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Maxwell chopping vs Woodie chopping


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23 hours ago, Toros said:

I think your reasoning is very much in line with what the devs feel, and I disagree with both you and the devs for similar reasons when it comes to character balance.

The problem with any character focused around chopping trees is that eventually bearger and pigman minions can drastically outpace any advantage Woodie might have in that arena, and even in singleplayer Woodie's werebeaver form despite massive advantages in combat paled in comparison with actual combat focused characters with mid-high range equipment (log suit, tentacle spike is not very impressive and while singleplayer werebeaver doesn't have to worry about sanity, it's never been a hard resource to manage).

For what it's worth, I think you'll be "right" about the changes they'll (not) make to Woodie, but a lot about their character design decisions are poorly done for a multiplayer environment.  Woodie and Willow being faithful ports of their singleplayer versions would've been better than what we have currently, and if you're going to give lucy porting to Woodie's hand, it would make sense to have Willow do the same thing.

P.s. you don't need to eat wood as Woodie ever in dst.  You can use Werebeaver to refresh the meter.

The other thing worth considering is that Woodie is wildly unpopular as a character.  His skins are some of the cheapest of any of the characters and he's one of the most rare to see.  Some characters are popular despite mechanical weaknesses (Willow, Wilson, Wes), some are unpopular despite mechanical strengths (Wolfgang) but Woodie is neither popular nor powerful.  Design wise I feel that mechanics that are either obselete or largely ignored should either be removed or made more competitive with other options.  Woodie is the character equivalent of the bat bat.

I couldn't agree more to pretty much everything here.

You mentioned Woodie being outmatched by pigmen in the late game. Obviously bearger does an even better job but that only comes around once an in-game year. So on the topic of pigmen Woodie would have an advantage due to bonus follower time but that dosen't make Woodie any better because A: unless the entire place is well lit the pigs will panic and not do their jobs for the extra time you have since it will most likely be night/dusk at some point and B: If you go beaver mode on all the trees the pigs stop what their doing and just stare at you. 

If the pigs would actually do their job while you're going beaver and not require constant light to do their jobs at least during dusk then the bonus time perk might actually be useful for something and noteworthy in some way. It's a change that would probably make Woodie at least a little more worthwhile and on top of that I could maybe use it more than twice in nearly 500 hours playing Woodie.

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@Mr Pig unfortunately Woodie’s loyalty bonus with pigs currently gives him half a day more *maximum* loyalty time.  He can befriend them for 3 days instead of 2.5 days. He only gets a bonus per item for bunnymen and rock lobsters. That’s pretty much going to be useless for everyone, though it’s not that hard to feed them anyway.

 

I wrote a Woodie rework that made numerous changes and I had gameplay reasons for them.

1) Woodie no longer loses wood meter while human, so he doesn’t passively waste logs over time.  Minor but leaves his minor perks in human form.  Grass gives -5 wood meter as his examine says he’s allergic, and lets him drain it at will without trees.  More control but costs more resources.

2) Werebeaver has better gnawing (digging and mining is the same as tools, chopping is also slightly better) but loses  1 log meter per gnaw instead of gaining it.  Makes him a more effective harvester but requires wood to function.

3) No extra sanity drain from werebeaver, logsuit/tentacle spike defense/offense (like singleplayer) and damage taken from log meter first.  However, his log meter also drains at the same speed hunger normally does, and unlike singleplayer he doesn’t change back at 0, so he needs to eat logs to become human. This makes his werebeaver form ok at combat and able to take and recover damage easily, but again costs logs to run and it’s harder to change back to human form.

 

The purpose of all of this is to make Werebeaver able to provide better and sustained harvesting as well as decent combat, but all of it costs logs to run.  Early on it’s an ok combat form that quickly becomes inferior to gear though exploring is effective.  Later it’s a wood powered omni-harvester and he retains his minor human form perks.

I don’t think it’s necessarily the best route but the flow is much better than vanilla.  Werebeaver is useful for certain things (combat, exploration, harvesting) but requires an ally or human form for others (best combat, picking things up, crafting).

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