Using a silver plate or bowl for a lot of meals is a waste

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

The only thing you would want a blue coin other than a silver dish/bowl for is the gate key. But since you can't serve it with a dish/bowl for the first meal, it becomes an impossible task to create a new 

Deserts in particular seem to have this waste issue; Carrot cake, Cheesecake, Pudding, Scone, Trifle all give you one or two saphire coins when you serve with a plate, but nothing extra. This results in the plate being a waste, as you'll just turn that saphire coin into a new bowl/plate for the next meal. You could argue that using a bowl, you could then turn the bowl into a plate, or vice versa, for the next meal, if you need, but that's if you don't do salt runs, which you should be anyway. The only way this could be a non-waste is if you got at least 2 coins for serving with a plate for every meal every time.

It may be too late, but it just baffles me that none noticed during the beta at all, considering that right after the live went up, somebody did a solo run of 7 meals just 3/4 hours into the live being active.

And what the heck is up with Candy giving you LESS for serving with a silver plate?

[Viru]

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say. You're just annoyed by the extra sapphire coins you get which end up as "waste" since you don't use it?

Cheesecake served with a silver plate gives a red mark instead of sapphire.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info on the Candy. It gives 4 more coins if you serve with a silver dish, not less.

[xyrilyn]

Recipes #1 to #20 - Silverware improves their offering from only coins to 1 sapphire and coins

Recipes #24 to #45 - Silverware improves their offering from sapphire and coins to red mark, coins (and maybe some sapphire)

Recipes #46 to #65 - Silverware improves their offering from red mark and coins to favors, coins (and maybe some red marks)

In general, the above holds for the range of recipes stated, so plates and bowls do improve dishes. However, you are right when saying silverware does not have much improvement for desserts, which I believe is intended and not game-breaking.

Named examples:

Mashed Potatoes, Garlic Bread and Tomato Soup - all three give sapphire and coins on normal offering, but with silverware, they give a red mark and coins.

Steak Frites, Shooter Sandwich, Bacon Wrapped Meat - all three give red marks and coins on normal offering, but with silverware, they give a favor, a red mark, a sapphire, and some coins.

[ItsPizzaTime]

9 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Deserts in particular seem to have this waste issue; Carrot cake, Cheesecake, Pudding, Scone, Trifle

Carrot Cake? If you silver plate carrot cake its 2 sapphire back.. you literally get a free plate.

Also some of the other ones particularly Scone and Trifle give you 1 sapphire which is half a plate, not all that bad if you have an extra one laying around.

I believe silver plating gives extra points which is good for runs that you want to max out appeasement points xp bonus.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@Virusei the fact that there are dishes for which the plates are useful, doesn't take away that there are a lot that don't have any reason to use a plate for. That's all I really wanted to say tbh.

@ItsPizzaTime that would only be useful only if you have a Wes on your team. You should have one on your team anyway, but that's not always the case. And if it isn't, plating Carrot Cake still stays a waste. And it's a waste regardless, because you can NOT plate it and get one saphire coin back, meaning you get an extra plate if you have a Wes on your team regardless of whether you silver-plate it or not, which means there's no point in silver-plating it. In fact, you get less normal coins, which makes it worse! This is basic calculus, how is this not understood? You could not use a plate for the Carrot Cake and still end up with the same amount of plates left over, PLUS 3 more coins than if you WERE to use a plate. The only scenario that you would need to actually plate the Carrot Cake in is if you needed to make two silver Bowls, or one if you don't have Wes, but again, you get a bunch of them from the safes, and you can get saphire coins from meals that don't need to be plated or actually are good to plate in general (i.e. giving red marks/favors from plating).

@xyrilyn yeah, I'm not saying using plate for all meals is bad. In fact, a lot of them it's good, as you can get favors and/or red marks with plating which will be essential in victory. But anything that just gives 1 extra saphire coin from using a plate on than not using a plate on is a total waste.

[Extant]

The extra rewards for plating/bowling for quite a few of the dishes is underwhelming and even made worse when factoring in Wes.

I simply think that the developers created far too many meals for the event (70 is probably twice as much as was needed) and just had to come up with some differences in rewards without giving them any thought on the spot.

At least they did give us access to the database so we can have an idea of what to do with our silver plates/bowls and what not to do with them. Aside from having testing out each craving as well. Curse you bread, fish, and veggie cravings!

[ItsPizzaTime]

59 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

@ItsPizzaTime that would only be useful only if you have a Wes on your team. You should have one on your team anyway, but that's not always the case. And if it isn't, plating Carrot Cake still stays a waste. And it's a waste regardless, because you can NOT plate it and get one saphire coin back, meaning you get an extra plate if you have a Wes on your team regardless of whether you silver-plate it or not, which means there's no point in silver-plating it. In fact, you get less normal coins, which makes it worse! This is basic calculus, how is this not understood? You could not use a plate for the Carrot Cake and still end up with the same amount of plates left over, PLUS 3 more coins than if you WERE to use a plate. The only scenario that you would need to actually plate the Carrot Cake in is if you needed to make two silver Bowls, or one if you don't have Wes, but again, you get a bunch of them from the safes, and you can get saphire coins from meals that don't need to be plated or actually are good to plate in general (i.e. giving red marks/favors from plating).

Theres more ways to get sapphire than using a silver plate... I'm almost positive that silver plated food gives you more appeasement points and having the silver on hand and not using it at all is a complete waste unless you do not care about appeasement points. After you do your second dessert, money is not an issue at all so getting less coins back for using silver plates isn't even an issue.

In long enough runs, having all the garbage coins no one is going to use laying around is actually a hindrance, less to pick up is a favorable thing for me by far once we have 100+ coins.

[Fuffles]

Use Wes then. He gets a discount on the plate/bowl cost

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

8 hours ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

Use Wes then. He gets a discount on the plate/bowl cost

Do I really need to demonstrate the math for you?

Either way, there are 24 meals for which using a plate is a complete waste, and there are 6 meals that it might be a waste, depending on the circumstances. Though, I think 4 or so of the 6 meals that are dependent, are really "do I want to trade a dish worth of a saphire coin or two for 3 old coins or not?" which probably isn't going to happen. That's 30 meals total that don't always give a net gain of coins in terms of using a silver bowl/plate. I really don't see why Klei couldn't have set dishes to give more saphire coins, they are not that valuable once you get the gate open.

You know what, I WILL demonstrate this to you. And I'll take that Carrot Cake as an example @ItsPizzaTime:

 

Say you have 1 silver plate.

You serve Carrot cake without silver plate. Net gain 6 old coins, 1 saphire coin.

Result is 2 worths of silver plates/bowls, 6 worths of old coins WITH Wes.

Result is 1.5 worths of silver plates/bowls, 6 worths of old coins WITHOUT Wes.

 

You serve Carrot cake WITH silver plate. Net gain 3 old coins, 2 saphire coins. Net loss, 1 silver plate, or one worths of saphire coin... TWO if you don't have Wes on your team.

Result is 2 worths of silver plates/bowls, 3 worths of old coins WITH Wes.

Result is 1 worths of silver plates/bowls, 3 worths of old coins WITHOUT Wes.

 

Do you get it now? Using a plate for soomething like a carrot cake even, is a total of net loss. It's ONLY a net gain if you want to swap out one dish for one bowl, but that's it, and you probably will never be in that scenario.

[Kolascay]

If you're running Wes you should probably plate it for extra appeasement points because you get the sapphire right back. It's good late match when you don't really need coins all that much, and you're more focused on getting more XP.

[ItsPizzaTime]

53 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Say you have 1 silver plate.

You serve Carrot cake without silver plate. Net gain 6 old coins, 1 saphire coin.

Result is 2 worths of silver plates/bowls, 6 worths of old coins WITH Wes.

Result is 1.5 worths of silver plates/bowls, 6 worths of old coins WITHOUT Wes.

 

You serve Carrot cake WITH silver plate. Net gain 3 old coins, 2 saphire coins. Net loss, 1 silver plate, or one worths of saphire coin... TWO if you don't have Wes on your team.

Result is 2 worths of silver plates/bowls, 3 worths of old coins WITH Wes.

Result is 1 worths of silver plates/bowls, 3 worths of old coins WITHOUT Wes.

 

Do you get it now? Using a plate for soomething like a carrot cake even, is a total of net loss. It's ONLY a net gain if you want to swap out one dish for one bowl, but that's it, and you probably will never be in that scenario.

Ok I get your point, but you continue to ignore that appeasement points are probably increased when plating a dish with silver, and this is always better than ending a game with silver plates and bowls on the ground. If you are not using silver to plate strong meals and otherwise making meals that constantly give you 1 or 2 sapphire over the course of any lengthy run then your appeasement score is probably always crap as is the xp bonus accompanied by it.

I just find it astonishing at how hard you are ignoring the even slight possibility of positive benefits to plating many meals with silver, and that you would rather hold out for one of the few dishes you deem worthy of plating. You act like sapphires are a scarce resource and need to be saved for secluded dishes, are you really not getting sapphires every other dish after your second dessert? I can only imagine it's the result of making one of the first 10 foods you learn over and over.

If silver doesn't give meals any more appeasement points than they normally do (which would  cause me to agree with you) that would be a serious mistake on Klei's end and I doubt that is the case.

Edit: Also would like to add I never cook as Wes nor have the Wes buy me things with sapphire as their time doing whatever role they are doing is far more important to me than saving an extra coin which are more than a dime a dozen.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@ItsPizzaTime I never knew how the score system really worked, I just thought it was sort of fixed on meals and that being all. No, I don't make the same 10 recipes every time, though I often can remember some specific ones, so the result might as well be something along the lines. When you don't have grill recipes, because why the **** would you, difficulty and time = money  considered, I would rather stick to what I can make and if I have spare time, get something else. Over level 50, still can't do a solo run, what do you expect?

Later on you're probably going to make dishes which give red marks or even favors anyway if you continue to cook beyond just the 3 favors, so unless your plan is no repeat dish and doing like 30 dishes or so, the end result is still a waste for at least a third of the dishes.

I actually have asked the Wes player for getting a plate/bowl in my place because even though we had a ton of coins, we had barely any bowls/plates left (one bowl and one plate, I believe, if that) and we only had 2 sapphire coins, so, go figure, it has been scarce in my experience.

[ItsPizzaTime]

3 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

so unless your plan is no repeat dish and doing like 30 dishes or so, the end result is still a waste for at least a third of the dishes.

 

I mean there's a bonus for not making a repeat dish, and again the xp bonuses max out at 30 minutes at 1k appeasement points (meaning yea you have to know some dishes) so these are indeed important factors that someone like myself who cares about gaining xp now that I've 100%'d the event will be attempting to meet on every run.

5 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

When you don't have grill recipes, because why the **** would you

The grill has just as many high quality dishes that give lots of points just like the other cooking stations, but one of its best qualities that I think make it special is it also tends to be the fastest to make a meal on, so IMO learning the grill = saving time/gaining more points.

 

5 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Over level 50, still can't do a solo run, what do you expect?

I'm not expecting anything different than what I've read so far, which is you admitting you don't fully understand the mechanics while griping about those same mechanics. I'm glad you can count sapphire coins, but you didn't even take the time to think about whether there could be a single reason why someone would plate a dish that "nets a loss".

[Viru]

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

When you don't have grill recipes, because why the **** would you, difficulty and time = money  considered, I would rather stick to what I can make and if I have spare time, get something else.

It's funny seeing someone complaining about grill being a waste of time when it's the fastest thing you can cook meals on. You get also get so many coins after a few dishes that the cost of it is irrelevant.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

21 hours ago, Virusei said:

It's funny seeing someone complaining about grill being a waste of time when it's the fastest thing you can cook meals on. You get also get so many coins after a few dishes that the cost of it is irrelevant.

Not saying it's a waste, it's just harder to wrap your mind around. I am aware that grill is probably the best one to make dishes on, but the most basic recipes are quite difficult to get, you would rather just say "**** it", given not much research, and stick to good old cookpot as your first choice of a cooking station.

[Viru]

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Not saying it's a waste, it's just harder to wrap your mind around. I am aware that grill is probably the best one to make dishes on, but the most basic recipes are quite difficult to get, you would rather just say "**** it", given not much research, and stick to good old cookpot as your first choice of a cooking station.

I'm not saying to get grill as a start, but to get it later on. You said grill was a waste of time and money which I translated it to, "I don't buy or use it at all."

Besides, how is it fun to do the same strat over and over? Why not challenge yourself every now with new ways to win or a set goal (ex. no duplicate meals the entire 30+ minute match)? You don't need research anyway, just the recipe book opened, it even has filters now which makes it more convenient.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@Virusei one reason:

Less errors in workflow, more points in less time spent.

[MondayNight]

Another good example of your classic-by-now anxious and obfuscated nitpicking and how-to-make-problems-from-non-problems.

Before complaining about "uselessness of items in the game" pls look a bit at the pareto principle aka 80/20 Rule - whatever any dev. would do to any game out there, 20% of items will always-and-no-matter-what account for 80% of uses and whatnot. It just happens you are one of the lost souls lamenting about why 80% of items are colloquially superfluous and/or contextual. Simple answer: human nature of optimization.

In this line of thoughts there will always be "lacking" products - in Gorge those seem to be silverware + deserts in terms of income vs. no-silverware-used - yet this is subjective as well. As subjective as for me being a waste of playing time not using silverware; or taking advice from people literally obsessed with efficiency above just having fun in a pixel environment. Cheers!

[watermelen671]

What is the point of this thread? 

If you think using silverware for certain dishes is a waste...than don't. Simple as that.

I'll just keep using silverware as I please, and pray to god that I never run into you while match hopping.

Spoiler

Why do you keep trying to spark a discussion where none is needed? 

I like to have fun while I'm playing video games, but do you? Are you having fun right now? 'Cuz it sounds like you're having a miserable time. If all you can do is point out what's wrong with everything instead of just enjoying what Klei spent so many hour into making, that, need I remind you that they never had to do in the first place, you're probably having a miserable time.

Spoiler

They don't owe us anything; this is a 100% finished product, shipped and not requiring any more content added to it.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

On 05/07/2018 at 5:25 PM, xxVERSUSxy said:

Another good example of your classic-by-now anxious and obfuscated nitpicking and how-to-make-problems-from-non-problems.

Before complaining about "uselessness of items in the game" pls look a bit at the pareto principle aka 80/20 Rule - whatever any dev. would do to any game out there, 20% of items will always-and-no-matter-what account for 80% of uses and whatnot. It just happens you are one of the lost souls lamenting about why 80% of items are colloquially superfluous and/or contextual. Simple answer: human nature of optimization.

In this line of thoughts there will always be "lacking" products - in Gorge those seem to be silverware + deserts in terms of income vs. no-silverware-used - yet this is subjective as well. As subjective as for me being a waste of playing time not using silverware; or taking advice from people literally obsessed with efficiency above just having fun in a pixel environment. Cheers!

Are you suggesting I shouldn't criticise something when I see flaws in it because it's part of some arbitrary 20% guaranteed flaw idea that you made up?

1 hour ago, watermelen671 said:

What is the point of this thread? 

If you think using silverware for certain dishes is a waste...than don't. Simple as that.

I'll just keep using silverware as I please, and pray to god that I never run into you while match hopping.

  Reveal hidden contents

Why do you keep trying to spark a discussion where none is needed? 

I like to have fun while I'm playing video games, but do you? Are you having fun right now? 'Cuz it sounds like you're having a miserable time. If all you can do is point out what's wrong with everything instead of just enjoying what Klei spent so many hour into making, that, need I remind you that they never had to do in the first place, you're probably having a miserable time.

  Reveal hidden contents

They don't owe us anything; this is a 100% finished product, shipped and not requiring any more content added to it.

Yeah, if you didn't enjoy what you bought, just don't buy it or use it, or play it or whatever, no need to make a complaint/review/criticism/suggestion, all is good if you just shut up and walk away, right?

Don't meant to be sarcastic, but the point behind your posts, guys, seems to be ominously damaging to criticism as a concept. Flaws are there to be pointed out so that you can improve, not just put them under the rug to hide incompetence or something.

Btw yes, I have fun playing video games. I have bought one that I really like. And I have raged at it, and hated various things about it. But I think it's a 9/10 game as a whole, so I don't know what your problem is. If I have a problem with something, I will point it out. If you have a counter-argument for it, give it to me, instead of telling me to shut up and implying that my opinion is invalid because something something you're being negative.

[watermelen671]

4 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Yeah, if you didn't enjoy what you bought, just don't buy it or use it, or play it or whatever, no need to make a complaint/review/criticism/suggestion, all is good if you just shut up and walk away, right?

If you didn't enjoy what you bought, you can always just refund it. Refunding it is much better than never playing it, because at least you get your money back instead of having a glorified coaster.

Nothing is meant for everyone. If it's not your cup of tea, there's no problem in emptying your cup and pouring yourself a new one.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

If you didn't enjoy what you bought, you can always just refund it. Refunding it is much better than never playing it, because at least you get your money back instead of having a glorified coaster.

Nothing is meant for everyone. If it's not your cup of tea, there's no problem in emptying your cup and pouring yourself a new one.

So, you're going off-topic and saying that criticism has no bearing because reasons? Yeah, ok.

[watermelen671]

Just now, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

So, you're going off-topic and saying that criticism has no bearing because reasons? Yeah, ok.

I give up trying to converse with you. Burn the cup for all I care. Here, have this gif and enjoy:

Spoiler