Forge Top Speedruns (Videos Included)

[GlassArrow]

The Forge has ended and thus the quest to get faster and faster times has come to an end. A lot of people have asked us for videos of our runs and we were very reluctant to give them out because we wanted to be competitive and wanted others to try and beat us with their own methods. We didn't want others to just copy what we did over and over just to beat our time by 1 second. If a team beat us we wanted them to beat us by their own hard work and perseverance and not by piggybacking off all the time that went in to making these strategies. With that said we'd like to congratulate all the teams that got sub 12. That is not an easy feat. Also, for those that were able to make it on to the leaderboard, we would love to see your runs to compare how other groups evolved their strategies.

Listed below are videos of each of our fastest runs that we have recorded for 6, 5, 3, and 2 man. Unfortunately, the fastest run for 5 man was not recorded so we are posting our fastest that was recorded which was only 7 seconds slower than the time on the leaderboards. Also, we did not record the 4 man run we did and did not realize this until after the event was over so it was too late to go do a quick run.

6 Man

Spoiler

 

 

5 Man

Spoiler

 

 

3 Man

Spoiler

 

 

2 Man

Spoiler

Yes...we did it twice.

 

 

 

SPECIAL

Spoiler

For those of you out there who say that we only got the fastest times because of hacks and exploits, this video is for you. We decided to do a quick run before we got off with no attack animation canceling (single target/multi target spam are forms of cancelling the attack animation) and prove to you that we are the fastest team regardless (even though we know all of you use it anyways ). Note that this was just one quick run and if we had spent time on this and had a clean run we could get sub 11.

 

 

About Our Group:

Spoiler

Our group was very fortunate to meet on the second to last day of the beta where we instantly synced and kept getting faster and faster times even without voice comms and having just met. Once the official release hit we were able to play a few hours every day as a full group, but unfortunately as the event went on we were unable to keep the full group going especially with a holiday in the middle of it. We'd like to give a shout out to TokyoBanana for being a good teammate and a great feeder.

These videos might make what we do look easy and you may even think that certain people are the reason why we are so fast. This is not the case. Everyone contributed to our runs, from positioning, to manipulating mobs, to attack animation canceling, to interrupting attacks, etc. There is a lot going on in our runs that you wouldn't be able to just do first try after watching. The one thing that we never stress enough is that you know how to play the character you are playing and what you should be doing at any given moment. That is one of the reasons why we are so fast. We don't even need voice comms to do what we do because each of us knows what we should be doing and can fully trust the others to do exactly what they need to be doing at any given moment.

I need to thank my group for being very laid back and understanding. We NEVER point fingers at another teammate when something goes wrong. Each of us brings up what we did wrong individually and we work as a team to help fix those mistakes. This is something I wish and hope others will learn from us. You shouldn't be disrespecting and yelling at others telling them what to do or what they did wrong. You should encourage them to do better, give them tips, and help them understand the game.

Special Thanks:

@JoeWThank you Klei for creating and hosting a great event that we hope to see again soon and many times more! Also, thanks for extending the length of the event, it gave our group a chance to reach our ultimate goal of sub 10 since we got zero runs in for a week during the Thanksgiving weekend. But be careful next time, I think you almost killed Bill

Thank you to the Strictly Unprofessional (SU) community for being a good place to find groups to play forge.

Thank you to everyone part of this speed running group. I had already enjoyed Forge a lot, but you guys made me become addicted to playing it and coming up with new strategies every night. @TShawKiller@eXiGe@Billiscool@faraday@KiLimePie We'd also like to thank @Trol, @TokyoBanana, @ke126 who were unable to find time to speedrun with us everyday, but still got on when they could. And also @Beablah for joining us when we needed a 6th and understanding when we already had a full party.

Lastly, Wicker is the superior healer.

[Soulk]

Congratz guys

[Chen322]

Glassarrow and bill using auto because moving forward only when fast attack even if there danger they move forward not other ways. My team dont use auto so good job you get 11:26 your real record because no auto

[artemiyME]

thanks for a SU plug, was a pleasure see you succeed and earn pickles along the way :D. Hopefully it was enough of an encouragement to push you to the next level.

[eXiGe]

On 12/5/2017 at 6:26 PM, Chen322 said:

Glassarrow and bill using auto because moving forward only when fast attack even if there danger they move forward not other ways. My team dont use auto so good job you get 11:26 your real record because no auto

Keep your salt to yourself.

[GlassArrow]

@Chen322 Were you on one of the teams on the leaderboard? Feel free to share a video of your team's fastest runs so we can compare strategies.

@CrazyMoeMew Would also love to see your team's runs, if you could post them here?

[obzerverlk]

thx for your wonderful play ~~~~

[CrazyMoeMew]

On 2017/12/6 at 11:04 AM, GlassArrow said:

Would also love to see your team's runs, if you could post them here?

I think I'd better to start a new topic for those videos.

btw, I don't know who is that Chen322 guy.

[CrazyMoeMew]

On 2017/12/6 at 8:26 AM, Chen322 said:

Glassarrow and bill using auto because moving forward only when fast attack even if there danger they move forward not other ways.

At least I know, Almost every forge speedruns team in my country was using that staff-weapon trick. Whatever it is in 14:xx or 12:xx. That is not a secret at all.

That trick you called 'auto' is not a sufficient condition of Speedruns and it definitely can be done by human's hands. My team started using it when we were in our 16:xx. And till in our 11:xx, we still using it. Is that trick really so ass-kicking and affect final records badly?  I think not.

If you means that tactics have a serious impact on competitive fairness. I think you may start a topic and tell Klei about that instead of blaming on their good records.

At last. Sorry for my poor English...

[Chen322]

Ya it possible by human hands but they using auto obvious just press cheat button easy fast attack like robot were is honour in that ?? Only pro Tshaw because only skill and human hand no auto. Sorry also my bad english

[Soulk]

17 minutes ago, Chen322 said:

Ya it possible by human hands but they using auto obvious just press cheat button easy fast attack like robot were is honour in that ?? Only pro Tshaw because only skill and human hand no auto. Sorry also my bad english

Im sorry if you were not able to get a good time, maybe u could've found better team mates or make friends to play with.

[Zinfidel]

I remember thinking to myself when I saw the posted times, "They must be using some really bizarre and unheard of strategy to be getting times like that." The fact that the times were achieved just using well-known techniques, but with nearly inhuman levels of precision and consistency, kind of makes the achievement more impressive to me.

Congrats to all of you.

[Chen322]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av16915801/ 天决 5:40 using hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUKIwhi1_1c glassarrow 5:30 bill 8:20 using auto

Forge gone dont matter but you think its fair some of your player use auto to be fastest team? I dont think so. All I have to say bye.

[CrazyMoeMew]

19 minutes ago, Chen322 said:

Ya it possible by human hands but they using auto obvious just press cheat button easy fast attack like robot were is honour in that ?? Only pro Tshaw because only skill and human hand no auto. Sorry also my bad english

It's hard to explain that trick's details. You know that while on the highest frequence of staff trick, your WASD keys or mouse right-click for moving is about losing their function. Whatever you do to move your character will only lead your character to your current target.

But to do it perfectly is not easy feat by human's hands. It's depends on pings, network stability and even using mouse or keyboard for moving interrupting will have huge diffs.

On my experience, neither pings too low or too high will help that trick. 30-50ms is the best. And when using mouse to interrupt the track of character movement can be just like that.

I had seen their video for at least 10 times. Of course I'm also having same doubts just like you. But only doubts won't take account.

Personally, I don't care about the records self at all. What I really care is the procedure of being faster.

[Soulk]

1 hour ago, Chen322 said:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av16915801/ 天决 5:40 using hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUKIwhi1_1c glassarrow 5:30 bill 8:20 using auto

Forge gone dont matter but you think its fair some of your player use auto to be fastest team? I dont think so. All I have to say bye.

can't understand this guy :S

[GlassArrow]

@Chen322This is why our team hopes that Klei, @JoeW, fixes the exploit of attack animation canceling because no matter what we say or do you will always call us cheaters. We can't prove that we were not cheating and you can't prove that we were. We've been called cheaters and hackers this entire event because we were always faster than everyone else. We even posted a video of one of our runs to prove that we were not cheating and that sub 14 was easily doable. Then the other groups caught up and yet even though they were closer to us, we were still called cheaters.

That is also why we posted a video of a run that had no attack animation cancels to satisfy people's thoughts of us cheating, but apparently that is still not enough for them. As far as we know that 11:26 run is the fastest time without using "exploits" (@CrazyMoeMew did your team do any runs without attack animation cancels?), but unfortunately you can't beat other teams without using the same exploits they are using. All I have to say is accept it; we had the fastest time and even without using attack animation cancels, I believe we still would have had the fastest time.

Also, please don't discount other teammates. As I said above, each of us played a role in getting this time. The Forge is a team oriented game and when going for fast runs it only takes one mistake from one person to mess up a run. If it was solely based on one person's performance then every time he/she played with any other team, that team would be getting top times, but that was not the case at all. So once again, don't discount anyone's performance; that is disrespectful and there is no honor in that.

@CrazyMoeMew, @Soulk, @Zinfidel, and @obzerverlk thank you for not calling us cheaters and understanding what went into these records. I would love to play with you guys on the next Forge event. Feel free to add me on steam.

[HamBatter]

Chen322 is saying that some automation went into 9:57, so there is no meaningful way to compare that to the 10:46 time without knowing how much time-savings the automation contributed.

You could always watch both videos to see what paths were optimal and make some adjustments, but that might have resulted in a change of team comp.

[Soulk]

@GlassArrow thanks my friend ;D we did played some games, and actually my record was 13:26 with you and @eXiGe playing together and i remember using max as fire staff user and i was pretty bad with animation cancel xD and we still had that time.

Also i congrat you a lot for that awesome mod for the detailed summary, if the people used it they could've noticed that even the fire staff user doing over 50k dmg it wasnt even the 30% of the team dmg, so as you said Forge was a Team Oriented event where everyone played a important rol.

[TheFacelessMane]

Oh, drama. I agree with HamBatter, though. I don't think he is complaining that animation-cancels were used, but that automations (scripts, macros etc) were used to achieve the cancels. 

It's all a bit of a moot point though. It's not like there's a prize for being the fastest team. Maybe if there was this would be worth arguing over or looking into. But until then...

[GlassArrow]

@HamBatter@TheFacelessMane We know what he is saying and we can't prove it without having someone watching us play over our shoulders. I can tell you that we did not always include single target animation cancels in our runs and the times we got on those sat between 10:15 and 10:35, but we don't have videos of those runs since we deleted older videos as we broke the record times. This is why we hope Klei does fix this exploit so no one can complain about us being the fastest, but more than likely, others will find a way to call us cheaters.

[Soulk]

Another thing that i can say, this is DST not DOTA2 / LoL where scripters are punished, this was just an event that klei was testing, was something new, they gathered a lot of feedback and yes the best solution its to find that exploit fix so everyone can be happy.

[Seveni]

I don't think they're cheating, just using an exploit that the developers should fix. Although I think it gave a higher skill cap for other characters than just Woodie. It would  be pretty boring if everyone just decided to be a Woodie Main since they want to play the high skill cap character compared to others in the forge.

 

I also got the chance to play one game with TShaw when he told his friend, and I overheard that he had taken a break for one week?

Well congratz on your times, also congratz to asian folks too.

[TheFacelessMane]

16 hours ago, GlassArrow said:

This is why we hope Klei does fix this exploit

But nothing needs to be fixed? Animation canceling is not an "exploit." It exists in many games, and is often even an intended gameplay mechanic to reward players who do things manually. In fact, many DST (main game) players use animation cancels whether they know it or not. Please don't ruin the game for myself and many other players by making Klei disable it. My interest in the Forge lasted way longer thanks to discovering multishot and rapidfire. Don't make Klei take away my fun! :[

Okay so I watched the 9:57 video again and I will say this. The rapidfiring does look very sketchy. I like to think I played Forge enough to know that each person has their own unique pattern of rapidfiring, that forms as a combination of ping, errors, rhythm, directions used etc. And there is a kind of constant/mechanical/unnatural rhythm to the way rapidfiring is being done by the staffers in that video. Not to mention... that pattern is identical between the two staff holders. I think that may be what Chen322 was trying to say. Now, it wouldn't be implausible if a macro or DST script was created and formed specifically for the the WR, because every second counts and a near-perfect rapidfire would help a lot.

I don't do speedruns, but I have a friend who does them for sidescroller games. Depends on the type of speedrun, but exploits and bugs are often fair-game. But iirc, automations were always frowned upon. My point in saying this is if some people are salty about y'alls record, maybe this helps you see where they're coming from? They probably feel the WR was obtained unfairly. Idk. I personally don't do macros or scripts because playing with them, or playing with someone who uses them, risks me losing interest in the game. I didn't even bother with disabling click to walk because I feared that might things too easy and less challenging. But that's a me thing. I have no problem with people using scripts/mods/whatever, but I guess if they were using it for a speedrun, it would give me a bad aftertaste too *shrug*

[Zinfidel]

2 hours ago, TheFacelessMane said:

But nothing needs to be fixed? Animation canceling is not an "exploit."

Animation canceling is the mechanic that enables the exploit, not the exploit itself. Using animation cancelling to increase the attack speed of weapons well past what they are supposed to be by tricking the game into discarding the cooldown between attacks is clearly an exploitative use of the mechanic. Animation cancelling does not need to be removed for the exploit to be fixed.

 

[HamBatter]

1 hour ago, Zinfidel said:

Using animation cancelling to increase the attack speed of weapons well past what they are supposed to be by tricking the game into discarding the cooldown between attacks is clearly an exploitative use of the mechanic.

Except it's available to all players in the system to use. There's a difference between competing and wanting to see what's possible.