Maxwell major rework ideas

[Mortalbane]

Why rework?
This one is different. I like Maxwell, he is my favorite character. I like his dark and arrogant attitude and shadow powers. I enjoy playing summoners in general as well.
But i think Maxwell is too strong, too good. He holds mobs and bosses in place, countering a bunch of mechanics, has zero sanity problems, which for most characters is an issue. He is by far the best gatherer, and also can summon clones who can tank and deal quite some damage. Maxwell's low hp only holds him back in the early game, but once you get some shadow gear or a beefalo, you are unstoppable. Comparing this to a Wilson who spends 7 skill points on a torch, and the lamp is still better, just makes me sad.
In addition to that, i really don't know why Maxwell is good with melee weapons and his clones are good duelists. He was a weak and cowardly magician, no? And he once again is now, since he was stripped of his powers. I know that people like to play squishy melee high-risk-high-reward characters, and Maxwell can be made into that of course, but i think he should rely on tricks in this case, not be equally strong as others AND have clones to back him up.
Thinking about all that, i've created this rework idea.

Also, with the shadow gear gradually buffing his clones, i thought that this will be the progression that DST lacks.
But instead skill trees came, so idk what to think now. I'm afraid that the official Maxwell's tree will be as boring as Wolfgang's, because he doesn't need any buffs too.


Base kit
- damage is reduced by 50%
- has recipes for Prestihatitator, Dark Sword, Night Armor and nightmare fuel already prototyped
- Shadow duelists and workers removed
- Shadow prison removed
- Shadow sneak no longer transforms mobs into their shadow forms, and is removed from base kit
- Shadow sneak is a strange name


Shadow doubles
If a King would summon servants, they would hardly be clones of him. But kings often used doubles to avoid assassination.
Back to the original design, Shadow Doubles follow Maxwell and repeat everything after him, thus helping with fighting and chores. Instead of holding dark swords and being naked, they have a shadowy copy of all Maxwell's current equipment, and adjust it if he changes anything. They can't dig and don't pick up items.
Shadow doubles taunt attackers, have only 1 hp, but are immune to AoE attacks. Only 2 of them can exist at a time.
Using reserves a part of the maximum sanity for each double, as usual. They exist until killed or despawned, and to despawn them Maxwell doesn't have to walk up to them and hit them, he "hits" from a distance.

Stand down
This ability costs nothing and despawns all summoned creatures at once.

Shadow grasp
The most iconic shadow feature of DS, the shadow hands, for some reason is unused.
You target a relatively small AoE zone, and several shadow hands sprout from Maxwell, reaching out into the targeted area. They collide with the first object that they encounter.
If it's an enemy, they grasp it, slowing down its attacks and movement for some time, while also dealing several ticks of damage as they choke the target. This effect stacks as more hands grasp the same target, potentially dropping move and attack speed of the target to zero, thus rendering it helpless for the duration. This effect is reduced for bosses.
If the hands meet a pickable resource, or the enemy is killed and drops loot, each hand grabs an item (or a stack) and retracts, putting the item into Maxwell's inventory, or dropping it at his feet if the inventory is full. Hands can pick berries, grass, etc, and can't pick up heavy objects.
The whole process of hands reaching out, interacting with the target, and retracting takes some time, and Maxwell can't move or attack for the duration. Same goes for using the ability while riding a beefalo.
Using costs sanity in addition to the Codex charge.

Shadow infusion
Maxwell pours shadow essence into a targeted creature, which slows it for some time and deals some damage in several ticks over the duration. If the creature has a shadow form (rabbits, monkeys, etc), it is transformed into that form. If killed during the effect, the creature drops some nightmare fuel.
If used on a player, Maxwell will instead freeze in place with his hand stretched out for a handshake and say something like "A deal?" or "Don't you wish to be stronger?". The targeted player can click on Maxwell to accept the deal and gain some damage and speed, at the cost of taking several instances of damage to sanity and health. Has cooldown individual per player.
Shadow infusion costs sanity in addition to the Codex charge.


Skill tree
Puppeteer branch
This branch is designed for ranged summoner gameplay.
It improves Shadow grasp in various ways, including the targeted AoE size, number of hands, and so on.
This branch can also improve Shadow infusion, for example making the target attack nearest creature, or run around in fear.
Shadow sneak (why is it sneak?) can be put here and act as a fear trap, or be the Infusion's upgrade to make it AoE.
It can allow Shadow infusion to target nightmare creatures, gaining control over them, which drains sanity.
This branch can also buff Maxwell's maximum sanity and its regeneration.

Duelist branch
This branch reflects Maxwell's view on what a "duel" is - attacking a mob with multiple shadows to assist you.
It can increase the maximum number of Doubles and their stats, allow them to survive several hits.
Allow them to act as shields - when Maxwell would take damage, he instead teleports to switch places with the closest Double, which takes the hit for Maxwell.
Doubles can increase their and Maxwell's stats the more of them are summoned.
Or they can rush to the target and detonate in a shadow explosion.

Affinity branch
Maxwell should of course have no Lunar affinity.
His first branch could allow him to summon or control something better than nightmare creatures. Like the current or upcoming Inkblight mobs.
His second branch could focus on the planar damage and shadow gear.

[Ulisesvolador]

7 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Base kit
- damage is reduced by 50%
- has recipes for Prestihatitator, Dark Sword, Night Armor and nightmare fuel already prototyped
- Shadow duelists and workers removed
- Shadow prison removed
- Shadow sneak no longer transforms mobs into their shadow forms, and is removed from base kit
- Shadow sneak is a strange name


Shadow doubles
If a King would summon servants, they would hardly be clones of him. But kings often used doubles to avoid assassination.
Back to the original design, Shadow Doubles follow Maxwell and repeat everything after him, thus helping with fighting and chores. Instead of holding dark swords and being naked, they have a shadowy copy of all Maxwell's current equipment, and adjust it if he changes anything. They can't dig and don't pick up items.
Shadow doubles taunt attackers, have only 1 hp, but are immune to AoE attacks. Only 2 of them can exist at a time.
Using reserves a part of the maximum sanity for each double, as usual. They exist until killed or despawned, and to despawn them Maxwell doesn't have to walk up to them and hit them, he "hits" from a distance.

Basically, DS Maxwell?. Please, No.

Maxwell is good as it is, these rework suggestions just bring Maxwell DS again (without the high sanity regeneration), these shadow doubles are so bad gathering materials that you're better not using them and can only save you when you're 1 hit from dying, even with the "copy player equipment" thing, unless you have bone armor, its useless as they have 1hp.

7 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Shadow grasp
The most iconic shadow feature of DS, the shadow hands, for some reason is unused.
You target a relatively small AoE zone, and several shadow hands sprout from Maxwell, reaching out into the targeted area. They collide with the first object that they encounter.
If it's an enemy, they grasp it, slowing down its attacks and movement for some time, while also dealing several ticks of damage as they choke the target. This effect stacks as more hands grasp the same target, potentially dropping move and attack speed of the target to zero, thus rendering it helpless for the duration. This effect is reduced for bosses.
If the hands meet a pickable resource, or the enemy is killed and drops loot, each hand grabs an item (or a stack) and retracts, putting the item into Maxwell's inventory, or dropping it at his feet if the inventory is full. Hands can pick berries, grass, etc, and can't pick up heavy objects.
The whole process of hands reaching out, interacting with the target, and retracting takes some time, and Maxwell can't move or attack for the duration. Same goes for using the ability while riding a beefalo.
Using costs sanity in addition to the Codex charge.

Because Maxwell can't move while using it and also they dont carry heavy objects, it's useless for farming purposes.

The combat aspect is basically shadow sneak and shadow prison combined and sounds interesting, sadly as Maxwell can't move or attack while using it, it's only good if you're playing with other people or with minions (not the "shadow doubles", they're bad).

7 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Shadow infusion
Maxwell pours shadow essence into a targeted creature, which slows it for some time and deals some damage in several ticks over the duration. If the creature has a shadow form (rabbits, monkeys, etc), it is transformed into that form. If killed during the effect, the creature drops some nightmare fuel.
If used on a player, Maxwell will instead freeze in place with his hand stretched out for a handshake and say something like "A deal?" or "Don't you wish to be stronger?". The targeted player can click on Maxwell to accept the deal and gain some damage and speed, at the cost of taking several instances of damage to sanity and health. Has cooldown individual per player.
Shadow infusion costs sanity in addition to the Codex charge.

I like this one.

Finally, we don't need a Maxwell rework again, most people are happy with 2022 rework Maxwell, they made him a fun character to play with and it's unlikely Klei will make another rework to maxwell because of these reasons.

[Mortalbane]

3 hours ago, Ulisesvolador said:

Maxwell is good as it is, these rework suggestions just bring Maxwell DS again

No, it's not DS Maxwell. I suppose that you didn't read attentively or didn't understand the idea.
Yes, Maxwell is good as he is - even too good.
This rework tries to tone him down, at least in the early game, and make his gameplay more strategic.

Basic shadow doubles tank 1 hit for you indeed, but you know that at least first two hits you won't receive - so even in an unexpected fight you have time to set up shadow sneak (if you have it) or get a better angle for your shadow grasp. Shadow infusion also helps you control and damage mobs, aiding in landing the grasp. But usually you pick your fights in DS, so plan ahead, not just cast prison and spam duelists.
Initially this is, and should be, harder than now, because in my rework ideas i try to nerf starting kit and gradually buff it with skill tree perks to give the player a sense of progression.
Upgraded shadow grasp can completely paralyze mobs, not just root them, while also dealing damage. With shadow infusion it can be stronger than current duelists + prison in some situations, but is trickier to use.
You can't move while the hands are choking your target - that makes you think before you go all in. But the infusion also damages and slows the target, and is used rather quickly.
Of course the exact mechanics, numbers, timers, etc could only be checked and adjusted in playtesting, and this is just concept.

With perk the doubles can survive more hits, but i didn't give examples how - for example by having them receive only 1 damage max, increasing their hp to 2, 3, etc, and making them teleport away after getting a hit.
Them having your armor is not for the stats, it's to make them your doubles - copy of you.
But their branch is for melee combat, so in the other branch you indeed have to be careful or rely on beefalo or other players. Or command shadow creatures. Feel like a trickster and tactician, not like a shadow superman like now.

Perks can also increase Maxwell's sanity and its regen, as in this rework he is more of a caster.

Shadow doubles help you with mining and chopping only if you chop and mine yourself - this is a nerf to let other gatherers like Woodie or Wolfgang finally step in and shine. But shadow grasp, especially upgraded, will quickly and easily gather all the dropped resources and berry bushes/grass/etc, even faster than with the current Maxwell.
He can't move while using it - until the hands return to you with loot. Cast - gather loot - then you are free to move, what makes it useless? Hands can't carry heavy objects, so that you have to carry it yourself like everyone else.

And as with all my reworks, i don't expect Klei to implement all of my ideas, cuz usually they change too much.
Maybe Klei will launch another round of reworks in the future, who knows =)
I just share my thoughts. If they take any of that - wonderful.
Maybe someone will be inspired to make a mod out of it.

[HellHeater]

On 7/31/2023 at 10:57 PM, Mortalbane said:

Base kit
- damage is reduced by 50%
- has recipes for Prestihatitator, Dark Sword, Night Armor and nightmare fuel already prototyped
- Shadow duelists and workers removed
- Shadow prison removed
- Shadow sneak no longer transforms mobs into their shadow forms, and is removed from base kit

I don't think I need to read further please just no.

I did anyway and.. AoE immunity? fr?

You're taking maxwell out of maxwell and adding exactly what he used to have in a more pointlessly complicated and cluttered (and less fun sounding) way.

Im sorry if Im being mean but as a maxwell main I really don't like this.

[Nnumber3]

I don't see maxwell right now is Op, he is a effective resource gathering, but for logs, there are countless bodies of maxwells dead from tree guards in publics, like 1/4 of servers have a dead maxwell from tree guards. and it costs sanity, and with wolf gangs skill crit, he can be faster than maxwell for rocks. yeah, he can hold things in place, but it drains your sanity really fast against bosses. and if your alone you have to: prison, attack, run away, prison, sanity food, repeat. He is a risk and rework character, do NOT underestimate how harsh the lower max health is. if your armor breaks during a boss you are dead. as most boss attacks do 15 damage armored, you would have to heal every 4 hits, unlike a normal character that is double. which makes you need to bring more healing and trap the boss to heal. he is not a cowardly magician, he is just frail, would say the opposite. it takes a while to tame a beefalo, and if you're not careful it could die and leave you screwed. shadow armor is much more of a investment then football helms, and the magic that makes it so you can't have a defensive head armor. night armor exists but is very expensive and is not easy to say insane as maxwell. it also drains your sanity on hit still, lowering it further, then terrorbeaks destroy you with their 50 unarmored damage when the armor breaks.

don't change him pls