Returning player after a few years here. Have some of the game mechanics become easier?

[crazz2323]

I haven't played ONI for a few years now. The last time I played was with all settings on max difficulty, using the Diseases Restored mod since diseases in the vanilla game are hardly even a concern, and on the Oasisse map. It was hard. Stress was quite an issue and getting food poisoning was easy to do if you weren't careful and cleanliness was a major concern. I lost many a colony to "fun" from stress spirals not to mention the other life-ending factors like oxygen, food, and heat. Death of one duplicant seemed to affect the other duplicants exasperating the downward spiral. It was a fun challenge. Things like good hygiene, decor, managing schedules, and non-cluttered rooms mattered.

This past week, I fired up a new Classic asteroid w/ Spaced Out, + the Frosty Planet Pack all settings on the hardest (still using the Diseases Restored mod). It's been so long, I had to re-learn the game. After my 1st failed game, it started to become apparent to me that things like stress did not seem to matter anywhere as much as it used to. In my second game, I was still learning and had a terrible base going, oxygen barely breathable, ore and dirt all over the floors in rooms, almost no decor, food issues, etc etc. and it seemed like the old stress spirals that would normally and so easily occur no longer would happen. My dupes almost seemed to recover on their own without me doing much at all. Even after all but one dup died from starvation with bodies of his friends all over my base, that one guy just kept on going almost as if nothing was wrong. Sure there were times when total base stress would reach almost 100% which used to mean game over but without me doing anything, it would just drop off on its own. It also seemed like it was a lot harder for the Dupes to get to that point.

Now, I never was a skilled player, so it's not that I mastered this game, especially after years of inactivity. I enjoy a hard challenge and losing is "fun" for me but it seems now like I couldn't lose my base even if I tried unless I just let everyone starve. Stress now seems like merely a concern rather than a base killer like it used to be. I already found the game too easy with the whole disease system being nothing more than a nuisance which is why I couldn't play it without the Diseases Restored mod but something seems off. Have they tweaked the mechanics to make the game overall easier? What can I do to make it harder mechanics-wise? Any mods that ramp up the challenge? Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this? 

[Mastada]

I'm pretty sure, in general, things have gotten easier over time, especially with each DLC. For example, Spaced Out! made spaceships for most of us much easier to use. Other new things made the old things a little easier to bear. I don't recall them specifically nerfing any of the things you mentioned, particularly stress, but I believe the new stuff has just made it easier.

I can't speak too much to stress, as I am pretty pro-active and keep ahead of stressors before it becomes a problem. Once I learned what it is that dupes hate, I quit doing it, or minimized as much as possible. Like you, I enjoy the challenge of ONI. Times were better when diseases mattered, and death was a real result of not keeping tabs on what your dupes were doing. I recall accidentally setting off MASSIVE clouds of slime lung on multiple occasions, and the resulting panic as I tried to scramble to fix the problem. I wasn't always able to. That risk made the game much more fun. As you said, now diseases are a minor annoyance at best. So yeah, modding helps at times for stuff like that.

It's hard to tell, for me, if the death spirals are more game development related, or me just learning how to avoid them. I'm guessing it's a decent combination of both. I haven't had a death spiral in a very long time, which isn't necessarily a good thing. That risk always elevated the tension and made the game better. My first few dozens of hours of playing ONI were always a tight balancing act - food, oxygen, temp, systems, etc - those are the best times when I look back. So yeah, I think there's some truth to what you are saying.

[asurendra]

Last patch (alongside DLC2)  made stress a bit worse (due to low and high temp stresses). Before that it was not changed for years. Actually, on normal difficulty stress was never an issue. To feel real "stress spiral" you have to set max difficulty...

[crazz2323]

Thanks, Asurendra. Yeah, I always play on max difficulty, with harder asteroids even back when I first played. You might be right Mastada, it might be a combo of knowing how to handle dupes better. For anyone interested, I did find a few mods to ramp up the difficulty a bit: More Emotions which adds a few additional stressors like "Duplicants are horrified when they see a corpse.+25% Stress for 0.25 cycles" which just makes sense. The mod also adds some stress relievers but it's all configurable in the mod options so I turned off anything that would make stress easier. Another mod that works in tandem with the Diseases Restored mod is [Vanilla + DLC] Diseases Expanded which adds new germs and diseases to enrich the game and make it a little more challenging. It also adds some new traits and buildings like the Vaccine Apothecary. Finally, I added Darkness Not Excluded (fixed), which adds a customizable amount of darkness to unlit areas that also will affect moods. We will see if these help up the difficulty a bit. All I know is if Diseases Restored ever stops being updated, I won't enjoy the early game anymore. I mean come on ONI, why have a medical skill line and buildings if you never even need them in vanilla? Just make diseases more dangerous as a togglable option for those who want it so we don't need to require mods to do it. 

[Charletrom]

I think some aspects of the challenge of the game have shifted. We have new tools to combat certain problems, like oxygen masks and warming stations, but new challenges as well, like stinging eyes and more aggressive hot/cold debuffs.

You could try a no massage tables run. Now THAT would be a challenge. Or you could use the mods “customize buildings” to make massage tables consume more energy.

I’d also recommend “customize recipes” to make the game harder. I use it to make atmosuits require glass and plastic. It pushes them further into the midgame which def creates a challenge.

[crazz2323]

On 10/23/2024 at 9:03 AM, Charletrom said:

I think some aspects of the challenge of the game have shifted. We have new tools to combat certain problems, like oxygen masks and warming stations, but new challenges as well, like stinging eyes and more aggressive hot/cold debuffs.

You could try a no massage tables run. Now THAT would be a challenge. Or you could use the mods “customize buildings” to make massage tables consume more energy.

I’d also recommend “customize recipes” to make the game harder. I use it to make atmosuits require glass and plastic. It pushes them further into the midgame which def creates a challenge.

Thanks, I will check out those mods.

[Fistleaf]

Stress can be managed by just learning very few skills. No need for massage table. Standard barracks, latrine and great hall, throw in some decor will be enough.