Can we talk about Shinebugs for a minute?

[Falcore55]

I know that there's a lot on the plate right now with the new beta branch but I would like to take a minute and talk about shinebugs.  I feel as if they are extremely difficult to utilize at the moment.  In most of my games they all die off from either starvation or old age before I have the tech to cultivate them, effectively removing them entirely from my gameplay experience.  I try to catch them in a room that I grow bristle blossoms but this is only viable for a couple cycles before I get powered lights since they float around too much with a small light radius and most times escape from the room, ending up in a completely different area of my base contributing nothing.  If there was a way to catch or restrict shinebugs early game, the only way being plastic, they would become extremely useful in bristle berry farms since they produce light and no heat with the cost of feeding them some of the harvest.  I know I could use drekos to produce early plastic but they are difficult to work with as well since the feeder can't be loaded with balm lilies and for some reason their tab is always enabled without any modifications or effect.

 

Summary:

-Shinebugs die off too quickly without reproducing fast enough to sustain a minimum population until cultivation is possible

-No early to mid-game ways to contain shinebugs

-Feeders don't allow storage of balm lilies to feed drekos to produce early plastic

 

P.S. I know there are ways to keep shinebugs alive and reproduce as well as viable farms for effective dreko plastic but you would have to already know from others of how to do it instead of figuring it out yourself since it's un-intuitive.  The goal of any game is to be accessible to new players as well as have a learning curve for veterans and it seems like the game is more designed for veterans right now.

[BlueLance]

Only one minute? Its gonna be quick.

Shinebugs will not starve in the wild, they only age and reproduce unless they are confined. 

I don't understand how plastic helps unfortunately, but if you put one in a room it will survive on its own no problem, as soon as you tame it though its up to you to keep them fed. My first ranches are shinebugs and hatches. Simplest solution is to put them in a room, a pneumatic door and when you get an egg move it into the room.

Dreckos do not eat balm lillies, they eat the plant themselves, The same for mealwood and bristle berries, they eat the plant and not the fruits etc. Shine bugs do eat the fruit though

[Falcore55]

I actually didn't know about the drekos eating the plants themselves, thanks for clarifying but it did prove one of my points about difficulty for new players.  Also, please help me understand why by cycle 25 or so, all my shinebugs are entirely gone and I haven't put them in a pen?  I've wanted to play around with them but hours and hours of gameplay and multiple colonies and I still haven't been able to.  And I have placed the shinebugs in a room but they keep escaping and then they disappear.

If they can't starve in the wild, why do they have a debuff of starving while in said wild?

Also, the plastic is used to build the creature lure.

[BlueLance]

7 minutes ago, Falcore55 said:

I actually didn't know about the drekos eating the plants themselves, thanks for clarifying but it did prove one of my points about difficulty for new players.

I totally agree, currently players are complaining because if you look on a feeder it has the box ticked for animals you have which get their food from non storable sources (Slicksters, Pufts and Dreckos)

7 minutes ago, Falcore55 said:

Also, please help me understand why by cycle 25 or so, all my shinebugs are entirely gone and I haven't put them in a pen?  I've wanted to play around with them but hours and hours of gameplay and multiple colonies and I still haven't been able to.  And I have placed the shinebugs in a room but they keep escaping and then they disappear.

If they can't starve in the wild, why do they have a debuff of starving while in said wild?

You need to have a pneumatic door, it seems the other doors can let them slip through. 

If you are building a bunch the shinebugs can notoriously be stuck in walls which causes them to become confined and they will not produce eggs, the same problem occus if they are in an area with several other critters such as hatches, if the area is too small "Per critter" they will all stop producing eggs I think it is 12 tiles per critter.

All animals get the hungry de-buff in the wild but they do not have an actual calorie count, they will still eat etc though, if the animal was dying from hunger it would say Starving and it takes 10 cycles from that point for the animal to starve.

Also another pointer in case you didn't know, an egg loses its viability to hatch once you put it in storage, it takes 10 cycles for an egg to hit 0 viability and then it will crack giving you a shell and raw egg

[Falcore55]

I'll keep my eye out for trapped shinebugs but it would be nice if Klei made a patch for them, like they did with the dupes getting stuck all the time, to avoid that happening.  Another thing that would help is to restrict the movement of shinebugs to the room they're in but I'm not sure if it's entirely necessary.

At the moment I'm over 800 hours played on the game and I still get confused about game mechanics.  Maybe this post should've been "Please make the game easier to understand for new players"

[BlueLance]

1 minute ago, Falcore55 said:

I'll keep my eye out for trapped shinebugs but it would be nice if Klei made a patch for them, like they did with the dupes getting stuck all the time, to avoid that happening.  Another thing that would help is to restrict the movement of shinebugs to the room they're in but I'm not sure if it's entirely necessary.

At the moment I'm over 800 hours played on the game and I still get confused about game mechanics.  Maybe this post should've been "Please make the game easier to understand for new players"

Once you use a grooming station and feeder they tend to stick near them instead of going for a wander  I tend to get a rancher ASAP so I can get it started   Dupes still get their heads stuck, but I must admit it is much rarer now than it used to be. Shinebugs seem to just do it as much as possible

We have similar hours XD i think im just about to hit 900 though.

[Falcore55]

All good stuff!  Thanks for the help.  A little more than a minute huh?  I'm in the low 800's though, I've been working toward a space colony but I might wait until the new changes come along further before continuing it.  I'll just get my fix watching Brothgar's "Ultimate Automation Challenge" for now.

[BlueLance]

1 minute ago, Falcore55 said:

All good stuff!  Thanks for the help.  A little more than a minute huh?  I'm in the low 800's though, I've been working toward a space colony but I might wait until the new changes come along further before continuing it.  I'll just get my fix watching Brothgar's "Ultimate Automation Challenge" for now.

I have many minutes if it is to help someone  

Automation is nice, sometimes people over complicate it though! GL

[Sasza22]

5 hours ago, Falcore55 said:

-Feeders don't allow storage of balm lilies to feed drekos to produce early plastic

Just hopping in to say that glossy dreckos only eat mealwood and bristle blossom, so even when you set up balm lillies growing in your stable only regular dreckos will eat them.

[Falcore55]

I mostly mentioned the dreckos with balm lilies as an example.  I am aware consumption of mealwood is required to produce glossy dreckos, just wanted to address the feeder's confusing tabs regarding them.  I've produced glossy dreckos but it isn't very clear regarding them for newer players.  As the game stands, a player needs to consult the forums regularly to find out how certain things work.  An example of this is how ventilation works, especially with bridges.  When I first started, I completely avoided them for many hours because they were too frustrating to build, deconstruct and rebuild, trying to find the proper way to place them.  It was only after reading many posts on the forums and watching youtubers such as CrypticFox, Brothgar, and Grindthisgame did I understand many of the game's hidden mechanics.

My steam account may say I have 800+ hours but it is more like 900-1000+ hours with research(though the research could be written off as entertainment as well).

[mr peeps]

as cute as they are, they can be quite tedious. They have pretty much no purpose whatsoever except for getting stuck in doors and producing a tiny bit of light. 

I think this could be remedied by maybe some sort of lamp that they could go into to keep them situated in somewhat the same place? Who knows! I think there needs to be a bit more focus as to what the purpose of them are.

 

[Falcore55]

I actually love that idea.  A shinebug lamp, all that delicious light and zero calories, I mean power.

[Oozinator]

Perhaps when Klei adds light/darkness, together with expressions it could be fun and give some use to shinebugs.

[Mattheww]

Their main use in early/mid-game is decor and lighting, they look really good in my opinion, and the best about them: they could be used for algae terrariums to boost them without putting any lights that occupy space

[Yunru]

They work perfect with lures.

They shouldn't need nearly as much space though.

[Alfons100]

Why are they not wrangleable, like. All they do is be pretty and raise decor. They should of all things be wrangleable

Or why stop there, make everything Tame Wrangleable. This allows you to use those Critter-drop-off limits so you can for instance, only have 2 Shinebugs in this room that isn't the Stable itself.

[BlueLance]

6 minutes ago, Alfons100 said:

Why are they not wrangleable, like. All they do is be pretty and raise decor. They should of all things be wrangleable

Or why stop there, make everything Tame Wrangleable. This allows you to use those Critter-drop-off limits so you can for instance, only have 2 Shinebugs in this room that isn't the Stable itself.

You can wrangle them by putting a critter drop off in the room they are in and setting the limit to zero or unticking shinebugs from its list. Don't need to be tame or in a stable

[Slvrsrfr]

I gotta get a hold of it, I feel the bug pop is important. And I love them, second best part of the game. I've not tried ranching yet... good tips here thanks! save me hours of my life figuring that stuff out. too old for that much trial and error...

[Slvrsrfr]

the population only seems to dwindle. can shinebugs be coaxed into produced more than one egg?

 

Edit~I was concerned the grooming station would have no effect on them. Thank you for the help and guidance.

I didn't want to go for the research just to have it not work. Thanks! The material/information in the book is severely lacking.

Now I know. I deconstructed stor cont's with phospherite, and put ration boxes for sweep only berries but they never have more than one baby, and then sometimes not one. I watch the 3 bugs that spawn in the ruins dwindle by cy150 to a single bug that will need to be saved. bleh.

There's a 1/4ton of shells tho' ;p

[thewreckedangle]

stick a grooming station and even just one feeder with phosphorite in it nearby. have 1 rancher. watch your bugs suddenly explode in numbers. and no, currently the grooming station doesnt need to be in a room to groom them.

[Slvrsrfr]

2 hours ago, thewreckedangle said:

stick a grooming station and even just one feeder with phosphorite in it nearby. have 1 rancher. watch your bugs suddenly explode in numbers. and no, currently the grooming station doesnt need to be in a room to groom them.

you have a purple egg! So jealous, is that a shine variant?

And also, there is a animation attached to shinebugs being groomed?!?? Plz let that be true. Does he(they) call them over like the other critters?

I was wondering about grooming, and the need for incubators. But to research it out just to find out i need plastic or some ****, is too much disappointment to bear. So, thanks again for the informative straightforward explanations! ty

[thewreckedangle]

 

this is some cycles later. i have several morphs of the shine bug by doing nothing. (only feeding phosphorite)
at the same time i'm ranching hatches as you can see. i already have lots of omelettes and BBQ and now i've sleet wheat, everyone is upping their job tiers. there is only one rancher here. i have 12 dupes. i do not incubate as they are so fast anyway. nor do i automate. i just check the egg cracker manually/use lockers.

[Sasza22]

On 9.08.2018 at 8:47 PM, Slvrsrfr said:

you have a purple egg! So jealous, is that a shine variant?

It`s super easy to get shinebug morphs early. A shinebug that ate gristle berry once gets 51% for a sunny bug (50 decor instead of 30). I did a a morph breeding farm once. All you need is a feeder set to a really low amount (1kg) and put the appropriate food for each morph. Alternatively you can put the feeder in chlorine so the food won`t spoil. You can keep phosphorite on the floor. The bugs will prioritise eating from the feeder and only eat phosphorite when the feeder is empty.

The shinebug morph chain goes like this:
Regular + gristle berry -> Sunny(orange) + fried mushroom -> Royal(purple) + pepper bread -> Vital(pink) + stuffed berry -> Placid(blue) +phosphorus (not phosphorite) -> Nega(black, no light) + barbeque -> Crystal(white)

Note that the last 2 no longer eat phosphorite but live 75 cycles and give 80 decor.

EDIT: I listed the old names of the shinebug morphs from before the expressive upgrade. Now they are a bit different but i believe the colors are the same.

[thewreckedangle]

but don't accidentally turn them all into nega bugs (the black ones) without realizing and then wonder why your blossoms aren't growing anymore

[Sasza22]

11 hours ago, thewreckedangle said:

but don't accidentally turn them all into nega bugs (the black ones) without realizing and then wonder why your blossoms aren't growing anymore

It`s pretty hard to get nega bugs. In the current version you need to drop phosphorite near magma or molten metal to melt it itno phsphorus then cool it down and deliver to the feeder when you already have the placid bugs. Otherwise it`s a 2% chance. It`s not something that`ll screw you over randomly.