two sisters. Neither is indispensable.
Although abigail can deal with most bosses now, the complicated operations and extremely low degree of freedom make the game process very torturous. The tolerance rate is even lower.
I can do it, but I like the casual game mode
It's better to say that I come to DST to travel...
When fighting Armored Bearger, without abigail, I can kill with a sickle at a speed of 59 seconds. Of course, this is an extreme case. Looking at all the characters, the dps I caused is the lowest among all the characters.
With Abigail, it can be done, but the result is that they drag each other down... This is what I don't want to see the most.
A lot of rigid operations and lower DPS with the same proficiency
This is what I see.
I am not simply dissatisfied with the current situation, but we once had a comfortable Abigail, so I want to return to that state again.
Some people say that the previous lunar Abi can fight many bosses alone, I have never tried this
Why not make some minor adjustments to prevent her from doing so?
This may be a bit boring, but it is quite friendly to some newbies.
My thoughts on this are that it's all right
ヾ(^▽^*)))
Then I just want everyone to express their thoughts, that's it?

[hyoton123]

Sure, I love giving my thoughts. My thought is that if you are killing armored bearger in 1 minute of your year out of 560, assuming you do it in the first place (which you eventually won’t in a world, probably) then I don’t think that mandates any changes to abigail via skilltree, at all. The skilltree should therefore be focused on new styles of play or QOL.

[yinjiu019]

31 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Sure, I love giving my thoughts. My thought is that if you are killing armored bearger in 1 minute of your year out of 560, assuming you do it in the first place (which you eventually won’t in a world, probably) then I don’t think that mandates any changes to abigail via skilltree, at all. The skilltree should therefore be focused on new styles of play or QOL.

I want Abigail's company...＞﹏＜

[hyoton123]

Just now, yinjiu019 said:

I want Abigail's company...＞﹏＜

So, you want a Critter?

[yinjiu019]

2 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

So, you want a Critter?

No, I don't have any feelings for them...
When dealing with some bosses, using and protecting Abigail may cause less damage than using Wes.
And the previous Lunar Abi didn't have this problem...
Since I had it before, why wouldn't I want her?

ヾ(≧へ≦)

[thesooz9000]

4 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

No, I don't have any feelings for them...
When dealing with some bosses, using and protecting Abigail may cause less damage than using Wes.
And the previous Lunar Abi didn't have this problem...
Since I had it before, why wouldn't I want her?

ヾ(≧へ≦)

So you enjoyed the gestalt abi that could solo all the bosses...?

[Koomin]

Just now, yinjiu019 said:

No, I don't have any feelings for them...
When dealing with some bosses, using and protecting Abigail may cause less damage than using Wes.
And the previous Lunar Abi didn't have this problem...
Since I had it before, why wouldn't I want her?

ヾ(≧へ≦)

It is a beta.  They are trying to get the abilities set to the right power and sometimes mess up.  You should try not to get attached to them like this until they actually are released.  The previous Lunar Abi was way too strong and was adjusted to prevent Abigail from just surviving forever with no effort.  It sounds like you have the ability to keep Abigail alive with the current version, but just don't like having to put in the effort and would like her to survive without you doing anything, which is not a very convincing argument.

[layangan putus]

47 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Sure, I love giving my thoughts. My thought is that if you are killing armored bearger in 1 minute of your year out of 560, assuming you do it in the first place (which you eventually won’t in a world, probably) then I don’t think that mandates any changes to abigail via skilltree, at all. The skilltree should therefore be focused on new styles of play or QOL.

I agree few solutions made by dev for unique encounters can potentially define certain playstyle to be dominant but there is a cause for this which is after dev team add more complex scenarios, the current available skills as solutions must follow just for the sake of solving few complex puzzles. The problem appears when people use the solutions not for the intended puzzle but lesser than that which appears to be "overpowered" - I can follow up with example from another game if you don't get my explanation.

Furthermore, the combination of Blessed Sisturn III & Spectral Cure-All by itself needs at least 12 skill points to be reasonable enough to use:

• 3 point for Blessed Sisturn III: core skill
• 3 points for Pipspook Quest III: for mourning glories
• 4 points for Extra Yield: less grindy
• 2 points for Gravestones by Wendy: consistent pipspook quest

This will take at least 53 days of survival for 12 Insight if the players outside forum manage to figure this combo without using meta knowledge. Of course you can choose skills better than I do for this specific build. So is the combination of Abi player tag & Spectral Cure-All really that bad of a design vs its actual setup?

[yinjiu019]

8 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

So you enjoyed the gestalt abi that could solo all the bosses...?

I clearly said that I have never tried to let Abigail fight bosses alone.
And I don't mind losing this cheating function...
You don't seem to understand what I said very well.
(*≧︶≦))(￣▽￣* )ゞ

[hyoton123]

17 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

No, I don't have any feelings for them...
When dealing with some bosses, using and protecting Abigail may cause less damage than using Wes.
And the previous Lunar Abi didn't have this problem...
Since I had it before, why wouldn't I want her?

ヾ(≧へ≦)

Oh no, first wendy was wes; now she’s worse than wes!

 

I’m channelling my inner willow here: who cares if you have to desummon your follower for the one minute of your life it takes to kill armored bearger. Even if true (and it isnt, you could resummon in stun or in beta use dodges or use sisturn 3), It’s just a total nonissue in the first place. 

 

(weirdly, the boss that abigail is an actual negative on, and where you shouldnt use her, never seems to come up in these conversations).

 

edit the second: i think the crowd demands embalming spritz on abigail

[Lee lol]

9 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It is a beta.  They are trying to get the abilities set to the right power and sometimes mess up.  You should try not to get attached to them like this until they actually are released.  The previous Lunar Abi was way too strong and was adjusted to prevent Abigail from just surviving forever with no effort.  It sounds like you have the ability to keep Abigail alive with the current version, but just don't like having to put in the effort and would like her to survive without you doing anything, which is not a very convincing argument.

What she means is to call back the invincible frame/Ai/flexibility of Gestart Abi, but to prevent Gestal solo boss by requiring more player participation.

[hyoton123]

8 minutes ago, DST enjoyer said:

I agree few solutions made by dev for unique encounters can potentially define certain playstyle to be dominant but there is a cause for this which is after dev team add more complex scenarios, the current available skills as solutions must follow just for the sake of solving few complex puzzles. The problem appears when people use the solutions not for the intended puzzle but lesser than that which appears to be "overpowered" - I can follow up with example from another game if you don't get my explanation.

Furthermore, the combination of Blessed Sisturn III & Spectral Cure-All by itself needs at least 12 skill points to be reasonable enough to use:

• 3 point for Blessed Sisturn III: core skill
• 3 points for Pipspook Quest III: for mourning glories
• 4 points for Extra Yield: less grindy
• 2 points for Gravestones by Wendy: consistent pipspook quest

This will take at least 53 days of survival for 12 Insight if the players outside forum manage to figure this combo without using meta knowledge. Of course you can choose skills better than I do for this specific build. So is the combination of Abi player tag & Spectral Cure-All really that bad of a design vs its actual setup?

Those are all perfectly fine skills except sisturn 3 so yes, bad design.

[layangan putus]

Just now, hyoton123 said:

Those are all perfectly fine skills except sisturn 3 so yes, bad design.

Why is blessed sisturn 3 a bad design? What part of it that you don't like? How should one fight the boss according to you? Because Abi player tag can really promote the twins playstyle with few managements to fit casual playstyle against bosses.

[thesooz9000]

17 minutes ago, DST enjoyer said:

I agree few solutions made by dev for unique encounters can potentially define certain playstyle to be dominant but there is a cause for this which is after dev team add more complex scenarios, the current available skills as solutions must follow just for the sake of solving few complex puzzles. The problem appears when people use the solutions not for the intended puzzle but lesser than that which appears to be "overpowered" - I can follow up with example from another game if you don't get my explanation.

Furthermore, the combination of Blessed Sisturn III & Spectral Cure-All by itself needs at least 12 skill points to be reasonable enough to use:

• 3 point for Blessed Sisturn III: core skill
• 3 points for Pipspook Quest III: for mourning glories
• 4 points for Extra Yield: less grindy
• 2 points for Gravestones by Wendy: consistent pipspook quest

This will take at least 53 days of survival for 12 Insight if the players outside forum manage to figure this combo without using meta knowledge. Of course you can choose skills better than I do for this specific build. So is the combination of Abi player tag & Spectral Cure-All really that bad of a design vs its actual setup?

All characters need skill points for their perks, and all of them have to spend days to obtain insight points, this point is moot.

[yinjiu019]

13 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It is a beta.  They are trying to get the abilities set to the right power and sometimes mess up.  You should try not to get attached to them like this until they actually are released.  The previous Lunar Abi was way too strong and was adjusted to prevent Abigail from just surviving forever with no effort.  It sounds like you have the ability to keep Abigail alive with the current version, but just don't like having to put in the effort and would like her to survive without you doing anything, which is not a very convincing argument.

No, I just hope that there won't be a situation where I am worse off than myself in order to keep Abigail alive.
I am indeed lazy, but Wendy's tolerance is indeed the lowest, especially when there are few potions.
It is indeed a balance problem that Abi can survive effortlessly. It would be better to make more updates to add new content to challenge the flexible lunar Abi like before. This will be good for both of us~

o(*￣︶￣*)o

[Koomin]

5 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

What she means is to call back the invincible frame/Ai/flexibility of Gestart Abi, but to prevent Gestal solo boss by requiring more player participation.

I understood what the intent was, yea.  The issue with Gestalt Abigail was that she just would never die with that invincible frame/Ai/flexibility.  It made managing Abigail and any actual skill or effort from trying to work together with her or command her useless, since she didn't need it.  You could just ignore her completely and she would stay alive and help you.  The fun part of Wendy's design is fighting as yourself, while also being responsible for Abigail and working to keep her alive so that both of you combined are stronger.  It is no longer fun to just have an Abigail that stays alive no matter what like a critter. If there is no effort at all to keep her alive, then the fun part of the character is gone.

[hyoton123]

3 minutes ago, DST enjoyer said:

Why is blessed sisturn 3 a bad design? What part of it that you don't like? How should one fight the boss according to you? Because Abi player tag can really promote the twins playstyle with few managements to fit casual playstyle against bosses.

Because it’s too strong against a few bosses or minibosses, and it isnt clear what it works against without a lot of experimentation, and the damage reduction isnt consistent because each mob is different, and  lune blossoms are generally either extremely easy to get or impossible for players (like, the ones who dont know to raft at all) without much inbetween. It’s a kludge.

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, yinjiu019 said:

No, I just hope that there won't be a situation where I am worse off than myself in order to keep Abigail alive.
I am indeed lazy, but Wendy's tolerance is indeed the lowest, especially when there are few potions.
It is indeed a balance problem that Abi can survive effortlessly. It would be better to make more updates to add new content to challenge the flexible lunar Abi like before. This will be good for both of us~

o(*￣︶￣*)o

Gestalt Abigail would not be fixed by adding new updates with some new bosses.  Having her be a balance problem and survive effortlessly for all the bosses that currently exist, but then actually need effort for this new imaginary boss would still be a terrible design.  There are so many bosses that already exist, so having her be balance problem for 20 bosses or whatever it currently is, but then ok for one or two new bosses would be bad.  If she was only useable post rift your argument would make sense, but she is not.

[yinjiu019]

4 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Gestalt Abigail would not be fixed by adding new updates with some new bosses.  Having her be a balance problem and survive effortlessly for all the bosses that currently exist, but then actually need effort for this new imaginary boss would still be a terrible design.  There are so many bosses that already exist, so having her be balance problem for 20 bosses or whatever it currently is, but then ok for one or two new bosses would be bad.  If she was only useable post rift your argument would make sense, but she is not.

Wait, I'm thinking about how to refute you... (
Indeed, but the previous lunar abi was very comfortable
I really want it (￣﹃￣)

19 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

What she means is to call back the invincible frame/Ai/flexibility of Gestart Abi, but to prevent Gestal solo boss by requiring more player participation.

It's better to make her less flexible while retaining her flexibility (what am I talking about) so that some operations are needed to protect her, but these operations need to be ones that may cost me energy but will not greatly restrict me (for example, I am reluctant to take back Abigail in the middle of a battle, although it is very useful)

=w=

[layangan putus]

3 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Because it’s too strong against a few bosses or minibosses, and it isnt clear what it works against without a lot of experimentation, and the damage reduction isnt consistent because each mob is different, and  lune blossoms are generally either extremely easy to get or impossible for players (like, the ones who dont know to raft at all) without much inbetween. It’s a kludge.

Everything should be strong if you'd need to spend 12 insight against bosses. It's also strong because it does its job but remember that players need to mix it with something else for it to become effective. I agree about the damage reduction since it's very technical stuff but we all don't like bugs in-game. Lune blossoms are just little part in the actual build of "Abi Player Tag & Cure-All" combination, I am worried about the rest of its setup. IMHO, it's very situational for people to choose compared to more possibilities offered by Team Spirit - You just need to spend 3 points for 10 days of survival.

[yinjiu019]

2 minutes ago, DST enjoyer said:

Everything should be strong if you'd need to spend 12 insight against bosses. It's also strong because it does its job but remember that players need to mix it with something else for it to become effective. I agree about the damage reduction since it's very technical stuff but we all don't like bugs in-game. Lune blossoms are just little part in the actual build of "Abi Player Tag & Cure-All" combination, I am worried about the rest of its setup. IMHO, it's very situational for people to choose compared to more possibilities offered by Team Spirit - You just need to spend 3 points for 10 days of survival.

Wait, is Wendy's skill tree directly or indirectly used for combat?
And a large part of it is for the boss?

Just now, yinjiu019 said:

Wait, is Wendy's skill tree directly or indirectly used for combat?
And a large part of it is for the boss?

(Try to think about the unthinking language I just said

[hyoton123]

2 minutes ago, DST enjoyer said:

Everything should be strong if you'd need to spend 12 insight against bosses. 

Disagreed, Wendy’s insight is basically free and i’m taking pipspook, potions and grave skills anyway.

 

-twins - agreed actually but I dont think sisturn 3 is how to approach it. 

16 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

Indeed, but the previous lunar abi was very comfortable
I really want it (￣﹃￣)

I kinda sympathize with this actually. Make me feed the sisturn spark arks or something ridiculous.

 

18 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

It's better to make her less flexible while retaining her flexibility (what am I talking about) so that some operations are needed to protect her, but these operations need to be ones that may cost me energy but will not greatly restrict me (for example, I am reluctant to take back Abigail in the middle of a battle, although it is very useful)

=w=

Assuming you are saying you want more automatic behavior from abigail while still keeping your combat normal: yes! This is exactly what I think wendy is about. I dont want to micromanage commands, I am fine preparing beforehand but i want to just let her do her thing. (i’m pretty blase about letting her die though)

[cyjs]

Come and see my post

[layangan putus]

2 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Disagreed, Wendy’s insight is basically free and i’m taking pipspook, potions and grave skills anyway.

 

-twins - agreed actually but I dont think sisturn 3 is how to approach it. 

Insight is never free, you need to survive 68 days in total equivalent to one year in-game (544 mins or 9 hours) or you can just cheat using console command if you know how. In game industry, you are lucky if gamers willingly play your game more than 3 hours because they can already decide it within 5 to 10 mins for solo PvE game. Luckily, we have Team Spirit so Wendy has more possibilities for combat purpose.

[hyoton123]

Just now, DST enjoyer said:

Insight is never free, you need to survive 68 days in total equivalent to one year in-game (544 mins or 9 hours) or you can just cheat using console command if you know how.

It’s wendy, man. This isnt a tense white knuckle struggle to find enough food to make it to the next day, and it isnt a CC/FW kill. this is the thing she just does.