Arcwell Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 With the beta being gone and the release of the elemental book, it looks like Wickerbottom is finally seeing equal if not more use than Winona as a healer. Yet, I still see people arguing that Winona is a better healer than Wickerbottom, and that Wickerbottom is a better healer than Winona. Gonna ask the forum's opinion on this one, and for that, here's some numbers: Note: base cooldown time, heal amount, and heal duration is taken from this thread (Thanks RancorSnp!) Base heal: 60 hp Base cooldown: 24 seconds Casting time: ~2 seconds Heal duration: 10 seconds Wickerbottom boost efficiency: 33% Winona cooldown reduction: 10% Woven garland heal boost: 20% Crystal tiara cooldown reduction: 10% Wickerbottom (boosted) with woven garland: Heal: 96 hp Cooldown (w/silk): 21.6 seconds Time spent without CC per cast (excluding stuns): ~13.6 seconds Wickerbottom (boosted) with crystal tiara: Heal: 80 hp Cooldown (w/silk): 19.2 seconds Time spent without CC per cast (excluding stuns): ~11.2 seconds Winona with woven garland: Heal: 72 hp Cooldown (w/silk): 19.2 seconds Time spent without CC per cast (excluding stuns): ~11.2 seconds Winona with crystal tiara: Heal: 60 hp Cooldown (w/silk): 16.8 seconds Time spent without CC per cast (excluding stuns): ~8.8 seconds Of course, aside from the raw stats, each has their own benefits and disadvantages. Wickerbottom starts with a tome of petrification, which is amazing for controlling earlier waves, especially in combination with the heal staff. Wicker can also use the elemental tome for extra damage, though she isn't guaranteed to get a boosted heal every time she casts since the living staff doesn't do too much damage. Winona on the other hand, starts with an anvil hammer, which can see use on snortoises/boarilla when shields need to be broken. She can also switch to darts for extra damage in between heals. Her ability in comparison with Wickerbottom is always active and not defined by how much the player is holding F. So, which healer would you prefer on your team? Do you think it makes the other healer obsolete? Which situations/team comps does one excel over the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDeepDarkmind Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 WINONA MAKES ME REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I like winona if she does heal then DPS then heal then DPS, get me because I'm more of a Jill of a trades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brbrmensch Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, MrDeepDarkmind said: Jill of a trades but she's as good at hammering as any other players and also one of the best healers, so that's the wrong way of describing her (if i understand this correctly: can do everything, but not good enough) that makes her "maximum efficiency" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWatson Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Heal frequency is not very important for the whole match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 best healer is wickerbottom juggling hats, cast heal with garland, then pick up tiara to charge it faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, Jurgens said: best healer is wickerbottom juggling hats, cast heal with garland, then pick up tiara to charge it faster. Cooldown reduction is only applied at the cast, so juggling hats only gets the effect of one hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 38 minutes ago, Arcwell said: Cooldown reduction is only applied at the cast, so juggling hats only gets the effect of one hat. Its not, has already been proven. Even the visual clock of the cooldown goes faster. Try it, cast heal naked, equipt armor and hat for CDR and look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jurgens said: Its not, has already been proven. Even the visual clock of the cooldown goes faster. Try it, cast heal naked, equipt armor and hat for CDR and look. I'm not sure what proof you're referring to, but I don't notice a difference in the cooldown time when swapping hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Lets say it doesnt affect then, Wicker >>> Winona, WIcker heals pick Firestaff get into the heal F to hit a pig 8 times cast cataclysm get heal back, easy last boss. But i think winona is better for newbies for faster CC with heal and to clean scorpeon poison faster. For experienced players its better wickerbottom as u can even ignore the sleep on Boarrior and go straigth dps until he summons pigs then heal party heals up faster Boarrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jurgens said: Lets say it doesnt affect then, Wicker >>> Winona, WIcker heals pick Firestaff get into the heal F to hit a pig 8 times cast cataclysm get heal back, easy last boss. I mean I agree that Wicker is better than Winona as a healer, but having both the Living staff and the inferno staff on one character is such a waste. Wicker can get a buffed heal with Living Staff DPS alone, and giving the inferno staff to your healer makes the team lose out on a bunch of DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Just now, Arcwell said: I mean I agree that Wicker is better than Winona as a healer, but having both the Living staff and the inferno staff on one character is such a waste. Wicker can get a buffed heal with Living Staff DPS alone, and giving the inferno staff to your healer makes the team lose out on a bunch of DPS. I didnt said to give the inferno to the healer, Fire user Willow/Maxwell save meteor, while pigs are asleep wicker heal takes the staff cast cataclysm pick up heal staff again keep healing, that's speed run tactic ;D so team save special to stun boss. If u interested here is this video: Boss figth at 11:50, if you watch the whole video you see the healer juggling books heal staff and helmets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Jurgens said: WIcker heals pick Firestaff 1 minute ago, Jurgens said: I didnt said to give the inferno to the healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 If you quote like that i can do wonders too, just keeping the comments related to the post. Wicker pro heal pick Winona avg pick Wilson noob pick. Noob ----> New player, is not an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Now i can safely say Best healer is Wickerbottom changing hats plus using the golem book. Just confirmed CDR armor lower your cooldown while you wear the item not when you cast it, casted a heal naked, picked up the CDR armor and Tiara thats 20% the heal was ready in 20 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orian34 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I guess that answers a big question... and adds more work for the Healerbottoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Yes and no. Swapping hats does work 100% confirmed (this mod shows the timer if you're still skeptical: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1205841537&searchtext=forge), but Wicker still needs to build up damage in order to get a buffed heal. In my experience it takes the entire volley (or close to it) in between heals to build enough damage for that. You would get more time to attack if you're using the woodie strat that baits out the Boarrior's shockwaves, but using that strat more or less makes heal cooldown irrelevant. Of course, with the Woodie strat the cooldown would still be nice for swapping to elemental book (not sure how that works with it on the ground), and both elemental and heal cooldown reduction is helpful on earlier sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clri Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Wickerbottom's definitely the best healer (juggling hats), especially since she has added utility - she can read books while enemies are asleep for extra damage / CC. Winona can't do that. Her empowered heals are very nice early-game, especially for scorpions, though for the Boarrior it's better to avoid hitting it at all so that you don't get its aggro. Anyone can be a decent healer, though - I have beat the game with four people as a Wilson healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamBatter Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Arcwell said: but Wicker still needs to build up damage in order to get a buffed heal. In my experience it takes the entire volley (or close to it) in between heals to build enough damage for that. You would get more time to attack if you're using the woodie strat that baits out the Boarrior's shockwaves, but using that strat more or less makes heal cooldown irrelevant. Of course, with the Woodie strat the cooldown would still be nice for swapping to elemental book (not sure how that works with it on the ground), and both elemental and heal cooldown reduction is helpful on earlier sections. As long as the golem is cast at the end of the heal you'll be able to amplify the next heal just by holding F. You don't even need to swap hats because amplified heal and garland should keep almost everyone at full health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 9 hours ago, Arcwell said: Yes and no. Swapping hats does work 100% confirmed (this mod shows the timer if you're still skeptical: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1205841537&searchtext=forge), but Wicker still needs to build up damage in order to get a buffed heal. In my experience it takes the entire volley (or close to it) in between heals to build enough damage for that. You would get more time to attack if you're using the woodie strat that baits out the Boarrior's shockwaves, but using that strat more or less makes heal cooldown irrelevant. Of course, with the Woodie strat the cooldown would still be nice for swapping to elemental book (not sure how that works with it on the ground), and both elemental and heal cooldown reduction is helpful on earlier sections. Not if you multi target, you need 20 hits, if you multi target its possible to amp in around 4 seconds. Thats why i say, Wicker best healer in pro hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Jurgens said: Not if you multi target Did you not read that I was talking about Boarrior? The only phase he has with multiple enemies is the pig phase, and meteor deals with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 4 hours ago, HamBatter said: As long as the golem is cast at the end of the heal you'll be able to amplify the next heal just by holding F. You don't even need to swap hats because amplified heal and garland should keep almost everyone at full health. Thats rigth, if you winona and heal every 9 seconds taking into account the CC time, its a waste of time as most of the time the party is still at full hp. What i do as wickerbottom is first cast heal then when party is full HP i amp the book then amp the heal and cast the heal, on the amp heal tanks are around 50% so they heal up to 100 with amp heal. Just now, Arcwell said: Did you not read that I was talking about Boarrior? The only phase he has with multiple enemies is the pig phase, and meteor deals with them. Well, you are saying this first 9 hours ago, Arcwell said: but Wicker still needs to build up damage in order to get a buffed heal. and then in another sentence this: 9 hours ago, Arcwell said: You would get more time to attack if you're using the woodie strat that baits out the Boarrior's shockwaves So you mention the boarior after wicker heals so you should redact properly in order to make ppl understand better But about what you say, i am able to cast both book and amp heal and not let my party die (wicker best healer jugging hats in experienced player) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Fair point. I didn't say so much as imply hat swapping wouldn't matter on Boarrior specifically. The reason for that is that the team should basically always be attacking enemies in heals unless it's the Boarrior, hence "entire volley (or close to it) in between heals." Sleep time cuts into damage build time on pretty much only the Boarrior, which makes hat swapping less useful on that fight specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulk Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Arcwell said: Fair point. I didn't say so much as imply hat swapping wouldn't matter on Boarrior specifically. The reason for that is that the team should basically always be attacking enemies in heals unless it's the Boarrior, hence "entire volley (or close to it) in between heals." Sleep time cuts into damage build time on pretty much only the Boarrior, which makes hat swapping less useful on that fight specifically. thats good . good luck my friend on your chests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tukmens Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Many of you don't count in a very important advantage - healing frequency also reduces damage taken to players, Winona with tiara can heal often enough to avoid any or most of the damage taken by last boss if other players rotate specials wisely also your heal is always ready for unpredictable moments when you need to be ready to make mobs sleep and you can always avoid any scorpion poison damage. Also Winonas health allows you to play stress free and take aggro and you will be fine even after multiple hits. + Rotating both hats is more than enough healing for even bad teams. Winona is a perfect healer for random groups. But Wickers superior healing is good only when your team is very good and everyone knows what they do otherwise it's risky with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 You make some good points and some bad points. Higher frequency healing when combined with stuns from specials can almost entirely negate damage taken from the Boarrior if executed correctly by the entire team. It's also a lot nicer to have it 2.4 seconds earlier when you need it, such as when your tank is dying of acid, or when you need a heal for the pig spawn on Boarrior. However, even with a 16.8 second heal cooldown, there's 8.8 seconds where people can take damage from scorpeon acid (factoring in casting time). Also, you cannot take aggro as a healer even with 200 health because taking hits means you can't finish casting your heal without being interrupted, which jeopardizes the rest of your team's health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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