Klei Should Have a Character Update

[Mario384]

For quite some time, people have talked about the current state of characters, whether the focus is "fun" or balance.  Despite getting Winona, we haven't really seen any updates to the playable characters... at all, actually.  People have been pretty vocal about some characters (Willow and Woodie, recently joined by Winona) not bringing a lot to the table, while others overlap in their style of play and purpose (Wolfgang and Wigifrid, Woodie and Maxwell) to a survival team overall.

So, I feel that perhaps Klei should have a little fireside chat about the current state of the characters in terms of how they play and how fun they are, get some community feedback, and make some changes.  I've been pretty vocal about changing the werebeaver, and a lot of people have spoken up for Willow and her case, so I feel it's something that we kinda need at this point.  After all, it's been over a year now, and I feel that we could see some of the issues people have corrected, considering it's nothing difficult to program into the game, either.  But yeah, that's my idea, thoughts?

[minespatch]

I actually made a thread on this idea but hopefully people will comment on your thread. I'd love to read what people would like to add. Otherwise we might get a facebook citation:

[ZolaRay]

i remember when i found a willow main with 3000 hours on dst...

Yeah thats a thing.

[Sinister_Fang]

*cough cough* duelist puppets *cough cough*

[. . .]

In the next character update Wes needs to be nerfed cuz he is too op

[axxel]

Maybe all characters should get more action abilities instead relying on passiv perks, items or transformations. Some  perks whose appeared in The Forge could be applied to the Survival game, too. Otherwise the devs might had think that characters should be played similar to the other ones and not relying too much on others and there is no explicit definition of "classes" like healer, warrior etc. like the Forge. However I admit that this idea, in conjunction with team play, should expand on the current set of characters but about their associations and professions.

Wilson could be about healing or buffing like having a bonus on healing if using items (healing salve, telltale heart) or food on others or make potions for a timed stat increase . Willow protects her team mates and their structures from dangerous fire through extinguishing with her bare hands while losing sanity (not just the smoldering) and boosts the level of nearby camp fires upon lit and ignores the wetness of fuel. 

These are simple ideas how Wilson and Willow can be expanded with small changes with useful effects, which are also remain useful in late game.

[Remps]

i loved dart mechanic in forge i hope they will buff darts and purple staff or just more durability or cheap :')

[Dekay]

Speaking of darts, I’d like to see something like a ranged weapon that could be refueled with bee stingers. At last those pesky pollutants will be useful.

[minespatch]

5 hours ago, Dekay said:

Speaking of darts, I’d like to see something like a ranged weapon that could be refueled with bee stingers. At last those pesky pollutants will be useful.

They could bring back flaregun from the unreleased pyro ?

8 hours ago, axxel said:

Wilson could be about healing or buffing like having a bonus on healing if using items (healing salve, telltale heart) or food on others or make potions for a timed stat increase . Willow protects her team mates and their structures from dangerous fire through extinguishing with her bare hands while losing sanity (not just the smoldering) and boosts the level of nearby camp fires upon lit and ignores the wetness of fuel.

Kind of torn over Wickerbottom or Wilson being the healer. Though if Wilson was the healer, we could get some more lore on his background just like how @A7XSparx theorized in her comic:

[axxel]

Excerp from the German instruction booklet:

"Allow me to introduce, my name is Wilson

I'm a scientist par excellence, I'm also British. Needless to say, I'm a gentleman, too. I describe myself as ambitious -some soi-disant colleagues called me quirky. About those bold improprieties, I could only indignantly lifted my eyebrow - genuises like me are likely misunderstood."

Further, he described the new world as "dream of every scientist" but he never used "professor" or "doctor", he's like some old schoolar who research everything -from physics to biology, from astronomy to anatomy. We can assume that Wilson was interested in some unorthodox branches of science, like magic or explosives :). But I think he has some medical knowledge if he blew himself up with something. So he is the best choice of being a doctor.

[ZolaRay]

i Would like if klei made a big update changing a lot of items and characters so theres reasons to use them, because for example, winter comes get beef hat and thermal stone, but what about all the other items for winter that ive never seen someone use?, same for summer, get the eyebrella and a thermal  stone, if not probably a summer vest, out of that theres more items that no one uses, and for characters i would like if they make characters more useful, like fix maxwell´s duelists, or buff characters from low tiers, i would prefer an update with all of those changes instead of content tbh

[ShadowDuelist]

4 hours ago, minespatch said:

Though if Wilson was the healer, we could get some more lore on his background just like how @A7XSparx theorized in her comic:

I actually liked that thing of Wilson being able to revive better, I think it would be an okay addition that Wilson could revive dead players like if he had a telltaleheart, but without one, through his "weird science" knowledge. Perhaps by losing a lot of sanity instead of gaining it, and also losing the 40 HP he gives to the revived player. It would make the game more newbie friendly too. -I can feel your anger growing Wilson purists, come, come into the dark side, strike me with all your hate-

There are many things I feel the forge could add to the basic game, EG: The staves shooting animation of the forge, currently the fire/ice staff has no animation other than moving it around and the target getting on fire/chilled. A projectile of sorts would make it look better, and a secondary attack from these staves (stronger, consuming much more durability) would also be a cool addition.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

While I agree the Woody, Willow and Winona need a rework, I don't think any of the other characters should be touched. They are perfect as they are. There's no issues with them.

I rather they focused on making new characters instead of just adding more random crap to existing characters. 

[GMDApple]

11 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

While I agree the Woody, Willow and Winona need a rework, I don't think any of the other characters should be touched. They are perfect as they are. There's no issues with them.

Actually Wilson needs a buff. Even though he is a basic character, he should at least receive another unique trait as anyone would soon start to pick Winona over Wilson once she gets buffed/reworked.

Maybe WIlson could use some leader perk? Like people do things better around him. Obviously the perk won't stack with multiple Wilsons, but still.

Woodie needs some sort of prevention from getting into Werebeaver form, like some Wooden amulet. Also doing x3 damage to treeguards would be a neat addition as well.

Winona could tape back together a weapon to like 50%

Willow I'm not so sure.

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I rather they focused on making new characters instead of just adding more random crap to existing characters. 

This is a VERY bad idea. You never EVER want Quantity over Quality, always the reverse. Also it's not random crap to existing characters, it's fixing them.

[HamBatter]

Wilson's beard should grow based on meat foods he eats. The rate could be 150/hair, or 450/existing tier (or scaled 150*{1,2,6}).

Given normal hunger drain this should result in a full beard around Winter with the option to overeat to get it earlier. It also plays on the literals of "Don't Starve" and "Meat Effigy".

[ShadowDuelist]

2 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

While I agree the Woody, Willow and Winona need a rework, I don't think any of the other characters should be touched. They are perfect as they are. There's no issues with them.

There are some small issues, like Maxwell's Duelists not being worth making at all or Abigail's AI being too dumb (Actually I think she behaved a lot better at the forge). They are not game-breaking but improvement would help a lot (specially for Maxwell, if he ever manages to get a small extra consistent DPS through Duelists, like he did at the forge). But yeah mostly the "other characters" are fine where they are.
 

2 hours ago, GMDApple said:

Actually Wilson needs a buff. Even though he is a basic character, he should at least receive another unique trait as anyone would soon start to pick Winona over Wilson once she gets buffed/reworked.

If Winona gets improved, then I don't see why he couldn't get something else.

1 hour ago, HamBatter said:

Wilson's beard should grow based on meat foods he eats. The rate could be 150/hair, or 450/existing tier (or scaled 150*{1,2,6}).

Given normal hunger drain this should result in a full beard around Winter with the option to overeat to get it earlier. It also plays on the literals of "Don't Starve" and "Meat Effigy"

This could be an okay rework for Wilson. But even if he doesn't get any change, It would be fine I guess, He's not bad, he's the basic starting character you learn the game with, or pro-play with if you don't want to handicap yourself through Wes.

2 hours ago, GMDApple said:

Woodie needs some sort of prevention from getting into Werebeaver form, like some Wooden amulet. Also doing x3 damage to treeguards would be a neat addition as well.

I disagree, the whole avoiding the werebeaver mechanic is what damages Woodie. The werebeaver is an integral part of Woodie, and the character should focus more on embracing it strategically whilst having a penalty (the sanity drain, inability to heal, no access to the map or the inventory). The Werebeaver needs a buff to remain useful/relevant in mid/lategame: being able to use hats/helmets would work early on, and being able to get "boosted" somehow would do for later EG: Every full moon you exist outside of caves "charges" a little a special invisible meter which improves the werebeaver stats. If you exist in at least 3 full moons without dying, the beaver gets the max improved stats including cane movement speed, Battle spear damage, and increased nibbling/attack speed, unless you die and need to start the "charging" again. This combined with helmet use will allow you to have a side tool for combat, even if for whatever reason you are weaponless. Also could work as a good way to farm nightmares, and the increased attack speed could apply to mining/chopping even faster. Wearing bee queen hat could also give you the means to recharge sanity while fighting.



 

[Mr. Despair]

3 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I rather they focused on making new characters instead of just adding more random crap to existing characters. 

No, Just no.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

3 hours ago, GMDApple said:

Actually Wilson needs a buff. Even though he is a basic character, he should at least receive another unique trait as anyone would soon start to pick Winona over Wilson once she gets buffed/reworked.

I disagree. He's the vanilla character. He shouldn't have any special powers.

3 hours ago, GMDApple said:

Woodie needs some sort of prevention from getting into Werebeaver form, like some Wooden amulet. Also doing x3 damage to treeguards would be a neat addition as well.

The Werebeaver needs to be made useful again IMO.

3 hours ago, GMDApple said:

Winona could tape back together a weapon to like 50%

 

3 hours ago, GMDApple said:

Willow I'm not so sure.

Problem with Willow are two three:

- Get rid of the freezing insanity thing, because it makes no sense.

- Make her immune to fire.

- Forget about her lighter. It's worthless. You can't make it permanent, because in a multiplayer environment that gets abused to hell and results in no one ever having to make a Torch ever again.

3 hours ago, GMDApple said:

This is a VERY bad idea. You never EVER want Quantity over Quality, always the reverse. Also it's not random crap to existing characters, it's fixing them.

*Looks at this comment...Looks at Overwatch and Rainbow Six Siege...Looks at this comments...Looks at Overwatch and Rainbow Six Siege which have over 20 characters and are all incredible...*

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

If Winona gets improved, then I don't see why he couldn't get something else.

Because he's the vanilla character. He's the character you try first. So that's why he shouldn't have any added on mechanics.

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I disagree, the whole avoiding the werebeaver mechanic is what damages Woodie. The werebeaver is an integral part of Woodie, and the character should focus more on embracing it strategically whilst having a penalty (the sanity drain, inability to heal, no access to the map or the inventory). The Werebeaver needs a buff to remain useful/relevant in mid/lategame: being able to use hats/helmets would work early on, and being able to get "boosted" somehow would do for later EG: Every full moon you exist outside of caves "charges" a little a special invisible meter which improves the werebeaver stats. If you exist in at least 3 full moons without dying, the beaver gets the max improved stats including cane movement speed, Battle spear damage, and increased nibbling/attack speed, unless you die and need to start the "charging" again. This combined with helmet use will allow you to have a side tool for combat, even if for whatever reason you are weaponless. Also could work as a good way to farm nightmares, and the increased attack speed could apply to mining/chopping even faster. Wearing bee queen hat could also give you the means to recharge sanity while fighting.

1 hour ago, Mr. Despair said:

No, Just no.

Yes, just yes.

[GMDApple]

1 minute ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I disagree. He's the vanilla character. He shouldn't have any special powers.

There are many games where the first characters have special abilities. I don't see why Wilson can be one?

Quote

*Looks at this comment...Looks at Overwatch and Rainbow Six Siege...Looks at this comments...Looks at Overwatch and Rainbow Six Siege which have over 20 characters and are all incredible...*

Have you ever considered the fact that their characters are only so "incredible" because the developers have been balancing them?

[TheKingofSquirrels]

4 minutes ago, GMDApple said:

There are many games where the first characters have special abilities. I don't see why Wilson can be one?

Well...His beard I think is a decent perk. Specifically because noob players won't know about Winter and won't prepare for it.

However, a possible perk I would be OK with is if Wilson is the only one who can make Meat Effigy's. Mostly because they look like him and it kinda looks odd when other characters use them. 

4 minutes ago, GMDApple said:

Have you ever considered the fact that their characters are only so "incredible" because the developers have been balancing them?

...And why can't Klei do the same?

[GMDApple]

Just now, TheKingofSquirrels said:

However, a possible perk I would be OK with is if Wilson is the only one who can make Meat Effigy's. Mostly because it looks like him and it's kinda looks odd when other characters use them. 

Funny enough, I was thinking of this before.

Quote

...And why can't Klei do the same?

You're right that they should update the characters, but they shouldn't just spit out new characters either.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

6 minutes ago, GMDApple said:

Funny enough, I was thinking of this before.

You're right that they should update the characters, but they shouldn't just spit out new characters either.

Personally, I just feel like when it comes to re-balancing characters, it's all just a lost cause. They won't do it. So I rather they would make new characters that I can fall in love with.

Honestly, for me, my favourite update for this game was when they added Webber and Wigfrid (both of which are my favourite characters) because they changed the way you play the game completely and created an entirely new experience. I really wish DST could do something like that again.

[GMDApple]

Personally I would like them to buff Wilson's Hoarfrost skin by giving him a White beard.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Just now, GMDApple said:

Personally I would like them to buff Wilson's Hoarfrost skin by giving him a White beard.

Too OP man. 

[Cellby]

Ah yes. I was just thinking of this the other day too! This has been a topic of conversation for a long time, so I'd like to think it's on Klei's radar. We definitely need character quality over quantity – Winona came out recently but it seems like she wasn't received too well. She's not bad, just nothing special. This game is built in such a way that it makes it a good base for modders to go wild; I've even seen a Trump character who gains sanity by standing next to walls. Hilarious. There's definitely a lot more unique perks that can be added to each character for a more diverse gameplay, but some need more work than others. (You know who they are.)

Look at how Overwatch drastically changed the core gameplay of some characters, or look at how TF2 has been rebalancing their weapons. People will have mixed feelings about it depending on how it's approached but doing a big change in a game isn't uncommon, as long as we are all working towards general improvement. Even before the latest big update TF2 released their ideas on how to change the weapons on their blog so they could read the feedback and adjust accordingly. They wrote out bullet points for each rarely used weapon and talked about why it's not utilized a lot and how they wanted to improve on it. It was not done before, but the community loved it! Any sort of communication with the fanbase and the developers won't be a bad thing at all. 

Klei devs, if you have stats on everything in the game, like which characters are played the least or which items are never used, you should follow that blueprint. We don't need new characters or new items, just better ones. I bought the Winter skins recently, I'd love to actually have a reason to play Willow! And I would gladly continue to give you guys money if you go in this direction.

I loved The Forge, and I trust that I will enjoy the next event. The former got me back into the game after not playing it for a long time. After all of this is over, though, that should be your next priority. There is growing chatter in the forums about it, people are getting antsy. I shall end this off with something that may be controversial:

CHARACTER REBALANCE > SKINS