The game is now terrible

[Yoma_Nosme]

Two things define you: Your patience when you have nothing and your attitude when you have everything.

[Oozinator]

30 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

Two things define you: Your patience when you have nothing and your attitude when you have everything.

Nice, but i don't understand really what this has to do, with the OP stuff posted?
When we are now OT, i could ask perhaps something about a personal eye/color study?
Look at my picture and please describe what is happening to your eyes, anything unusual?
Click on picture and then click again to max it..
^^

[Kasuha]

7 hours ago, w3amd said:

I've been developing software for 30+ years. ONI is on the road to failure. Expansion too quick without going over your bug list and ignoring it. Bugs have been building since Tubes. They haven't been fixed. Just look at the bug thread forum. They need to slow down and get their eggs in order. ONI has a big memory leak, this has not ever been addressed.

I've been developing software for 30+ years and I don't see any significant issue about ONI. What we have now is a feature preview branch in an early access (pre-release) state. Yes, there are long-standing non-lethal issues and hopefully they'll get addressed before the game leaves early access. Klei game release history suggests they do things this way and they produce high quality successful games.

[JonnyMonroe]

My issue this update is nothing to do with bugs and more to do with design direction. I came to this game from factorio and what I like in both is designing systems that can then be left to run on auto. My goal for most bases is to get them into a state where I could potentially leave them for 1000+ cycles and come back and find nothing broken and all dupes still alive. Ranching, especially mark 2, has taken a step backwards in that regard. If you want to use critters at all now then the only way to maintain stable populations (no pun intended) is to manually check your stables and incubate new eggs as and when required.

Ranching - where you can automate a volcano but you can't automate a fish.

[BlueLance]

7 hours ago, w3amd said:

Invisible dupes, dupes that starve for no reason, performance issues, priority issues and the list goes on.

ONI runs 73 threads and no performance out of them.

Finally, the bug list keeps expanding and devs aren't on top of it.

Well, its almost as if you are playing a preview branch.

1. Dupes are currently invisible only on the preview branch
2. Performance is a drag on preview branch because of software and they alerted us to that
3. Priority issues? seems fine to me, if you cannot use the new one you can pretty much use it as if it were the older system.
4. List goes on, in the preview branch where things are going to be changing because...well its a preview.

Also you have 30 years of experience, unfortunately your 30 years does not mean you can determine a game to be doomed, so far it has been going pretty well and will probably continue to do so, sure there are things they can do that would be good, but if its anything like other EA games I have played they will probably do an update at some point to squash bugs once they have added enough content, because I am pretty sure someone out there would complain that they have not released new content for 6 weeks because all they did was "Squash bugs which didn't affect them or ruined their game play"

1 minute ago, JonnyMonroe said:

Ranching - where you can automate a volcano but you can't automate a fish.

I really hope they make it if you have an incubator you can use it to "Set" a limit on critters in a room, if it falls below it incubate the critter etc it really needs to be done or something similar

[Stoof]

Ignoring the preview branch for obvious reasons, I can think of only 3 game breaking bugs, which is pretty good for ea. That one of those is with a core mechanic has me a little concerned but until the game releases with those unfixed I can't really conplain, I'm enjoying myself.

[Yoma_Nosme]

2 hours ago, Oozinator said:

Nice, but i don't understand really what this has to do, with the OP stuff posted?

Well it's a bit philosophic, I admit to that.

First.

I read this forum for quite some time now as most of you do too and there's always someone who is turned off by the development that was made/wasn't made.

But this game is early access. You/we participate in this and every time they release a new update beta( unstable branch build; donno what's the name of this pre-update) somebody gets salty.

It's just unfair calling it a total face plant that brings me to...

...Second. The quote. It's from a brilliant Irish man and it has to do with the person you are.

This game isn't finished so it comes down to what do you think. Half empty/half full cup, kind of. Let's say you have nothing to say in a matter, can you wait patiently since it's not yours anyway to decide or make a fuss. Now let's say you can participate/contribute to it's development or a matter. Will you be helpful and contribute constructivly? How will you treat the ones who enabled you to contribute?

[Lumina]

5 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

This is first preview and most likely update which I'm ignoring. It's just not worth my time getting frustrated with more and more broken game.

You are right to ignore the preview if you are frustrated by broken game. I did the same some updates ago, when one crash happened when doing a basic action, and played again when the crash was fixed.

 

About bug fixing, i think it's a delicate balance. There must be new content so players aren't angry. There must be bug fixes so game is working well. Bug fixes isn't usually exiting for players. So it's hard to do a "only bug fix update", and when you add content, you add bug. Not an easy problem to solve.

[Darkpony]

Im really confused as to what bugs they are even talking about theres basically none in the released version unless you count heat deletion exploits. Those however are easy to avoid and im convinved they have purposefully left those in for now.

[Kasuha]

25 minutes ago, Darkpony said:

Im really confused as to what bugs they are even talking about theres basically none in the released version unless you count heat deletion exploits. Those however are easy to avoid and im convinved they have purposefully left those in for now.

There's a TON of bugs, but they are not game breaking and players don't have serious problems getting around them. Most of the time, at least.If you want a free sample, check the bug reports section.

Players often don't care that there are some bugs if the game as a whole is playable and fun.

[Mr.Tarunio]

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

why help the devs when you can make a forum post, GENIUS. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gurgel]

I think Klei has a problem and it has nothing to do with bugs. I think they are putting in too many features that are not useful, and neglect areas were things are really missing. The former is known as "Gold Plating" in the software industry and one of the main reasons why projects fail. Two examples are the tubular update (basically useless) and the conveyor belt system (at least questionable). At the same time, water gets scarce, recycling is still not sustainable and food after food becomes non-sustainable. The Ranching update MK1 was needed, but MKII took it wayyy too far. 

What is urgently needed is that Klei abstains from adding new features for a while and focuses on balance and sustainability. They should be bold enough to _remove_ things that do not really add anything as well.

 

[Oozinator]

Just now, Gurgel said:

.... I think they are putting in too many features that are not useful, and neglect areas were things are really missing...

Good point, but.
I was always complaining about unused objects like the handsanitizer, but now they closed the loop(in a nice/fresh way for me).
Perhaps some things would make more sense for us players, when we would know all those little secrets they have in mind for ONI.

[BlueLance]

I know, Chlorine now has a use.... I will feed it to my squeaky puft, and then submerge it XD unless a conveyor belt can transport it to the hand sanitizer without it off gassing

[Yoma_Nosme]

I remember when players suggested a machine to make oxylite so they could store excess oxygen or transport oxygen to remote areas.

Now they don't make a machine that does that but added a new mechanic (breeding ) that is capable of this and so much more and conveyors that can transport it too.

I think this is a very genius workaround.

Can't wait to see what else will come

[Gurgel]

16 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

I know, Chlorine now has a use.... I will feed it to my squeaky puft, and then submerge it XD unless a conveyor belt can transport it to the hand sanitizer without it off gassing

I tried to transport slime with the conveyors. Completely non-viable as it gassed out like crazy. I expect the same will happen with Bleachstone.

[JonnyMonroe]

15 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

Now they don't make a machine that does that but added a new mechanic (breeding ) that is capable of this and so much more and conveyors that can transport it too

A machine would be controllable through automation. The ability to make oxylite, bleach stone or any of the new critter products is not worth having to micro manage eggs and stable populations.

When they fix conveyors I can at least make an auto egg sorter for egg types but I really don't want to have to build 8+ ranches for all the different critter types and have to spend half a cycle a week checking them all to see if new eggs need incubating.

[Kasuha]

5 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I tried to transport slime with the conveyors. Completely non-viable as it gassed out like crazy. I expect the same will happen with Bleachstone.

You can submerge the conveyor to stop outgassing. And I believe it also doesn't outgas when the conveyor is going through a wall.

[BlueLance]

41 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I tried to transport slime with the conveyors. Completely non-viable as it gassed out like crazy. I expect the same will happen with Bleachstone.

Sorry I had meant from the wall to the hand sanitizer, I tend to put my slime along the walls to stop it from off gassing.

[Hechicera]

On 4/24/2018 at 8:19 AM, Kasuha said:

Players often don't care that there are some bugs if the game as a whole is playable and fun.

I'd caution that this is logically faulty thinking. And I'm another 30+ year retired programmer.

Without knowing Klei's codebase, build environment and schedule time allocated to bug squashing, I can't join in any dire predictions of outcome based on current bug count.

Fun, however is very subjective. With many of these games there is also an addictive quality which I'll call engagement, that also bites you harder or less hard. Putting up with bugs can vary based on your personal frustration level, your engagement level, which bugs you ran into, and other things like .. were you interrupted due to non-game issues while trying to work-around it so the last memory isn't enjoyable but "ugh bug", so highly interrupted game play even matters. Read a lot by early game developers trying to tease out "what is fun", not easy and always will be subjective.

If the OP says the game is not fun for him with the frequency of bugs he saw last run then it is not fun for him. Period. It may be fun for someone else in exactly the same state.

Their feedback is valid, and I'm sad for this community for attacking them for it. Sure, this part of release is to find bugs. But it should also serve as a measure when newer entrants to the game play who are less engaged in it do not find it engaging enough to overlook the interruptions due to bugs. It is a reasonable proxy for players with more interrupted game sessions and valuable game play feedback.

And I'm with the OP on current state (minus predictions). I love critter sim/build stuff; I keep my original SimFarm 3.5" floppies and manual for nostalgia! But I'm not finding the last two iterations that engaging, less than prior opt-in previews. So my tolerance for opt-in levels of bugs is fine. I think it is, for me, a combination of the shrinking of the map making exploration less meaningful, and more of the in-base activities feeling "busy work" ish. I love the idea of critters, but combined with the priority, map and other food changes, I find playing it all less enjoyable than I had hoped. So, it is the game play that fails to engage me past a handful of bugs. The art is, as usual with Klei, fantastic.

 

[Mayveena]

Also people need to remember that not everyone plays this game as an ultimate optimization game where everything must be perfect. I use tubes because I like seeing the dupes go through them and I like setting them up. So what if it takes awhile? Or it's not an optimal use of plastic.

I always worry about Klei only listening to the min/max people and forgetting about us casual roleplayers who just want to see dupes do interesting things.

[Arash70]

@Oozinator don't bring mandalas into this

Oxygen Not Included is like Katana

It won't be done until it's polished for thousands of hours by the hands of Master Yogurtson (aka @Cheerio)

 

Jokes aside, take it easy guys, it's not done yet

[Oozinator]

28 minutes ago, Arash70 said:

@Oozinator don't bring mandalas into this

Oxygen Not Included is like Katana

@Cheerio

 

Don't bring katanas into this!
For me ONI is like a mandala!

[Saturnus]

As I jokingly said in a stream yesterday. ONI has devolved into a deca-pico-management game. That's micromanagement taken to the 10^-11th power. I feared that it would turn into simfarm style game at some point, and as I see it, it has unfortunately.

[watermelen671]

42 minutes ago, Arash70 said:

It won't be done until it's polished for thousands of hours by the hands of Master Yogurtson (aka @Cheerio)

And is wielded by the Ultimate Ninja Master, Nin@JoeW.

Spoiler

Also, I think OP could've made the title a bit less inflammatory. It's no wonder people might "attack" them, OP finna be blowing on the embers, and expecting a fire to not happen. Just sayin'.