Wortox Alignement/Knabsack

[BalkanCockroach]

I think the alignement skills are alright utility wise but something feels off. What correlation is there between these two items and Wortox? Knabsack is a good option early game but why not make it good for late game aswell? Simply make the alignement skills give a new ability and some planar damage to Knabsack. To restrict early game powercreep it could require late game materials to be infused kinda like Wigfrids lightning spear. Reaper skill fits well with the Knabsack so only the lunar side needs to be reworked.

[ColdHeaven]

knabsack has always intended to be used early/mid game by klei. in late game you can easily re-spend your insights and get your points back

[BalkanCockroach]

46 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

knabsack has always intended to be used early/mid game by klei. in late game you can easily re-spend your insights and get your points back

Why did it used to have planar damage then? They are tinkering with the ideas. Thought i'd give my opinion.

[Dingle]

11 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Why did it used to have planar damage then? They are tinkering with the ideas. Thought i'd give my opinion.

It used to be considered a late game weapon by the devs too. They made it a mid game weapon, instead, when they made it no longer take 5 full soul jars to hit full power.

It didn't make much sense before with the lunar/shadow alignments, anyway. With shadow, you abandon the sack for the Reaper. With lunar, you may as well just use the brightshade sword.

I could agree with adding this back and making shadow affinity work with a planar knabsack, in addition to the reaper. Though then you'd be able to rush it with a nightmare werepig kill.

[Jazzuo]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I think the alignement skills are alright utility wise but something feels off. What correlation is there between these two items and Wortox? Knabsack is a good option early game but why not make it good for late game aswell? Simply make the alignement skills give a new ability and some planar damage to Knabsack. To restrict early game powercreep it could require late game materials to be infused kinda like Wigfrids lightning spear. Reaper skill fits well with the Knabsack so only the lunar side needs to be reworked.

the knabsack at the beginning had planar damage if you had pure horror or/and pure brilliance, but klei remove it

[BalkanCockroach]

17 minutes ago, Jazzuo said:

the knabsack at the beginning had planar damage if you had pure horror or/and pure brilliance, but klei remove it

Ik, I'm saying they should think about adding it back with some additional perks. Not necessarily requiring Pure H/B in your inventory but just infusing Knabsack with it to have late game elements.

[Koomin]

2 hours ago, ColdHeaven said:

knabsack has always intended to be used early/mid game by klei. in late game you can easily re-spend your insights and get your points back

Isn't knabsack a prerequisite for soul jar?  I'd think everyone would want soul jar late game and would not be able to do the reset you mentioned.

[Dingle]

Just now, Koomin said:

Isn't knabsack a prerequisite for soul jar?  I'd think everyone would want soul jar late game and would not be able to do the reset you mentioned.

It is, but even if you never use it as a weapon, you can still make them as gathering tools. That's why I also wanted them to do something else, like have a bug net function. I don't think I'd make them just for the quick aoe grab, personally.

[Hollow soul 3]

55 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It is, but even if you never use it as a weapon, you can still make them as gathering tools. That's why I also wanted them to do something else, like have a bug net function. I don't think I'd make them just for the quick aoe grab, personally.

That's really it, for a required craft it lacks decent utility late game. I'd rather have the skill point after switching to something stronger. Really needs more utility for a required craft.

[Hollow soul 3]

And what's the deal with his affinities being useless until you beat fw and cc? No use at all until then for every save? No other character in the game has that downside. Why not just lose the weapon and armor specifics? 

I get that he has the naughty and nice, but that requires you to go down a couple of specific routes. Not really worth the trade for bad affinity skills if you're planning on staying neutral.

[IAmAFurrz]

4 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Knabsack is a good option early game but why not make it good for late game aswell?

it is for picking up items

4 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

 Simply make the alignement skills give a new ability and some planar damage to Knabsack

knabsack getting planar would be cool but the alignment skills are a lot cooler. utilizes soul echos should you choose the affinities, while if you just add planar to knabsack then.... you just have another shadow reaper but only for wortox :\, would you WANT to just have the same gameplan from early to late game? just doesnt make any sense, this suggestion

4 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

To restrict early game powercreep it could require late game materials to be infused kinda like Wigfrids lightning spear.

so you want him to have spear but worse?

4 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Reaper skill fits well with the Knabsack so only the lunar side needs to be reworked.

genuinely confused with this sentence

reaper skill is for combat, it has NOTHING to do with knabsack in that sense. if you mean as a TOOL, yes, but the skill has nothing to do with it as a tool. lunar side, it gives you 2 invincible hits, it has nothing to do with knabsack???

10 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

No use at all until then for every save?

its like saying 'alchemy engine is useless until then for every save'  thats progression, you get the option to swap skills when you use moonrock idols

12 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

No other character in the game has that downside. Why not just lose the weapon and armor specifics? 

because they want to integrate soul echo in unique ways for late game. he already has plenty of early game skills (and most also apply for late game), you dont need more. its like asking for a bowl of candy after eating a whole cake already

3 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Why did it used to have planar damage then?

i can also ask 'why does it not have it now?' but that wouldnt make a compelling point

1 hour ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

That's really it, for a required craft it lacks decent utility late game. I'd rather have the skill point after switching to something stronger. Really needs more utility for a required craft.

its just ONE filler skill for late game, its not that hard to overlook

[Hollow soul 3]

4 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

 

its like saying 'alchemy engine is useless until then for every save'  thats progression, you get the option to swap skills when you use moonrock idols

because they want to integrate soul echo in unique ways for late game. he already has plenty of early game skills (and most also apply for late game), you dont need more. its like asking for a bowl of candy after eating a whole cake already

Not really, every other survivors affinity skills applies to early and late game as long as they beat the boss on one save. Wortox has his no use until he beats the bosses because it's locked behind items only obtainable post rift. 

[IAmAFurrz]

2 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Not really, every other survivors affinity skills applies to early and late game as long as they beat the boss on one save. Wortox has his no use until he beats the bosses because it's locked behind items only obtainable post rift. 

ok cool, he has all the other skills to aid him in early game, plenty id say. ive played him and i have 0 complaints about those skills cuz... theyre for late game. you CHOOSE later

and mind you, ive played for over 400 days with him, with rift open by day 100. he is AMAZING with the other skills and INSANE with affinity. just swap when you have stuff for the affinities, its not that hard to understand

also, wormwood's affinity is post rift only, woodie's lunar only affects on fullmoons and moonstorms, wigfrids are post rift only, as well as wilson's, so the 'every other survivor affinity skills apply early game' is comPLETELY wrong

walters and wendy's as well, theyre ALSO post rift, so that statement is even MORE wrong

[Hollow soul 3]

They're all designed with late game in mind. He's the only one that has 0 use before getting to late game. It's also severely nerfed on controller.

[BalkanCockroach]

14 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

it is for picking up items

I'm talking about the weapon aspect.

 

15 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

knabsack getting planar would be cool but the alignment skills are a lot cooler. utilizes soul echos should you choose the affinities, while if you just add planar to knabsack then.... you just have another shadow reaper but only for wortox :\, would you WANT to just have the same gameplan from early to late game? just doesnt make any sense, this suggestion

Okay, i said give the soul echo damage bonus from reaper to knabsack. Didn't say make the knabsack a reaper copy without anything special.

For the rest of your reply i'm just as confused as you are. I don't think you read my post well.

[Dingle]

37 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

ok cool, he has all the other skills to aid him in early game, plenty id say. ive played him and i have 0 complaints about those skills cuz... theyre for late game. you CHOOSE later

and mind you, ive played for over 400 days with him, with rift open by day 100. he is AMAZING with the other skills and INSANE with affinity. just swap when you have stuff for the affinities, its not that hard to understand

also, wormwood's affinity is post rift only, woodie's lunar only affects on fullmoons and moonstorms, wigfrids are post rift only, as well as wilson's, so the 'every other survivor affinity skills apply early game' is comPLETELY wrong

walters and wendy's as well, theyre ALSO post rift, so that statement is even MORE wrong

Wendy is pre rift for her ghost mutations, both of them. Woodie has shadow too, and moonstorms are pre rift. Wormwood has an alternate pre rift option off top of head. Wigfrid is technically pre rift, but not long before it to be fair.

SUMMARY: Some survivors have pre rift alignment options, some don't.

[Hollow soul 3]

52 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

Also, wormwood's affinity is post rift only, woodie's lunar only affects on fullmoons and moonstorms, wigfrids are post rift only, as well as wilson's, so the 'every other survivor affinity skills apply early game' is comPLETELY wrong

walters and wendy's as well, theyre ALSO post rift, so that statement is even MORE wrong

I could have sworn that wormwood's summons could be summoned pre rift. Haven't played as one, only with one so I might be wrong.

Woodie lunar is pretty bad. His shadow perk allows you to ignore shadow monsters, mixed with his other transformation perks, he can also ignore hunger, and gain 90% of damage, and gain a health regeneration allowing him to stay transformed almost indefinitely.

Wilson at least gets a buff against shadow monsters early, wigfred gives a buff to everyone against shadow or lunar mobs

I haven't looked at Walter, but Abigail's transform is based on full moon, not rift. Wickerbottom can get her transformed day one or two.

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

Wendy is pre rift for her ghost mutations, both of them. Woodie has shadow too, and moonstorms are pre rift. Wormwood has an alternate pre rift option off top of head. Wigfrid is technically pre rift, but not long before it to be fair.

SUMMARY: Some survivors have pre rift alignment options, some don't.

yea, but the OG poster made it out to be 'EVERYONE has to have early game alignment skill' as if its a rule, which is completely wrong

1 hour ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Woodie lunar is pretty bad. His shadow perk allows you to ignore shadow monsters, mixed with his other transformation perks, he can also ignore hunger, and gain 90% of damage, and gain a health regeneration allowing him to stay transformed almost indefinitely.

im not debating whether they're good or not, just that not everyone has to have early game alignment skill.

[Dingle]

15 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

yea, but the OG poster made it out to be 'EVERYONE has to have early game alignment skill' as if its a rule, which is completely wrong

im not debating whether they're good or not, just that not everyone has to have early game alignment skill.

Yeah, OP wasn't correct either.

Trying to think of what survivors dont have some early game alignment option. Seems like most at least have an option.

Example, Winona has a way to use her "shadow" catapult super early, its her "lunar" catapult that is locked. Wigfrid still gets a shadow or lunar damage bonus, before her moonstorm spear upgrade (I am ignoring the existence of the lunar and shadow songs, as everyone else does.)

[Hollow soul 3]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Yeah, OP wasn't correct either.

Trying to think of what survivors dont have some early game alignment option. Seems like most at least have an option.

Example, Winona has a way to use her "shadow" catapult super early, its her "lunar" catapult that is locked. Wigfrid still gets a shadow or lunar damage bonus, before her moonstorm spear upgrade (I am ignoring the existence of the lunar and shadow songs, as everyone else does.)

That's really it. Wortox looks like the only exemption. I don't think it has to be something brokenly good early on, but a little versatile would be nice.Wortox's feels really limited being tied not just to post rift, but specific items. It's bad that it's bad on controller as well