Klei Should Have a Character Update

[ShadowDuelist]

I strongly agree that the less popular/less fun characters should be buffed, and the currently "good ones" don't really need a nerf. I mean I really don't feel there is a character that really breaks the game to the point it becomes boring or "too easy". EG: If you play wicker in a long lived world past mid game you'll notice the book usage is gradually reduced to the point where you stand without advantages over a Wilson. Also wickerbottoms perks in a team don't really stack: If you want more than one player to be able to read its still better to have a maxwell. And the same goes for WX or Wolfgang: they are strong fun characters but there always comes a point where you DO notice their weaknesses, having to work double to obtain X thing.

TL;DR: no nerfing, only buffing the (generally agreed upon being the) boring ones.

[Mikeadatrix]

22 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

IMO not being able to sleep is kind of a huge thing, specially in the caves.. and cuz u are completely left out from the winter event

 

22 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

EG: If you play wicker in a long lived world past mid game you'll notice the book usage is gradually reduced to the point where you stand without advantages over a Wilson. 

Both of these really outline Wicker. Wicker is a great character but after a hundred or so days, the books become irrelevant (I mean, you could still use then but by them you probably have a ton of food and a Krampus Sack.) and the no sleeping starts to creep into play. I really love what Klei did with her as most people just gloss over the no sleep thing but like Freya said, when you can't sleep in the caves/ruins, things go from a breeze to hard mode real fast.

Relating back to my first post, characters should be well thought out and be double edged swords. Woody and Willow have way too much of a bite, Wilson has none (Like seriously he has none, hell, even 200 sanity is just silly for a reclusive loner scientist. Especially after his time on the throne.) and Winona is just... Meh. 

[MondayNight]

I would also support buffs to the 'weaker' characters, not nerfs; and that's because there is one more aspect of this whole balance dilemma often going over the head of most posters in these threads - and that is the skill of majority of DST players. Do you remember when Forge stats came and the general global Win Ratio, for example, was under 13%? Or that just a bit above 9% of Forge-playing base got Solo Survivor?! (and a mere 2.9% the Survival of the Mis-Fittest) That tells, again, something about the skil level involved in general player base, as well as the willingness to invest time in such endeavors. Yet here, on forums, most posters bragged being in that 2.9%, indicating a high level-cap for a chunk of these regular forumites. See the picture now? A very small but vocal minority that has a high skill cap demands nerfs of some characters (Wicker, Wolf, WX) because, for them, said characters indeed are easy-modes. Another aspect: most of these high skilled forumites seem to play the game mostly in solo, personal worlds (as a lot of you wrote so over time, repeatedly). Now do you see a broader picture? Go in pubs - I for one do so frequently - and see there how regular Joes and Janes (aka that vast majority of casuals) master the "Godly Trio" - hint: horridly; most pub Wolfs run in the proverbial deep dark woods wimpy, dying of hunger, and most Wickers go insane and die via shadows (will not even start with Woodies, Willows, or, oh joy, the perpetual "Player X died by Catcoon" Webbers).

Thus yeah, better buffs on the Woodie, Willow, Maxwell puppets etc.

[Sinister_Fang]

32 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

I would also support buffs to the 'weaker' characters, not nerfs; and that's because there is one more aspect of this whole balance dilemma often going over the head of most posters in these threads - and that is the skill of majority of DST players. Do you remember when Forge stats came and the general global Win Ratio, for example, was under 13%? Or that just a bit above 9% of Forge-playing base got Solo Survivor?! (and a mere 2.9% the Survival of the Mis-Fittest) That tells, again, something about the skil level involved in general player base, as well as the willingness to invest time in such endeavors. Yet here, on forums, most posters bragged being in that 2.9%, indicating a high level-cap for a chunk of these regular forumites. See the picture now? A very small but vocal minority that has a high skill cap demands nerfs of some characters (Wicker, Wolf, WX) because, for them, said characters indeed are easy-modes. Another aspect: most of these high skilled forumites seem to play the game mostly in solo, personal worlds (as a lot of you wrote so over time, repeatedly). Now do you see a broader picture? Go in pubs - I for one do so frequently - and see there how regular Joes and Janes (aka that vast majority of casuals) master the "Godly Trio" - hint: horridly; most pub Wolfs run in the proverbial deep dark woods wimpy, dying of hunger, and most Wickers go insane and die via shadows (will not even start with Woodies, Willows, or, oh joy, the perpetual "Player X died by Catcoon" Webbers).

Thus yeah, better buffs on the Woodie, Willow, Maxwell puppets etc.

Yeah, you do make a good point, but I think it's a little unfair to compare the forge and base game like that. Especially since the forge requires significantly more teamwork, planning and strategy then the base game.

[Lakurius]

Hm. Maybe nerfing the good characters really isn't a good idea. I understand now...

(I'm new to the dst forum, don't flame me please)

[MondayNight]

50 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Yeah, you do make a good point, but I think it's a little unfair to compare the forge and base game like that. Especially since the forge requires significantly more teamwork, planning and strategy then the base game.

Regarding Forge and learning it I would actually say players were forced into getting the gigs of it quickly (who does what and when) for teams to actually function properly, and were hard pressed into doing so (or into quitting, some did exactly that). True, Forge ran for a limited, small time-frame, thus how above numbers translate into main game is debatable. I for one, from what I've seen in pubs and my friends activity over time (many of them quit DST) plus what I've read, think there isn't a big difference: probably around 5-10% of all player base are highly skilled (can survive indefinitely, know and apply multiple farming techniques, know how to kite all mobs, killed all giants - raid ones included - in various ways, also using them for further farming, know and apply quirks of the game mechanics etc). But player-base majority is at first autumn level of survival struggle, being done in by hunger, spiders and shadows; and for those Wicker, Wolf or WX are mostly about cons.

[Toros]

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I strongly agree that the less popular/less fun characters should be buffed, and the currently "good ones" don't really need a nerf. I mean I really don't feel there is a character that really breaks the game to the point it becomes boring or "too easy". EG: If you play wicker in a long lived world past mid game you'll notice the book usage is gradually reduced to the point where you stand without advantages over a Wilson. Also wickerbottoms perks in a team don't really stack: If you want more than one player to be able to read its still better to have a maxwell. And the same goes for WX or Wolfgang: they are strong fun characters but there always comes a point where you DO notice their weaknesses, having to work double to obtain X thing.

TL;DR: no nerfing, only buffing the (generally agreed upon being the) boring ones.

I’m not directing this purely at you, but honestly I’m pretty sure anyone with the opinion that the top three (Wx, Wolf, Wicker) don’t need a nerf doesn’t understand their mechanics or how incredibly powerful they are compared to anyone else.  What exactly do you need to work hard for with Wx?  His stats start out slightly below average and after 3 gears is already ahead of most characters, and gears can easily be obtained from tumbleweeds.

Wolfgang similarly is well above average at the start, and gets better and easier until you reach the stage food is abundant and he functionally has no downside at all.

@FreyaMaluk sleeping starts out bad and gets worse the later the game goes, and lategame sleeping in the caves is absurd.  A tam completely stops sanity drain even on Wolfgang and there are green and blue mushrooms everywhere.  

You would need to massively buff all the other characters *and* remove their downsides to have anyone that isn’t Wx/Wicker/Wolfgang be remotely competitive mechanically.

[MondayNight]

2 hours ago, Toros said:

..I’m pretty sure anyone with the opinion that the top three (Wx, Wolf, Wicker) don’t need a nerf doesn’t understand their mechanics or how incredibly powerful they are..

 

 

First of, if it were just by the numbers of character' specifics, pure mechanical power as you like to call it, yes, those 3 are better than anyone else. Not "incredibly powerful", that's an exaggeration (better left for those Musha-and-OnePunch-Man trelelel characters out there in Workshop). Yet, as others pointed out, roughly by the start of summer, Wicker books are not that important anymore (food is overabundant if one did Spider/Bunnymen farms and/or Bee Boxes, plus Krampus farming and Bee Queen slaying should have already occurred if we're talking efficiency of highly skilled players), rendering them optionally contextual; Wolf did the boss-battles, got his useful personal loot; WX ransacked Ruins (1% from tumbleweeds is not realistic for full or even partial upgrade) and is 400 hp, but a blunt character nonetheless (damage sponge? Sure! Try fire for spicing things up). Now look, if you may, at character choices on servers, random pubs: if these 3 characters are so "incredibly powerful" with negligible downsides, why aren't those servers full of just Wickers, Wolfs, and WXs? Rhetorically, because for vast majority of casual players their cons are kinda big deal. Would be interesting if Klei released some stats regarding regular DST character picks, and what accomplishments were made with said characters (at least for the official, default vanilla servers), actual hard numbers in the vain of Forge - that would provide a clearer picture useful on the balance front.. and in these discussions.

 

Secondly, as we have the Wes character with the purpose of being a challenge for highly skilled players, have you ever considered Wicker, Wolf, and WX might be intentionally characters "more powerful than the rest" aimed at medium players (or anyone proverbially "loving a big gun" for that matter) to have fun and feel OP after successfully navigating their cons?!

 

Lastly, if we were to factorize PVP, then is another story; one I frankly don't care about as I play this game for its "together" concept. Yet, objectively, in PVP those 3 would need nerfs (and the rest buffs) for the gameplay to be justly competitive.

[JustinMark309]

8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Could you elaborate? How exactly did I "fail"?

What friends lol

Meat effs are kinda trash to be Wilson's ability... Idk

[Kolascay]

I wish they just kept them the way they were from regular DS. 

Willow's lighter was nerfed because people were using her as a troll and burning down bases. But here's the thing;

If she still has the lighter. She can still burn down the base. And litterally everyone else can craft a torch.

I wish she still had fire immunity, too.

And ummm... Woodie.

Old wearbeaver, please. And... what is up with the "Celebrates Thanksgiving Early" stat? It was added in DST and I still have no idea what it does.

 

Don't buff the characters. Just revert them.

And I want the dark sword and gem for maxwell again plz I want to be able to kill deerclops on day 1 again c'mon just let me have some fun

[SandvichSpy]

30 minutes ago, Master Jand said:

Old wearbeaver, please. And... what is up with the "Celebrates Thanksgiving Early" stat? It was added in DST and I still have no idea what it does.

It grants him a bonus to loyalty when he recruits certain followers, pigs, bunnies and lobster I believe.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, Master Jand said:

I wish they just kept them the way they were from regular DS. 

Willow's lighter was nerfed because people were using her as a troll and burning down bases. But here's the thing;

If she still has the lighter. She can still burn down the base. And litterally everyone else can craft a torch.

I wish she still had fire immunity, too.

And ummm... Woodie.

Old wearbeaver, please. And... what is up with the "Celebrates Thanksgiving Early" stat? It was added in DST and I still have no idea what it does.

 

Don't buff the characters. Just revert them.

And I want the dark sword and gem for maxwell again plz I want to be able to kill deerclops on day 1 again c'mon just let me have some fun

I actually prefer DST Maxwell over DS though. His sanity regen isn't at such an extreme that it makes fuel farming difficult, and he has better shadow puppet mechanics.

[JustinMark309]

Someone wrote Willow should be able to put out fire at the cost of sanity... Which makes sense as a character plus alot of time I already be seeing Willow as the person that stay at base... So she could be a MAJOR help in summer... Plus trolls can still troll people without destorying stuff by setting someone base on fire then putting it out lol

[FreyaMaluk]

7 hours ago, Toros said:

 

@FreyaMaluk sleeping starts out bad and gets worse the later the game goes, and lategame sleeping in the caves is absurd.  A tam completely stops sanity drain even on Wolfgang and there are green and blue mushrooms everywhere.  

dude... sleeping means not ONLY sanity.. it's also health restoration... ik how the game works (1500+ hours here).. but having extra ways to restore both sanity and health while sleeping it's actually super good... if u don't utilize it.. that's just decision.. but don't undermine the immense power sleeping has in the game. cuz with wicker u need extra ways and extra inventory slots in your inventory what a sleeping tends and a bunch of meatballs can do for the rest of the characters.

[Toros]

11 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

 

First of, if it were just by the numbers of character' specifics, pure mechanical power as you like to call it, yes, those 3 are better than anyone else. Not "incredibly powerful", that's an exaggeration (better left for those Musha-and-OnePunch-Man trelelel characters out there in Workshop). Yet, as others pointed out, roughly by the start of summer, Wicker books are not that important anymore (food is overabundant if one did Spider/Bunnymen farms and/or Bee Boxes, plus Krampus farming and Bee Queen slaying should have already occurred if we're talking efficiency of highly skilled players), rendering them optionally contextual; Wolf did the boss-battles, got his useful personal loot; WX ransacked Ruins (1% from tumbleweeds is not realistic for full or even partial upgrade) and is 400 hp, but a blunt character nonetheless (damage sponge? Sure! Try fire for spicing things up). Now look, if you may, at character choices on servers, random pubs: if these 3 characters are so "incredibly powerful" with negligible downsides, why aren't those servers full of just Wickers, Wolfs, and WXs? Rhetorically, because for vast majority of casual players their cons are kinda big deal. Would be interesting if Klei released some stats regarding regular DST character picks, and what accomplishments were made with said characters (at least for the official, default vanilla servers), actual hard numbers in the vain of Forge - that would provide a clearer picture useful on the balance front.. and in these discussions.

 

Secondly, as we have the Wes character with the purpose of being a challenge for highly skilled players, have you ever considered Wicker, Wolf, and WX might be intentionally characters "more powerful than the rest" aimed at medium players (or anyone proverbially "loving a big gun" for that matter) to have fun and feel OP after successfully navigating their cons?!

 

Lastly, if we were to factorize PVP, then is another story; one I frankly don't care about as I play this game for its "together" concept. Yet, objectively, in PVP those 3 would need nerfs (and the rest buffs) for the gameplay to be justly competitive.

There are so many ridiculous assumptions and just piss poor understanding of both the game and frankly statistics in this post that for us to have a productive conversation would require me to fill the gaps your high school didn’t.

Instead I’ll address some of the nonsense.

1) Gears from tumbleweeds are 1% rolled 3 times.  On average you’ll get a gear every 33 tumbleweeds in addition to grass, sticks, and trinkets.  It is entirely possible to upgrade purely through tumbleweeds.

2) Character preference has little to do with mechanical balance and barely anything to do with the character mechanics.  If that was the case, Wilson would be the least popular because he is weak and his perk is as fun as watching paint dry and is literally slower.  To even consider that polling random public servers (many of which reset before reaching winter many times per day) would provide relevant data shows how ill-equipped you are to even consider the question.

3) Klei has demonstrated they are unwilling to balance the characters and they’re 1/3 on the characters they’ve changed for DST.  Maxwell was a good change, but both Willow and Woodie are dramatically worse and it’s unclear the benefit of beating them with the nerf bat.  Your assumption that they were made as easymode characters for singleplayer would be valid, but for DST the quality of the changes made were questionable and Wx was actually buffed.

9 hours ago, SandvichSpy said:

It grants him a bonus to loyalty when he recruits certain followers, pigs, bunnies and lobster I believe.

No, it’s a reference to him being canadian.  He also has a “polite” tag that allows 3 (vs 2.5) maximum days of loyalty from a pig follower, and gains 50% more time from each carrot or mineral given to bunnymen and rock lobsters.  For practical purposes this almost never is noticeable.

6 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

dude... sleeping means not ONLY sanity.. it's also health restoration... ik how the game works (1500+ hours here).. but having extra ways to restore both sanity and health while sleeping it's actually super good... if u don't utilize it.. that's just decision.. but don't undermine the immense power sleeping has in the game. cuz with wicker u need extra ways and extra inventory slots in your inventory what a sleeping tends and a bunch of meatballs can do for the rest of the characters.

First off, you’re assuming that time spent equals competence which definitely is not the case.  Food can easily replace sleeping entirely for a moderately skilled player who should transition away from meatballs as the game progresses.  Butterfly wings, pierogi, mushrooms, cactus flesh can restore health and sanity and are easily obtained without wasting time sleeping. Wickerbottom doesn’t require sanity to use her books and given how easy shadow creatures are to fight and the utility of nightmare fuel she should be worrying about sanity and sleeping exactly as much as other characters.

“Don’t underestimate the immense power sleeping has in this game” has some real meme potential, but as practical advice it’s false at every skill level.

[Starlogy]

15 hours ago, Toros said:

@FreyaMaluk sleeping starts out bad and gets worse the later the game goes, and lategame sleeping in the caves is absurd.  A tam completely stops sanity drain even on Wolfgang and there are green and blue mushrooms everywhere

I'd have to disagree, I use Tents whenever I get finished fighting Deerclops, as the Tam doesn't restore sanity fast enough and I seem to never be able to keep Jerky on me.

+ The Tent is useful as it's basically a safezone, so as long as you have food, it's good to gain your wits for a second.

But I also can't lie, I rarely ever sleep to begin with. Simply put, Deerclops is the one situation I find Tents useful for.

[FreyaMaluk]

3 hours ago, Toros said:

First off, you’re assuming that time spent equals competence which definitely is not the case.  Food can easily replace sleeping entirely for a moderately skilled player who should transition away from meatballs as the game progresses.  Butterfly wings, pierogi, mushrooms, cactus flesh can restore health and sanity and are easily obtained without wasting time sleeping. Wickerbottom doesn’t require sanity to use her books and given how easy shadow creatures are to fight and the utility of nightmare fuel she should be worrying about sanity and sleeping exactly as much as other characters.

“Don’t underestimate the immense power sleeping has in this game” has some real meme potential, but as practical advice it’s false at every skill level.

xD

I'm not assuming anything.. u said sleeping it's not important.. and not that useful and I disagree. Ik the many ways u can recover sanity and health.. but as I mentioned before.. and as u actually forgot to mention in your reply.. all this implies u need more inventory space... while u can just have a bunch of meatballs and a sleeping tent precrafted and have a sanity-health recovery pause in your ruins exploration with the same food u use for hunger. one inventory space. while Wicker needs at least other extra slot/s for having other food or in bundling wraps.

again.. u do seem to undermine how good sleep can be cuz u don't do it.. but don't just negate basic good core mechanics that any "moderately skilled player" knows and uses.

and I don't think being insane all the time should be a must late game strat for nightmare fuel. As a matter of fact, I consider this strat noob late game, when u can farm splumonkeys for that and more. No need to waste time killing one shadow creature at the time when u can have tons of that at the end of one single nightmare phase + food + poop + hair.

and if u wanna meme that phrase.. go ahead... xD.. idc people trying to prove a point when tents are no doubt useful craftables for health and sanity restoratiion. Besides.. for all the other items Wicker needs to use to restore health and sanity, she actually needs to spend more time gathering all those resources, while normal food and tends are way more convinient for the same result.

U seem to count only times she spends on the surface.. but also in the caves tents are a really nice thing to have. and by killing some spiders for meat + lichen + sleep u can really get things done, while she needs to bring extra resouces or have a considerably large bunnymen/pig farm for jerkey or other items like honey, etc. It's more time in the kitchen, less time exploring.. and that's a fact.

and I used "meatballs" as an example of a the most basic food recipe that combined with sleep has an amazing result. But talking about "asumming" u think this is the only recipe ik... xD.. who is assuming now?

[MondayNight]

2 hours ago, Toros said:

There are so many ridiculous assumptions and just piss poor understanding of both the game and frankly statistics in this post that for us to have a productive conversation would require me to fill the gaps your high school didn’t.

Instead I’ll address some of the nonsense.

1) Gears from tumbleweeds are 1% rolled 3 times.  On average you’ll get a gear every 33 tumbleweeds in addition to grass, sticks, and trinkets.  It is entirely possible to upgrade purely through tumbleweeds.

2) Character preference has little to do with mechanical balance and barely anything to do with the character mechanics.  If that was the case, Wilson would be the least popular because he is weak and his perk is as fun as watching paint dry and is literally slower.  To even consider that polling random public servers (many of which reset before reaching winter many times per day) would provide relevant data shows how ill-equipped you are to even consider the question.

3) Klei has demonstrated they are unwilling to balance the characters and they’re 1/3 on the characters they’ve changed for DST.  Maxwell was a good change, but both Willow and Woodie are dramatically worse and it’s unclear the benefit of beating them with the nerf bat.  Your assumption that they were made as easymode characters for singleplayer would be valid, but for DST the quality of the changes made were questionable and Wx was actually buffed.

 

It's interesting how you wind most of your replies into relative insults to other posters, almost as if you have a complex or/and a good level of passive aggressiveness (plus those exaggerations, mmmm-MMMM!). Anyway:

1. Indeed there is that 1 in 33 Tumbleweeds guaranteed gear; and of course is possible, 3% possible to get fully upgraded via Tumbleweeds. Would you sit in desert and pick 500 Tumbleweeds to do that? (rhetorically dependent on tumbleweed spawns number and spawn frequency) How many players have you seen doing that, aka WXs farming Tumbleweeds for full upgrade? I for one never once encountered a player doing so on short-living servers (survival pubs - no one had the patience or willingness) or long-runs (dedicated endless - very inefficient, you could reset ruins and have fun killing newly-spawned Damaged Clockworks, getting a lot more gears for same amount of time invested in both activities). Again a stats sheet for this would prove its feasibility, realistically.

2. I've exemplified the official Klei pubs because:
   a. I don't know if Klei can pull data from personal and non-official dedicated servers, as I have 0 programming knowledge, aka I have no idea how data collection is made from a technical standpoint;
   b. there are a lot of mods used in personal and non-official dedicated servers that completely negate character cons (turf giving sanity, hp staff and bottles etc just to name a few) or even complete character rework, thus beginner-intermediate players having a hard time managing the negatives of Wolf or Wicker in vanilla would now have no problems with them, thus picking Wicker/Wolf/WX more often compared to a vanilla setup.
On the other hand if Klei can pull data out of all existing (personal and dedicated alike) servers, and can distinguish between modded and non-modded servers (disregarding from the get-go data from mentioned modded ones, with items that give sanity and hp at a trivial cost - example: sanity turf), then of course you would go for a larger sample pool (also compartmentalized). Frankly, I am as well a bit baffled - non ironically - you didn't consider these aspects when throwing your gratuitous "how ill-equipped you are".

3. To me it seems Klei really didn't put their minds into a good rebalance of characters for multiplayer, as well as not giving enough thoughts and work to WorldGen and world customization (among other things) - for instance you cannot even make a Cave-only server although spawn Portal exists in all generated caves (a sign said feature was planned at some point); in total a lot of content seems partially finished/unpolished. Maybe they rushed some things and then left them as they were just on the premise it isn't harmful for the general experience, at least not in significant ways. And I would want to see that corrected. In the end, though I don't support nerfs, wouldn't be too against it if they occurred.

 

Cheers and keep your ...friendliness and light-hearted side as bright as always!

[Toros]

7 hours ago, Starlogy said:

I'd have to disagree, I use Tents whenever I get finished fighting Deerclops, as the Tam doesn't restore sanity fast enough and I seem to never be able to keep Jerky on me.

+ The Tent is useful as it's basically a safezone, so as long as you have food, it's good to gain your wits for a second.

But I also can't lie, I rarely ever sleep to begin with. Simply put, Deerclops is the one situation I find Tents useful for.

Instead of a tent you could gather some cactus flesh (which is unaffected by winter unlike other plants) and cook it for 15 sanity each.  Tents are like farms.  They function but there are more efficient ways to accomplish the same tasks.

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

xD

I'm not assuming anything.. u said sleeping it's not important.. and not that useful and I disagree. Ik the many ways u can recover sanity and health.. but as I mentioned before.. and as u actually forgot to mention in your reply.. all this implies u need more inventory space... while u can just have a bunch of meatballs and a sleeping tent precrafted and have a sanity-health recovery pause in your ruins exploration with the same food u use for hunger. one inventory space. while Wicker needs at least other extra slot/s for having other food or in bundling wraps.

again.. u do seem to undermine how good sleep can be cuz u don't do it.. but don't just negate basic good core mechanics that any "moderately skilled player" knows and uses.

and I don't think being insane all the time should be a must late game strat for nightmare fuel. As a matter of fact, I consider this strat noob late game, when u can farm splumonkeys for that and more. No need to waste time killing one shadow creature at the time when u can have tons of that at the end of one single nightmare phase + food + poop + hair.

and if u wanna meme that phrase.. go ahead... xD.. idc people trying to prove a point when tents are no doubt useful craftables for health and sanity restoratiion. Besides.. for all the other items Wicker needs to use to restore health and sanity, she actually needs to spend more time gathering all those resources, while normal food and tends are way more convinient for the same result.

U seem to count only times she spends on the surface.. but also in the caves tents are a really nice thing to have. and by killing some spiders for meat + lichen + sleep u can really get things done, while she needs to bring extra resouces or have a considerably large bunnymen/pig farm for jerkey or other items like honey, etc. It's more time in the kitchen, less time exploring.. and that's a fact.

and I used "meatballs" as an example of a the most basic food recipe that combined with sleep has an amazing result. But talking about "asumming" u think this is the only recipe ik... xD.. who is assuming now?

I understand english is not your first language but this post is a mess and makes it difficult to take you seriously.  I can assure you that sleeping is not something advanced players do.  Not only does sleeping mean you can't use that part of the night in a functional way, you'll have to spend time getting extra food.  It's much faster and easier to just get or have food that restores health and sanity to begin with.

4 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

 

It's interesting how you wind most of your replies into relative insults to other posters, almost as if you have a complex or/and a good level of passive aggressiveness (plus those exaggerations, mmmm-MMMM!). Anyway:

1. Indeed there is that 1 in 33 Tumbleweeds guaranteed gear; and of course is possible, 3% possible to get fully upgraded via Tumbleweeds. Would you sit in desert and pick 500 Tumbleweeds to do that? (rhetorically dependent on tumbleweed spawns number and spawn frequency) How many players have you seen doing that, aka WXs farming Tumbleweeds for full upgrade? I for one never once encountered a player doing so on short-living servers (survival pubs - no one had the patience or willingness) or long-runs (dedicated endless - very inefficient, you could reset ruins and have fun killing newly-spawned Damaged Clockworks, getting a lot more gears for same amount of time invested in both activities). Again a stats sheet for this would prove its feasibility, realistically.

2. I've exemplified the official Klei pubs because:
   a. I don't know if Klei can pull data from personal and non-official dedicated servers, as I have 0 programming knowledge, aka I have no idea how data collection is made from a technical standpoint;
   b. there are a lot of mods used in personal and non-official dedicated servers that completely negate character cons (turf giving sanity, hp staff and bottles etc just to name a few) or even complete character rework, thus beginner-intermediate players having a hard time managing the negatives of Wolf or Wicker in vanilla would now have no problems with them, thus picking Wicker/Wolf/WX more often compared to a vanilla setup.
On the other hand if Klei can pull data out of all existing (personal and dedicated alike) servers, and can distinguish between modded and non-modded servers (disregarding from the get-go data from mentioned modded ones, with items that give sanity and hp at a trivial cost - example: sanity turf), then of course you would go for a larger sample pool (also compartmentalized). Frankly, I am as well a bit baffled - non ironically - you didn't consider these aspects when throwing your gratuitous "how ill-equipped you are".

3. To me it seems Klei really didn't put their minds into a good rebalance of characters for multiplayer, as well as not giving enough thoughts and work to WorldGen and world customization (among other things) - for instance you cannot even make a Cave-only server although spawn Portal exists in all generated caves (a sign said feature was planned at some point); in total a lot of content seems partially finished/unpolished. Maybe they rushed some things and then left them as they were just on the premise it isn't harmful for the general experience, at least not in significant ways. And I would want to see that corrected. In the end, though I don't support nerfs, wouldn't be too against it if they occurred.

 

Cheers and keep your ...friendliness and light-hearted side as bright as always!

I assure you that I've treated you with all the respect your wit has earned.

1) It's truly shocking that someone wouldn't get gears from tumbleweeds on a server that will reset in less than 3 hours.  Shocking.  Also, there's absolutely no way to play this game other than experiencing fall over and over again by playing pubs.  Winter OP.

2) The fundamental mistake of course is that you think there's a correlation between character choice and mechanical strength.  Despite it being absolutely possible for Klei to have clients send them data about character choice, without a relationship between the two it's meaningless.

3) You can make cave only dedicated servers.

[Starlogy]

53 minutes ago, Toros said:

Instead of a tent you could gather some cactus flesh (which is unaffected by winter unlike other plants) and cook it for 15 sanity each.  Tents are like farms.  They function but there are more efficient ways to accomplish the same tasks.

unfortunately the ginger girl refuses to eat cactus

[JoeW]

We can have discussions about things without personal attacks and turning a discussion about characters in a video game into a heated argument. If you cannot post in a constructive and polite way, please move on. Thanks. 

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/guidelines/

[GuyNamedChris]

What I really wanna see changed in the characters that need it? Hoo boy, here goes:

Willow: Fire immunity

I get the original reason for the change was an anti-griefing measure, but it's proven since that many other characters do the same thing, so it'd be nice to see this change reverted in an update. The extra 5 seconds of resistance is often forgotten by many players just because of how... miniscule? it is. Immunity would allow Willow to do a few more things in DST, such as safely cook stuff on lava pits, and heat herself up more safely while insane.

Woodie: Buff the beaver; Lower his sanity drain a bit, let wood-eating heal him, and boost his damage

I feel like going beaver makes you feel like you're being rushed to get what you have to get done in a race against insanity. Sure, you can easily get it back by planting pinecones, but that's only after you leave beaver mode before you dip into insanity. After you do go insane though, most people feel pretty helpless, because 1, you don't have a reliable means of defending yourself (Beaver only does axe damage, with boosted dmg. against wood based mobs.), and 2, you can't heal while you're in beaver mode. That's why I would like to see the beaver become a bit more self-sustainable.

Maxwell: Give him more control over his puppets (Puppets follow Maxwell's actions)

Puppets should be puppets, you should be able to tell them when to stop before they put John Henry to shame. Also, they don't even do the unlockable dances or caroling, what gives? I think Maxwell's puppets should only do as Maxwell says: If Maxwell chops a tree, the logger will follow suit until that one tree is felled, rather than commit mass-tree genocide whenever he feels like it, cutting down your tier 1 evergreens yielding 1 log. Same goes with every other puppet, especially Duelists. Replicating the player's own attack/dodge tactics would make Duelists way more than worth using, cause if they die, you only have yourself to blame on your shoddy kiting skills, and not their normal follower AI that normally becomes their grave. So in a way this would be a nerf/buff to Maxwell, cause Maxwell players would actually have to put in the effort of commanding their puppets what to do instead of lazing around, margaritas-in-hand. (Also this indirectly buffs Woodie, making him a more reliable wood-collector compared to the tree-demons.)

Winona: Let Tape repair armor and tools (excluding magic)

This would give Winona diversity from the rest of the cast with her TV commercial Wonder-Repair-Tape(TM)! Repairing anything other than clothing has never been a thing in DS, so this would make her a reliable, if not essential part of a normal team. Of course, an item that repairs essentially anything (logically, so no torches, night armor/swords, staves, etc.) with durability needs balance where balance is due, but if done right, will make Winona one of the mainstream-used characters rather than sitting on the bottom of the barrel. 

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, Starlogy said:

unfortunately the ginger girl refuses to eat cactus

dude... that's not at all true... I'm not refusing anything... I'm just saying we shouldn't trivialize the benefits of sleeping in the game.  

6 hours ago, Toros said:

I can assure you that sleeping is not something advanced players do.  Not only does sleeping mean you can't use that part of the night in a functional way, you'll have to spend time getting extra food.  It's much faster and easier to just get or have food that restores health and sanity to begin with.

if u have a 8 croc pot set up, it's just fundamentally false it takes u more time to make 8 regular food + sleep, than the time u need to spend gathering cacti + cooking it (specially when u cannot cook in bulk), cooking Taffy, etc. moreover, u need to manage the inventory space for extra items. the only thing I'm trying to say is u shouldn't undermine sleeping as a downside cuz it is in fact something useful.

[Toros]

47 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

dude... that's not at all true... I'm not refusing anything... I'm just saying we shouldn't trivialize the benefits of sleeping in the game.  

if u have a 8 croc pot set up, it's just fundamentally false it takes u more time to make 8 regular food + sleep, than the time u need to spend gathering cacti + cooking it (specially when u cannot cook in bulk), cooking Taffy, etc. moreover, u need to manage the inventory space for extra items. the only thing I'm trying to say is u shouldn't undermine sleeping as a downside cuz it is in fact something useful.

@Starlogy was talking about Wigfrid and I regularly play without using a backpack.  You really don't need that many inventory slots available at any given time.

[JustinMark309]

A Warrior Spider...