GlassArrow

Forge Top Speedruns (Videos Included)

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Chen322    4

Glassarrow and bill using auto because moving forward only when fast attack even if there danger they move forward not other ways. My team dont use auto so good job you get 11:26 your real record because no auto

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artemiyME    140

thanks for a SU plug, was a pleasure see you succeed and earn pickles along the way :D. Hopefully it was enough of an encouragement to push you to the next level.

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eXiGe    25
On 12/5/2017 at 6:26 PM, Chen322 said:

Glassarrow and bill using auto because moving forward only when fast attack even if there danger they move forward not other ways. My team dont use auto so good job you get 11:26 your real record because no auto

Keep your salt to yourself.

Edited by eXiGe
unreasonable assumption

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GlassArrow    44

@Chen322 Were you on one of the teams on the leaderboard? Feel free to share a video of your team's fastest runs so we can compare strategies.

@CrazyMoeMew Would also love to see your team's runs, if you could post them here?

Edited by GlassArrow

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CrazyMoeMew    21
On 2017/12/6 at 11:04 AM, GlassArrow said:

Would also love to see your team's runs, if you could post them here?

I think I'd better to start a new topic for those videos.

btw, I don't know who is that Chen322 guy.

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CrazyMoeMew    21
On 2017/12/6 at 8:26 AM, Chen322 said:

Glassarrow and bill using auto because moving forward only when fast attack even if there danger they move forward not other ways.

At least I know, Almost every forge speedruns team in my country was using that staff-weapon trick. Whatever it is in 14:xx or 12:xx. That is not a secret at all.

That trick you called 'auto' is not a sufficient condition of Speedruns and it definitely can be done by human's hands. My team started using it when we were in our 16:xx. And till in our 11:xx, we still using it. Is that trick really so ass-kicking and affect final records badly?  I think not.

If you means that tactics have a serious impact on competitive fairness. I think you may start a topic and tell Klei about that instead of blaming on their good records.

At last. Sorry for my poor English...

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Chen322    4

Ya it possible by human hands but they using auto obvious just press cheat button easy fast attack like robot were is honour in that ?? Only pro Tshaw because only skill and human hand no auto. Sorry also my bad english

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Soulk    104
17 minutes ago, Chen322 said:

Ya it possible by human hands but they using auto obvious just press cheat button easy fast attack like robot were is honour in that ?? Only pro Tshaw because only skill and human hand no auto. Sorry also my bad english

Im sorry if you were not able to get a good time, maybe u could've found better team mates or make friends to play with.

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Zinfidel    9

I remember thinking to myself when I saw the posted times, "They must be using some really bizarre and unheard of strategy to be getting times like that." The fact that the times were achieved just using well-known techniques, but with nearly inhuman levels of precision and consistency, kind of makes the achievement more impressive to me.

Congrats to all of you.

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CrazyMoeMew    21
19 minutes ago, Chen322 said:

Ya it possible by human hands but they using auto obvious just press cheat button easy fast attack like robot were is honour in that ?? Only pro Tshaw because only skill and human hand no auto. Sorry also my bad english

It's hard to explain that trick's details. You know that while on the highest frequence of staff trick, your WASD keys or mouse right-click for moving is about losing their function. Whatever you do to move your character will only lead your character to your current target.

But to do it perfectly is not easy feat by human's hands. It's depends on pings, network stability and even using mouse or keyboard for moving interrupting will have huge diffs.

On my experience, neither pings too low or too high will help that trick. 30-50ms is the best. And when using mouse to interrupt the track of character movement can be just like that.

I had seen their video for at least 10 times. Of course I'm also having same doubts just like you. But only doubts won't take account.

Personally, I don't care about the records self at all. What I really care is the procedure of being faster.

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HamBatter    418

Chen322 is saying that some automation went into 9:57, so there is no meaningful way to compare that to the 10:46 time without knowing how much time-savings the automation contributed.

You could always watch both videos to see what paths were optimal and make some adjustments, but that might have resulted in a change of team comp.

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Soulk    104

@GlassArrow thanks my friend ;D we did played some games, and actually my record was 13:26 with you and @eXiGe playing together and i remember using max as fire staff user and i was pretty bad with animation cancel xD and we still had that time.

Also i congrat you a lot for that awesome mod for the detailed summary, if the people used it they could've noticed that even the fire staff user doing over 50k dmg it wasnt even the 30% of the team dmg, so as you said Forge was a Team Oriented event where everyone played a important rol.

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Oh, drama. I agree with HamBatter, though. I don't think he is complaining that animation-cancels were used, but that automations (scripts, macros etc) were used to achieve the cancels. 

It's all a bit of a moot point though. It's not like there's a prize for being the fastest team. Maybe if there was this would be worth arguing over or looking into. But until then...

tumblr_o6kmq2DFPo1rdbd0qo9_r1_250.gif

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GlassArrow    44

@HamBatter@TheFacelessMane We know what he is saying and we can't prove it without having someone watching us play over our shoulders. I can tell you that we did not always include single target animation cancels in our runs and the times we got on those sat between 10:15 and 10:35, but we don't have videos of those runs since we deleted older videos as we broke the record times. This is why we hope Klei does fix this exploit so no one can complain about us being the fastest, but more than likely, others will find a way to call us cheaters.

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Soulk    104

Another thing that i can say, this is DST not DOTA2 / LoL where scripters are punished, this was just an event that klei was testing, was something new, they gathered a lot of feedback and yes the best solution its to find that exploit fix so everyone can be happy.

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Seveni    8

I don't think they're cheating, just using an exploit that the developers should fix. Although I think it gave a higher skill cap for other characters than just Woodie. It would  be pretty boring if everyone just decided to be a Woodie Main since they want to play the high skill cap character compared to others in the forge.

 

I also got the chance to play one game with TShaw when he told his friend, and I overheard that he had taken a break for one week?

Well congratz on your times, also congratz to asian folks too.

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16 hours ago, GlassArrow said:

This is why we hope Klei does fix this exploit

But nothing needs to be fixed? Animation canceling is not an "exploit." It exists in many games, and is often even an intended gameplay mechanic to reward players who do things manually. In fact, many DST (main game) players use animation cancels whether they know it or not. Please don't ruin the game for myself and many other players by making Klei disable it. My interest in the Forge lasted way longer thanks to discovering multishot and rapidfire. Don't make Klei take away my fun! :[

Okay so I watched the 9:57 video again and I will say this. The rapidfiring does look very sketchy. I like to think I played Forge enough to know that each person has their own unique pattern of rapidfiring, that forms as a combination of ping, errors, rhythm, directions used etc. And there is a kind of constant/mechanical/unnatural rhythm to the way rapidfiring is being done by the staffers in that video. Not to mention... that pattern is identical between the two staff holders. I think that may be what Chen322 was trying to say. Now, it wouldn't be implausible if a macro or DST script was created and formed specifically for the the WR, because every second counts and a near-perfect rapidfire would help a lot.

I don't do speedruns, but I have a friend who does them for sidescroller games. Depends on the type of speedrun, but exploits and bugs are often fair-game. But iirc, automations were always frowned upon. My point in saying this is if some people are salty about y'alls record, maybe this helps you see where they're coming from? They probably feel the WR was obtained unfairly. Idk. I personally don't do macros or scripts because playing with them, or playing with someone who uses them, risks me losing interest in the game. I didn't even bother with disabling click to walk because I feared that might things too easy and less challenging. But that's a me thing. I have no problem with people using scripts/mods/whatever, but I guess if they were using it for a speedrun, it would give me a bad aftertaste too *shrug*

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Zinfidel    9
2 hours ago, TheFacelessMane said:

But nothing needs to be fixed? Animation canceling is not an "exploit."

Animation canceling is the mechanic that enables the exploit, not the exploit itself. Using animation cancelling to increase the attack speed of weapons well past what they are supposed to be by tricking the game into discarding the cooldown between attacks is clearly an exploitative use of the mechanic. Animation cancelling does not need to be removed for the exploit to be fixed.

 

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HamBatter    418
1 hour ago, Zinfidel said:

Using animation cancelling to increase the attack speed of weapons well past what they are supposed to be by tricking the game into discarding the cooldown between attacks is clearly an exploitative use of the mechanic.

Except it's available to all players in the system to use. There's a difference between competing and wanting to see what's possible.

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