wanda skill tree ideas:

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

1. naming backtrek watches, they can be labeled with items corresponding to where they lead to in chests, but it would be much better if they could also be labled, preferably with the feather pencil, or appearing as an option when clicking on them

2. planner damage added to the clock in anyway

3. special planner armors/ defences, I get that she is  the glass canon and all, but being one shot by nearly all planner entities when old seems a bit too much (in a lot of situations, you get 2 shot even with double normal plannar armor
4.backtek watches should require 2 tusks for absolutely no reason at all  (definitely not for duping tusks, noooooo, no one would do that, right guys, RIGHT?)
5. some interaction with shadow and magic related equipment, maybe with some staves or things idk

ps. if any disagreements happen carry them one somewhere else, I don't want this post to get locked like some other one, this is purely for Wanda ideas, positive feedback, and helpful insight, so please don't ruin this)

[Cruvimaster]

I think it would be interesting for the character's progress (not becoming a mere Wolfgang) to have a new version of Alaming Clock (upgrade) required: Alamin Clock + Shadow Thibrible + Enlightened Shard.

This new version would give a total of 162.8 damage (142.8 + 20 planar) when Wanda had elderly. And this is not a random number, but considering that Wolfgang currently has 306 dps with new equipment [without even having to defeat the CC or AF, just leaving the event activated in the world].

Maxwell has his maximum power defeating AF. Wigfrid has to defeat the CC. Already Wanda would have to defeat these two giants to have the most power.

Wanda also needs to have area damage (for example, Wolfgang with throwing dumbbells) or in multiple enemies (for example, Wigfrid with its last spear).

Wanda also needs +20 planar defense. This could be done with a specific ability in the character's skill tree or an upgrade in Night Armor.

It was only thought about the combat aspect.

About Wanda's teleportation, it was something innovative at the time. Today is getting more and more obsolete.

After Wanda's arrival, Klei did a Rework on Wortox Teleport and he teleported anywhere on the map at the cost of killing some bees.

Frostjaw provides up to 10 teleports in a single combat, and every 20 days it can multiply this. It is limited to the ocean, but it is the only really useful area of interest. On the continent we have beefalo that is very fast.

Maybe even Winona will now be able to teleport and at a low cost (I've said the Winona item description suggests another feature, but we'll only be sure in beta).

I hope Wortox has the skill tree first than Wanda to see how good it will be.

I understand that the best teleportation of the game has to be from Wortox and that the best for combat in general is Wofgang.

I think Wanda has to approach both (combat and teleportation).

Regarding Second Chance Watch, Klei should return to the original idea: it would not be destroyed by Wanda's resurrection, but would have a 4-minute delay for new use. It's not a cheap watch. It's easier to defeat Klaus every 20 days (1 or 2 Life Giving Amulet) than having to create new watches for this purpose.

Regarding Rift Watch, the purple gem should be exchanged for pure horror. It makes a lot of sense for Wanda's dark side, by the way. Wanda would be much more useful for those who play in groups.

[grm9]

45 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda also needs +20 planar defense

isn't she supposed to be a glass cannon character? maybe increase damage taken and dealt when old instead? you shouldn't be able to tank more than 1 hit from most bosses when old if she's supposed to be a glass cannon, currently you can tank 7 hits from FW and heal after that

45 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda also needs to have area damage (for example, Wolfgang with throwing dumbbells) or in multiple enemies (for example, Wigfrid with its last spear)

it'd only allow you to kill birds and make fighting FW even easier if it would've been like their 

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

isn't she supposed to be a glass cannon character? maybe increase damage taken and dealt when old instead? you shouldn't be able to tank more than 1 hit from most bosses when old if she's supposed to be a glass cannon, currently you can tank 7 hits from FW and heal after that

This concept of glass cannon is a nonsense thing talked about here on the forum repeatedly.

Wanda's concept predates the planar system and she has up to 95% protection for the game's biggest attack. In fact, ANY character has access to the two armors that provide 95% protection. One of them, in fact, won't even have a penalty for using one of them (Wolfgang + Marble Suit + 200 full life + highest DPS in the game). Others can get around the sanity penalty by eating food and still have full health, but they have so much health that it simply isn't worth it. Furthermore, all characters benefited from new better armor with 85% or 90% protection (but which costs Wanda a lot to use when she is only 17 life points / 73 years old).

Rare are the giants that deal more than 100 damage. So Wanda takes about 5 potential damage.

It was built with exactly that in mind!!!! But the thinking people on the forum can't see that.

Furthermore, what cannon is this that has lower DPS than Wolfgang? If that's what she's supposed to be, then let her deal 500 damage per attack.

Finally, this topic was thinking about "skill tree ideas". These are my ideas.

All the skill trees that were brought to Klei only improve characters. But when it comes to Wanda, there is a lot of comment that she should have more downsides (she would be the only harmed character in a character tree). It has also been proven that there are many people who would simply like to remove the character from the game.

The developers planned Wanda for a Constant without a planar system. For her to be an alternative to Wolfgang (who improved a lot after Wanda with a rework + a skill tree) and to have a teleportation system that was the best at the time (after they optimized Wortox).

I'm sure the developers are aware of this reality and will do work to rebalance what was lost. In fact, they did that to Wolfgang and Wigfrid. It's the right direction.

Remembering that Wanda's reality, TO USE HER FULL ATTACK POTENTIAL, is that during a fight she needs to let her age reach 73 years old (17 life points) to use the healing clock.

Wolfgang, on the other hand, to use his full potential, needs to lift a dumbbell and each hit he gives a monster only maintains or increases his strength. And he has 200 life points to be supreme.

And if the argument is that Wanda doesn't need to get old to fight, then she's definitely not a cannon.

[grm9]

39 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

This concept of glass cannon is a nonsense thing talked about here on the forum repeatedly.

Wanda's concept predates the planar system and she has up to 95% protection for the game's biggest attack. In fact, ANY character has access to the two armors that provide 95% protection. One of them, in fact, won't even have a penalty for using one of them (Wolfgang + Marble Suit + 200 full life + highest DPS in the game). Others can get around the sanity penalty by eating food and still have full health, but they have so much health that it simply isn't worth it. Furthermore, all characters benefited from new better armor with 85% or 90% protection (but which costs Wanda a lot to use when she is only 17 life points / 73 years old).

Rare are the giants that deal more than 100 damage. So Wanda takes about 5 potential damage.

It was built with exactly that in mind!!!! But the thinking people on the forum can't see that

so what's your point? they clearly intended for her to be a glass cannon since they made her damage scale with hp and tried to make spamming healing harder, they just seemingly set old hp threshold with people fighting armorless in mind

39 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Furthermore, what cannon is this that has lower DPS than Wolfgang? If that's what she's supposed to be, then let her deal 500 damage per attack

nah, if she'd deal too much damage it'd be easier to play as her in comparison to wolfgang even if she would've died in 1 hit when old

39 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Remembering that Wanda's reality, TO USE HER FULL ATTACK POTENTIAL, is that during a fight she needs to let her age reach 73 years old (17 life points) to use the healing clock

17 hp means that you can get hit by FW thrice before dying, that's around 12 seconds to heal

39 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

But when it comes to Wanda, there is a lot of comment that she should have more downsides

tradeoffs, deal and take more damage, go through all anims at x1.5 speed but slow down to x0.5 for 5 seconds after getting hit etc.

[Cruvimaster]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so what's your point?

When the time comes for developers to work on Wanda's skill tree, they will adopt their own concepts. I highly doubt that any type of suggestion from everyone here on the forum represents 1% to 5% of their acceptance. There are many opinions and requests about many things here on the forum and the developers simply ignore them. So I just bring suggestions but without any expectation of them becoming reality.

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

7 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I think it would be interesting for the character's progress (not becoming a mere Wolfgang) to have a new version of Alaming Clock (upgrade) required: Alamin Clock + Shadow Thibrible + Enlightened Shard.

This new version would give a total of 162.8 damage (142.8 + 20 planar) when Wanda had elderly. And this is not a random number, but considering that Wolfgang currently has 306 dps with new equipment [without even having to defeat the CC or AF, just leaving the event activated in the world].

Maxwell has his maximum power defeating AF. Wigfrid has to defeat the CC. Already Wanda would have to defeat these two giants to have the most power.

Wanda also needs to have area damage (for example, Wolfgang with throwing dumbbells) or in multiple enemies (for example, Wigfrid with its last spear).

Wanda also needs +20 planar defense. This could be done with a specific ability in the character's skill tree or an upgrade in Night Armor.

It was only thought about the combat aspect.

About Wanda's teleportation, it was something innovative at the time. Today is getting more and more obsolete.

After Wanda's arrival, Klei did a Rework on Wortox Teleport and he teleported anywhere on the map at the cost of killing some bees.

Frostjaw provides up to 10 teleports in a single combat, and every 20 days it can multiply this. It is limited to the ocean, but it is the only really useful area of interest. On the continent we have beefalo that is very fast.

Maybe even Winona will now be able to teleport and at a low cost (I've said the Winona item description suggests another feature, but we'll only be sure in beta).

I hope Wortox has the skill tree first than Wanda to see how good it will be.

I understand that the best teleportation of the game has to be from Wortox and that the best for combat in general is Wofgang.

I think Wanda has to approach both (combat and teleportation).

Regarding Second Chance Watch, Klei should return to the original idea: it would not be destroyed by Wanda's resurrection, but would have a 4-minute delay for new use. It's not a cheap watch. It's easier to defeat Klaus every 20 days (1 or 2 Life Giving Amulet) than having to create new watches for this purpose.

Regarding Rift Watch, the purple gem should be exchanged for pure horror. It makes a lot of sense for Wanda's dark side, by the way. Wanda would be much more useful for those who play in groups.

aoe isn't really needed but welcome anyways, the purple gem is the same (i have 2 stacks what else am i gonna use them for), second chance ones, probably longer that 4 minutes, but i agree, overall not reall bad ideas

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

so what's your point? they clearly intended for her to be a glass cannon since they made her damage scale with hp and tried to make spamming healing harder, they just seemingly set old hp threshold with people fighting armorless in mind

4 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

compared to other characters, she IS a glass (not a cannon) if you think about it comperatively, she takes about 8.82 times more damage than others, meaning with the same setup and armor, she will die ~9 times faster , her effective hp is that much lower, so i would say she is a glass, also, thats assuming a person can wear armor at all times everysingle minute, which is just not true, one second caught offguard and you are done, contibuting more to the glass, still not a cannon since wolfgang can do more damage at more than 11 times the hp (the 9x lower hp is based on 150 hp, wolf has 200, thus, why the numbers are different)

[grm9]

11 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

compared to other characters, she IS a glass (not a cannon) if you think about it comperatively, she takes about 8.82 times more damage than others

taking more damage and having lower max hp are different things, taking more damage means that you need to get more healing and spend more time healing, lower max hp means that you need to heal earlier as long as you don't get oneshotted and there's nothing that oneshots you with 95% absorption and 37.5 hp except planar but they didn't add hard planar enemies or bosses yet anyway so whatever

11 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

she will die ~9 times faster

nah, healing is nearly instant and it getting interrupted is unlikely unless multiple things are trying to attack you at once, so there's no difference between dying after getting hit by FW 40 and 8 times

11 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

thats assuming a person can wear armor at all times everysingle minute, which is just not true

you can be at full hp at those times, cancel death by healing and use beefalo so that it'll take damage in case you get hit when not planning to fight, although idk when'd that even happen

11 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

still not a cannon since wolfgang can do more damage

the difference between their dps was less than 10% before skill tree

11 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

at more than 11 times the hp

max hp doesn't matter as long as you can't get oneshotted and can use all ways to heal that you're planning to use without wasting hp that you could've potentially got, that's why maxwell's lower max hp also doesn't matter

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

9 hours ago, grm9 said:

taking more damage and having lower max hp are different things, taking more damage means that you need to get more healing and spend more time healing, lower max hp means that you need to heal earlier as long as you don't get oneshotted and there's nothing that oneshots you with 95% absorption and 37.5 hp except planar but they didn't add hard planar enemies or bosses yet anyway so whatever

nah, healing is nearly instant and it getting interrupted is unlikely unless multiple things are trying to attack you at once, so there's no difference between dying after getting hit by FW 40 times and 8 times

you can be at full hp at those times, cancel death by healing and use beefalo so that it'll take damage in case you get hit when not planning to fight, although idk when'd that even happen

the difference between their dps was less than 10% before skill tree

max hp doesn't matter as long as you can't get oneshotted and can use all ways to heal that you're planning to use without wasting hp that you could've potentially got, that's why maxwell's lower max hp also doesn't matter

1st, because of her semi limited healing, if you don't get one shot, and use hp watches, either you have to carry 4-5 at a time, or thats just not plausible, and the 10% damage difference before skill tree means you mean for her to do more damage than wolf with skill tree, but die faster, because if so, i agree, not because your arguments are convincing about her being balanced this way or anything like that, but just because that would be much more fun to play

10 hours ago, grm9 said:

taking more damage and having lower max hp are different things, taking more damage means that you need to get more healing and spend more time healing, lower max hp means that you need to heal earlier as long as you don't get oneshotted and there's nothing that oneshots you with 95% absorption and 37.5 hp except planar but they didn't add hard planar enemies or bosses yet anyway so whatever

nah, healing is nearly instant and it getting interrupted is unlikely unless multiple things are trying to attack you at once, so there's no difference between dying after getting hit by FW 40 times and 8 times

you can be at full hp at those times, cancel death by healing and use beefalo so that it'll take damage in case you get hit when not planning to fight, although idk when'd that even happen

the difference between their dps was less than 10% before skill tree

max hp doesn't matter as long as you can't get oneshotted and can use all ways to heal that you're planning to use without wasting hp that you could've potentially got, that's why maxwell's lower max hp also doesn't matter

1st, because of her semi limited healing, if you don't get one shot, and use hp watches, either you have to carry 4-5 at a time, or thats just not plausible, and the 10% damage difference before skill tree means you mean for her to do more damage than wolf with skill tree, but die faster, because if so, i agree, not because your arguments are convincing about her being balanced this way or anything like that, but just because that would be much more fun to play, also, please just give ideas, no need to dismiss others ideas, you can still do constructive feed back, but i made this thread to just compile ideas of different people, not to argue if  one way is better or worse than another

[grm9]

59 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

1st, because of her semi limited healing, if you don't get one shot, and use hp watches, either you have to carry 4-5 at a time, or thats just not plausible

they're really cheap and you can only bring that many for doing bosses so why not, that's 2750 effective hp or 4750 if the fight lasts for 2 mins or more and you can use thule crowns

59 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

the 10% damage difference before skill tree means you mean for her to do more damage than wolf with skill tree, but die faster, because if so, i agree, not because your arguments are convincing about her being balanced this way or anything like that, but just because that would be much more fun to play

the point was that her dps wasn't much lower than his before skill tree and yes i've mentioned making it harder to do fights as her but faster and usually cheaper multiple times

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

38 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they're really cheap and you can only bring that many for doing bosses so why not, that's 2750 effective hp or 4750 if the fight lasts for 2 mins or more and you can use thule crowns

the point was that her dps wasn't much lower than his before skill tree and yes i've mentioned making it harder to do fights as her but faster and usually cheaper multiple times

did you even read the rest of what i said? just give ideas, no matter what they are, this is not made for arguments, just to compile ideas

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

did you even read the rest of what i said? just give ideas, no matter what they are, this is not made for arguments, just to compile ideas

it makes sense to talk about why i wouldn't want some ideas to get added 

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it makes sense to talk about why i wouldn't want some ideas to get added 

i get that, but that's not why i made this, i made this just to compile ideas, not to disagree or agree upon something or another, just to compile them, so someone like klei might get inspired from one or another of them, so please, share any ideas you have instead of continuing useless arguments

[grm9]

1 hour ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

share any ideas you have

already did in another thread

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155916-wanda-rework-ideas/

1 hour ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

instead of continuing useless arguments

they aren't, they'll be more likely to not get added if devs'll see that others don't want them to get added

[Lovens]

As a Wanda main I would be really happy with a clock container similar to Wigfrid's song container, and an upgrade to alarming clock using pure brilliance or dreadstone to do extra planar damage on top of her normal damage. Maybe depending on what she upgrades it with she could get a different alliance (lunar or shadow) similar to other characters. 

Another nice perk I think would be fun to have is lowering cooldown on her backtrek watches a bit. It's not by any means necessary but could help early game when tusks are limited and she has to tinker with watches and disassemble them to reuse for a different location. You can't do it if it's on a cooldown but this skill could help it. 

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155916-wanda-rework-ideas/

your ideas are really good, and i fully agree, just that tp clocks and the hp clock i don't think would fit to be a ruins prototype, not for gameplay (except surviving earlygame when you haven't gotten the canon part of the glass canon yet) , just that in lore, those are the only clocks she was able to make before getting to the constant, and since she didn't get into the constant by the normal deal (the thing i would guess makes them not know how to craft their character specific things before needing a station) and just "broke time" it would fit that she at least has those still in her memory (also one shot hound w/ dark sword, thats great) and since i know you also play UM, wathom copy much? (i'm looking forward to be able to play with the mod)

[grm9]

1 hour ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

just that tp clocks and the hp clock i don't think would fit to be a ruins prototype, not for gameplay

i didn't change what you need to make backstep and healing clocks and you can prototype everything that i've mentioned both, on shadow manip and full station or at least prestihatitator or broken station in case of teleportation clocks

1 hour ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

since i know you also play UM, wathom copy much?

i don't play with it, ik what wathom is and nah, wanda is slower when on full dps but he's faster, he only has increased damage taken when on full dps but wanda has it always, no custom attack anim etc.

1 hour ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

(i'm looking forward to be able to play with the mod)

yeah idk if it's compatible, haven't tested

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i didn't change what you need to make backstep and healing clocks and you can prototype everything that i've mentioned both, on shadow manip and full station or at least prestihatitator or broken station in case of teleportation clocks

i don't play with it, ik what wathom is and nah, wanda is slower when on full dps but he's faster, he only has increased damage taken when on full dps but wanda has it always, no custom attack anim etc.

yeah idk if it's compatible, haven't tested

also some feedback after i played the mod, only 2 things i noticed, 1, the shadow scyth doesn't do too much damage compared to the other options, which is kinda annoying but acceptable, and 2, the numbers don't seem to add up, i still can take a lot more hits with night armor than if i had 4x damage taken and 2x less hp, other than that pretty good, just some animations kinda don't really fit, so they look kinda weird, so i wonder if you are able to work on that

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

i still can take a lot more hits with night armor than if i had 4x damage taken and 2x less hp

i forgot to update the mod after changing the values locally, updated it now

4 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

the shadow scyth doesn't do too much damage compared to the other options, which is kinda annoying but acceptable

that's mostly intentional because idk how to make it good without mostly removing weapons variety, since it'd either replace thule club or be replaced by thule club, possibly also dark sword for long fights

4 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

just some animations kinda don't really fit, so they look kinda weird, so i wonder if you are able to work on that

which specifically?

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

which specifically?

walking when young seems a bit off, and attacks feel like they are running on 2x speed, they work, but look bad (really like an old cartoon character, which doesn't really fit), also, klauses gem deer are near undodgable, since the temp damage highly slows you down. and the backstep is changed so it won't tp you out of it, while the red deer can be dodged, the same can't be said about the blue one

[grm9]

4 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

walking when young seems a bit off

because walk speed is x1.2 and anim speed is x1.5, i could probably fix that at some point

4 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

attacks feel like they are running on 2x speed

can't do anything about that because they're on x1.5 speed like everything else

5 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

while the red deer can be dodged, the same can't be said about the blue one

you can use healing clock for time freeze to get away in time