ancient fuelweaver rework is too hard

[Bumber64]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Wut? You literally have inventory slots attached to whatever key you want for fast switching...maybe is a portion of the player base who refuse to learn how to play videogames properly 

Input order matters. Another item can end up in the slot, unlike Zelda, etc.

[SilverSpoon]

Just now, arubaro said:

Wut? You literally have inventory slots attached to whatever key you want for fast switching...maybe is a portion of the player base who refuse to learn how to play videogames properly 

Have you tried it on the console too? Coupled with the terrible controls in Lazy Explorer, I've heard that fighting AFW on console is a nightmare.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I do think they should add more options for mobility like the elder spear so we have more variety and routes to take when rushing stuff 

ig but not literally just a flint pickaxe

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You still have to fumble to your lazy explorer in a game not designed for in-fight inventory management

you can just put it into last slot if you're breaking many armors or weapons during the fight, since in that scenario things go closest to the 1st slot...

3 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Dodging it would still save you the trouble of mining it

it'll be pointless unless you'll need to spend like 5 seconds on mining it

6 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

It's just bad!

why?

6 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I don't think you were even meant to dodge bone cage. It was designed for multiplayer

how does that matter now? it didn't get patched and's fun to do and the fight's more fun when playing solo in comparison with multiplayer

Just now, SilverSpoon said:

Have you tried it on the console too? Coupled with the terrible controls in Lazy Explorer, I've heard that fighting AFW on console is a nightmare

why are you mentioning that if you don't even know? they also changed how lazy explorer works there recently for making it more useful during FW fight, so that shouldn't be an issue now

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Input order matters. Another item can end up in the slot, unlike Zelda, etc.

maybe consider that as a difficulty instead of a poor system?

[SilverSpoon]

Who say that the current AFW is "No problem", "Just need skill" and "Fun" should think about why there are so many threads that complaints and requesting reworking of AFW compared to CC. Just like previous Crab King.

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Input order matters. Another item can end up in the slot, unlike Zelda, etc.

Ofc, that is how it works. You hand slot goes for the item you equip if you organized it properly. Is simply pressing 1 or 2...

[Bumber64]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

why?

Nothing else in the game does this to you, let alone a boss that heals. You can be locked in place with an annoying frequency.

Sleep and freeze require multiple hits, can be more easily avoided, and aren't used by enemies that can quickly recover.

CK is the closest match, and the ice wall is trivially breakable.

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Have you tried it on the console too? Coupled with the terrible controls in Lazy Explorer, I've heard that fighting AFW on console is a nightmare.

That is another discussion, dont try to use that as an excuse. Klei, as i said, should improve console experience. That doesnt mean that they should ruin fw

Is very twisted to only be worried about console players when that benefits your point of view

3 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Who say that the current AFW is "No problem", "Just need skill" and "Fun" should think about why there are so many threads that complaints and requesting reworking of AFW compared to CC. Just like previous Crab King.

Cc is as easy as letting you go back to base without needing to repeat the fight from 0

Maybe is because this game attracts people who dont expect to be good at videogames...

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Nothing else in the game does this to you, let alone a boss that heals

what's bad about a boss doing something unique?

[Bumber64]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Ofc, that is how it works. You hand slot goes for the item you equip if you organized it properly. Is simply pressing 1 or 2...

No, the bow button any Zelda game doesn't ever swap around without it being reassigned from the pause menu.

[grm9]

13 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Who say that the current AFW is "No problem", "Just need skill" and "Fun" should think about why there are so many threads that complaints and requesting reworking of AFW compared to CC. Just like previous Crab King

because some people complain about any thing that's remotely hard to do and CC's extremely easy to do, so they don't complain about it

[arubaro]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why's a boss having an unique ability that you need to deal with in an unique way bad?

I wont be against more enemies with interesting mechanics and having more uses for movility items/perks like the explorer 

[Bumber64]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why's a boss having an unique ability that you need to deal with in an unique way bad?

The method is unfun, and you aren't even guaranteed to have access to it at a given point due to RNG.

It'd at least be more interesting if you could choose between quickly telepoofing or slowly mining, but you'd still have to swap equipment either way. Making it less frequent would at least be more bearable.

He already has the sanity-related mechanics, healing, and shields. That's plenty.

[grm9]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

The method is unfun, and you aren't even guaranteed to have access to it at a given point due to RNG.

It'd at least be more interesting if you could choose between quickly telepoofing or slowly mining, but you'd still have to swap equipment either way. Making it less frequent would at least be more bearable

fun's subjective, imo it's fun, you always can dodge in case you didn't get lazy explorer, people'd always mine unless they'd get lazy explorer from AG and have nothing else to spend it on or mining'd require spending like 5 or more seconds on it so it'd hardly be a choice

[dst_lover]

22 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Have you tried it on the console too? Coupled with the terrible controls in Lazy Explorer, I've heard that fighting AFW on console is a nightmare.

I am a console player and yes it’s hard but very fun and not impossible 

[SilverSpoon]

11 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Cc is as easy as letting you go back to base without needing to repeat the fight from 0

Maybe is because this game attracts people who dont expect to be good at videogames...

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because some people don't like any thing that's remotely hard to do, they don't complain about CC because it's extremely easy

To demonstrate your skills, you must look down on others, then you are the definition of a noisy minority.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

To demonstrate your skills, you must look down on others, then you are the definition of a noisy minority

???

no, i'm not trying to say that i'm better than someone, i'm only saying why they complain since you asked, you can kill CC with just holding F not depending on character, damage multiplier, minions, gun powder etc. unlike FW and dealing with FW with out just killing him before he does any thing requires more thought in comparison with just going away or to the side for countering all CC attacks and idk how's looking down on someone related to being a minority

[Bumber64]

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

fun's subjective, imo it's fun, you always can dodge in case you didn't get lazy explorer, people'd always mine unless they'd get lazy explorer from AG and have nothing else to spend it on or mining'd require spending like 5 or more seconds on it so it'd hardly be a choice

And IMO it isn't, and the mechanic should just be scrapped. Allowing pickaxe and increasing cooldown doesn't redeem it, but simply makes it less tedious than it already is.

What is objective is that throwing more mechanics and requirements on a boss doesn't automatically make things more interesting.

The best that could be done is run a poll on whether players enjoy that specific mechanic, but I don't think enough have even found and activated atrium for a good sample. (Or possibly even AG and pseudoscience, considering people voidwalked to avoid the simple hassle of exploring the caves.)

[SilverSpoon]

59 minutes ago, arubaro said:

And dont think im saying this like "im too good, you are all noobs"

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i'm not trying to say that i'm better than them or whatever, i'm only saying why they complain since you asked

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

All of what you want to say is that "im too good, you are all noobs","i'm better than someone". If you weren't, why are you going around looking down on everyone who complains about AFW? If you just want AFW to stay the way it is, you should express your opinion  without insulting people and as an adult, like dst_lover doing.

Furthermore, if you didn't think so, you wouldn't judge the complaints about AFW as "complain about any thing that's remotely hard to do." At least I even said It's OK that "Restore the minimum items needed to fight AFW to the Atrium treasure chest."

[grm9]

26 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

(Or possibly even AG and pseudoscience, considering people voidwalked to avoid the simple hassle of exploring the caves.)

no, people voidwalked for skipping tentacle pillar RNG

26 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

What is objective is that throwing more mechanics and requirements on a boss doesn't automatically make things more interesting

it still makes FW more interesting, just not automatically, but because they fit in with each other

26 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

And IMO it isn't, and the mechanic should just be scrapped. Allowing pickaxe and increasing cooldown doesn't redeem it, but simply makes it less tedious than it already is

imo it isn't tedious at all

26 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

The best that could be done is run a poll on whether players enjoy that specific mechanic, but I don't think enough have even found and activated atrium for a good sample

so there're just too few people that did FW at all for them to matter and klei were doing all shadow rifts content for nothing??? does this not sound absurd to you?

15 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

All of what you (and a certain other person) want to say is that "i'm better than someone". If you weren't, why are you going around looking down on everyone who complains about AFW? If you just want AFW to stay the way it is, you should express your opinion  without insulting people and as an adult, like dst_lover doing

???

i'm not looking down on anyone, i already expressed the opinion, i didn't insult anyone and what do you even expect me to say to people whose complaints boil down to "it's too hard" or "it's too expensive if you're bad at the fight and i'm not willing to get better at it"

15 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Furthermore, if you didn't think so, you wouldn't judge the complaints about AFW as "complain about any thing that's remotely hard to do."

saying this doesn't mean that i'm looking down on someone

15 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

At least I even said It's OK that "Restore the minimum items needed to fight AFW to the Atrium treasure chest."

how's this related to the rest of your message or my message that you responded to

[Bumber64]

46 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, people voidwalked for skipping tentacle pillar RNG

it still makes FW more interesting, just not automatically, but because they fit in with each other

imo it isn't tedious at all

so there're just too few people that did FW at all for them to matter and klei were doing all shadow rifts content for nothing??? does this not sound absurd to you?

If everybody was exploring to the extent of finding every tentapillar, RNG wouldn't be a factor. I know for a fact people complain about finding CK, moon quay, etc., despite there being very few places to actually even look for those.

Fit in to make it more frustrating, perhaps. AFW is nomming woven shadows, but you can only sit and watch. Ha ha, so funny! He's already got a mind control ability that works on sanity, so it's redundant anyway.

About every 15 seconds of a 7+ minute fight (depending on damage output, boss healing). Approaching the very definition of tedium.

You can start with rifts on, but that is an entirely possible development scenario. Add on that engagement on forum polls is usually like 50 people max. Doesn't matter that thousands of players have done it (let alone solo) if you don't hear from them.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

If everybody was exploring to the extent of finding every tentapillar, RNG wouldn't be a factor

exactly, there's no other reason for going into any cave biome except muddy, cave spider, red mush tree forest, blue mushroom, grotto, archive and ruins except getting to 1 of the mentioned things or fighting toad, so people don't do that, since walking through biomes with no thing that you'd ever want to interact with isn't fun

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Fit in to make it more frustrating, perhaps. AFW is nomming woven shadows, but you can only sit and watch. Ha ha, so funny!

it fits in because it works as a punishment, you'd be able to just shrug off damage even if it would've been like 300 per attack, but him getting healed forces you to actually deal with that

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

About every 15 seconds of a 7+ minute fight (depending on damage output). Approaching the very definition of tedium

it's fun to deal with and there're other things happening during that time so no, it's like saying that hunger is extremely tedious because it ticks down on every frame during the entire 3 hours long playthrough

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You can start with rifts on, but that is an entirely possible development scenario. Add on that engagement on forum polls is usually like 50 people max. Doesn't matter that thousands of players have done it if you don't hear from them

that's just an issue with forums being known as a very shіtty place outside of forums because of debates constantly happening and people often indirectly insulting each other or arguing about same thing for months or years

[Bumber64]

16 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it fits in because it works as a punishment, you'd be able to just shrug off damage even if it would've been like 300 per attack, but him getting healed forces you to actually deal with that

it's fun to deal with and there're other things happening during that time so no, it's like saying that hunger is extremely tedious because it ticks down on every frame during the entire 3 hours long playthrough

Punishment for not dodging an attack that wasn't designed to be dodgeable, not bringing a lazy explorer, or not bringing another player? You can always just shrug off damage until you run out of the means to do so, at which point you can't anymore. That's not a particularly meaningful statement. Like, apply it to any non-CC boss that fully heals if you run out of supplies and die.

Now imagine eating every 15 seconds during every boss fight. That analogy kind of just spectacularly implodes, doesn't it?

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

wasn't designed to be dodgeable

how does that matter now?

6 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You can always just shrug off damage until you run out of the means to do so

you rarely ever do if you got any marble set piece in the world, some people still just tank dfly with a wall during the entire fight

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Like, apply it to any non-CC boss that fully heals if you run out of supplies and die

dying's much harder in comparison with messing up during FW fight for him to get healed for X hp

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Now imagine eating every 15 seconds during every boss fight. That analogy kind of just spectacularly implodes, doesn't it?

it doesn't, some people already do because of taking with a low max hp character or the boss having an insanity aura and it isn't that bad

[Bumber64]

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how does that matter now?

you rarely ever do if you got any marble set piece in the world, some people still just tank dfly with a wall during the entire fight

dying's much harder in comparison with messing up during FW fight for him to get healed for X hp

it doesn't, some people already do because of taking with a low max hp character or the boss having an insanity aura and it isn't that bad

Any you don't see the issue with being penalized for not dodging it? Seriously?

Good for them, I guess. Costs resources all the same. (Though I question how well it handles enraged fire AoE if you don't do something about that. This killed me during shadow maul tests.)

And why do you feel they should be punished with the boss healing for that? I don't think it can be understated how much health he has to begin with, or that he can start shielding it later.

Facetanking is a strategy that trades kiting for eating. (Also, people do this with low max hp characters? Are you making that up?) Insanity definitely isn't every 15 seconds.

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Any you don't see the issue with being penalized for not dodging it? Seriously?

i don't because dodging it's possible, how it was designed's irrelevant, how it ended up being's all that matters now

15 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Good for them, I guess. Costs resources all the same

practically free resources, much less free than lazy explorer, so a lot of people would've likely ended up using those instead of lazy explorer or learning how to dodge it if there would've been that choice

15 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

And why do you feel they should be punished with the boss healing for that? I don't think it can be understated how much health he has to begin with, or that he can start shielding it later

because that's the only way to prevent the player from completing the fight because of failing at it except just killing them and making the boss get despawned

15 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Facetanking is a strategy that trades kiting for eating

then why isn't bosses attacking a bad thing btw? practically all bosses attack more often than every 15 seconds, why isn't them attacking bad? frequency of something isn't what makes it tedious or annoying

it's also not like FW's attacking you and forcing you to kite at the same frame that you get trapped on, you can run away from him on reaction for getting enough time for looking through your entire inventory before he gets too close to you for you to use lazy explorer with out getting hit

15 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Insanity definitely isn't every 15 seconds

depends on what you're using for dealing with it and how close you are to the boss, most bosses' insanity aura is either 0 or -400 per minute so usually at least like -50 per minute if not hugging them and cooked cactus or green shroom gives 15 sanity so insanity can require eating every 15 seconds

15 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

(Also, people do this with low max hp characters? Are you making that up?)

people often tank FW when playing as maxwell for maximising dps