Only 160 Mourning Glory are needed to engage in a 5-minute battle

[cyjs]

Most boss fights last 5 minutes. Collecting 160 Mourning Glory requires at least 8 mini-games. Time consumption is not proportional to buff duration.
And Shadow Abigail doesn't provide any survivability, which is overall a bad design.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

omg

[WenericMember]

The economy for shadow abb6 def needs improvements. That said, shadow abby is meant to be offensive so no def boosts is fine.

[RussoDaFederal]

33 minutes ago, cyjs said:

Most boss fights last 5 minutes. Collecting 160 Mourning Glory requires at least 8 mini-games. Time consumption is not proportional to buff duration.
And Shadow Abigail doesn't provide any survivability, which is overall a bad design.

...what? Please elaborate

[Peasant]

22 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

...what? Please elaborate

I think he meant that you'll need 160 mourning glorys to revive the butterflies so that the shadow abi murdering buff can last for 5 mins

[cyjs]

17 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

...what? Please elaborate

Resurrecting a butterfly requires 4 Mourning Glory. One butterfly provides an 8-second buff. A group of 10 butterflies provides 80 seconds. 320 seconds is 40 butterflies. Resurrection requires 160 Mourning Glory，

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, cyjs said:

Resurrecting a butterfly requires 4 Mourning Glory. One butterfly provides an 8-second buff. A group of 10 butterflies provides 80 seconds. 320 seconds is 40 butterflies. Resurrection requires 160 Mourning Glory，

Thanks for elaborating, but like I said in another post, even if it cost 2 mourning glories it'd still be more beneficial to carry 2 stacks of butterflies instead of 1 stack of butterflies and 1 stack of mourning glory. The only way to reverse this would be to reduce the cost to 1, but that might be a little too much

[Edible Coal]

6 minutes ago, cyjs said:

Resurrecting a butterfly requires 4 Mourning Glory. One butterfly provides an 8-second buff. A group of 10 butterflies provides 80 seconds. 320 seconds is 40 butterflies. Resurrection requires 160 Mourning Glory，

did you know? you can catch butterfly with a net

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Thanks for elaborating, but like I said in another post, even if it cost 2 mourning glories it'd still be more beneficial to carry 2 stacks of butterflies instead of 1 stack of butterflies and 1 stack of mourning glory. The only way to reverse this would be to reduce the cost to 1, but that might be a little too much

This skill is actually very weak in actual combat. The boss that can be defeated is not needed, and the boss that cannot be defeated is still unbeatable. I'm terribly pessimistic about Wendy's skill tree, does it really work?

[Peasant]

3 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

did you know? you can catch butterfly with a net

Then another question comes. If catching butterflies with a net is more convenient, what's the purpose of reviving butterflies at the cost of 4 mourning glorys each?

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, Edible Coal said:

did you know? you can catch butterfly with a net

Please don’t treat people as fools. I am discussing the design of this skill point.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 minute ago, cyjs said:

This skill is actually very weak in actual combat. The boss that can be defeated is not needed, and the boss that cannot be defeated is still unbeatable. I'm terribly pessimistic about Wendy's skill tree, does it really work?

Dude you need to be more specific in your comments. What boss is unbeatable? What are you talking about? And like Edible Coal said, you could just capture butterflies or bees with a net in a much shorter time if you're worried about having 4 stacks of mourning glory. Have 3 stacks of bees and 1 stack of honey to feed them, they'll last for a very long time

3 minutes ago, YXukun said:

Then another question comes. If catching butterflies with a net is more convenient, what's the purpose of reviving butterflies at the cost of 4 mourning glorys each?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[cyjs]

Just now, RussoDaFederal said:

Dude you need to be more specific in your comments. What boss is unbeatable? What are you talking about? And like Edible Coal said, you could just capture butterflies or bees with a net in a much shorter time if you're worried about having 4 stacks of mourning glory. Have 3 stacks of bees and 1 stack of honey to feed them, they'll last for a very long time

The situation is still the same as before, no change

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, cyjs said:

The situation is still the same as before, no change

The same as when? Same as the first version of the skill tree? Well, even if I dislike this new branch I think this is an improvement, so I disagree. I don't like how they solved the gestalt Abi problem, she was better the way she was before, I can at least agree to that, but complaining that the whole tree should be remade from scratch is a bit much, don't you think?

[cyjs]

Just now, RussoDaFederal said:

The same as when? Same as the first version of the skill tree? Well, even if I dislike this new branch I think this is an improvement, so I disagree. I don't like how they solved the gestalt Abi problem, she was better the way she was before, I can at least agree to that, but complaining that the whole tree should be remade from scratch is a bit much, don't you think?

I can't answer you, I'm so sad

[Peasant]

1 minute ago, RussoDaFederal said:

The same as when? Same as the first version of the skill tree? Well, even if I dislike this new branch I think this is an improvement, so I disagree. I don't like how they solved the gestalt Abi problem, she was better the way she was before, I can at least agree to that, but complaining that the whole tree should be remade from scratch is a bit much, don't you think?

He meant before the skilltree, I presume. As for bosses, no doubt he meant planar bosses who got large range aoe

[Vasz_]

1 hour ago, cyjs said:

Most boss fights last 5 minutes. Collecting 160 Mourning Glory requires at least 8 mini-games. Time consumption is not proportional to buff duration.
And Shadow Abigail doesn't provide any survivability, which is overall a bad design.

What do you propose? Increase the buff duration, reduce the Mourning Glory cost? Let us know what you think in more detail.

[Lee lol]

1 minute ago, Vasz_ said:

您有什么建议？增加增益持续时间，降低哀悼荣耀花费？让我们更详细地知道您的想法。

My suggestion is to reduce the cost of mourning glory. 1 mourning glory 1 butterfly

[cyjs]

Just now, Vasz_ said:

What do you propose? Increase the buff duration, reduce the Mourning Glory cost? Let us know what you think in more detail.

There are so many issues with Wendy's skill tree that I don't want to explain, I've lost the energy to make it better, and I won't play Wendy again without a complete redo.

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, YXukun said:

He meant before the skilltree, I presume. As for bosses, no doubt he meant planar bosses who got large range aoe

That makes sense. I haven't tried to use the new Abi against post rift bosses, I'm used to just despawning her when I'm gonna fight anything 1v1. Yeah, from what people are saying she seems as bad against bosses as she was before the skill tree, which is a huge disappointment. I mean, what's the point of gestalt Abi then? I made a suggestion to remove the rile up command but to keep everything else, which might seem crazy at first, but it solves all the "afk" problems and matches Klei's vision of gestalt Abi being more aloof, while keeping her damage reasonable and her survivability good. Now she's weak and her combat AI is convoluted. Not Klei's best move.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, cyjs said:

Most boss fights last 5 minutes. Collecting 160 Mourning Glory requires at least 8 mini-games. Time consumption is not proportional to buff duration.
And Shadow Abigail doesn't provide any survivability, which is overall a bad design.

Crafting buterflies is a waste, use a bug net.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

12分钟前，Vasz_说：

你有什么建议？增加增益持续时间，降低哀悼荣耀的成本？更详细地告诉我们你的想法。

Change to cause 200 damage to trigger once (200 damage is just an example)

 

[Lee lol]

5 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Crafting buterflies is a waste, use a bug net.

I guess it's easier to kill a butterfly and get butterfly wings than to catch a butterfly. The problem now is that the cost is too high. It would be better to change it to 1 mourning glory 1 butterfly

[djturner]

2 hours ago, cyjs said:

The situation is still the same as before, no change

I think I understand what he's saying. For Shadow Abi specifically, if a boss could already be beaten by Wendy/Abigail before in the usual method of kiting, health pots, etc, then yeah, Shadow Abigail will just dumpster that boss even harder now. If a boss had too much AoE, hit too hard/fast, etc, such that the normal player couldn't juggle Abigail effectively enough to keep her alive in the fight, then Shadow Abigail provides nothing to change that. She'll just die as quickly.

I'd point to two things fwiw, even nerfed and w/o immunity frames, Lunar Abigails protection from one shot death >25% combined with her positioning means a rolling health potion should basically mean she can't die without any other input, so she's a viable alternative for players struggling with that. Secondly, we have greater/smoother baseline control over Abigail now, so I think keeping her alive even in the "traditional" way has gotten easier.

[cyjs]

17 minutes ago, djturner said:

I think I understand what he's saying. For Shadow Abi specifically, if a boss could already be beaten by Wendy/Abigail before in the usual method of kiting, health pots, etc, then yeah, Shadow Abigail will just dumpster that boss even harder now. If a boss had too much AoE, hit too hard/fast, etc, such that the normal player couldn't juggle Abigail effectively enough to keep her alive in the fight, then Shadow Abigail provides nothing to change that. She'll just die as quickly.

I'd point to two things fwiw, even nerfed and w/o immunity frames, Lunar Abigails protection from one shot death >25% combined with her positioning means a rolling health potion should basically mean she can't die without any other input, so she's a viable alternative for players struggling with that. Secondly, we have greater/smoother baseline control over Abigail now, so I think keeping her alive even in the "traditional" way has gotten easier.

After the invincibility frame was deleted, Moon Abigail has lost the power to compete with the Moon Queen boss.