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[Game Update] - 234418


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  • Developer
  • Exosuit Dock should no longer fail to charge a suit if the attached pipe is empty
  • Morbs should now be trappable
  • Oil Well meter should now work
  • Plants should no longer look offset when using Rotated Farm Tiles
  • Increased Polymer Press conversion rate
  • Decor Overlay should no longer reveal items in the fog of war
  • Ruin doors should now properly reveal fog of war when opened
  • Fixed a bug where the research screen could scroll infinitely

 

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Excellent work on the updates, out of interest what are the new values of the polymer press?

*Edit* Nevermind, I just checked - 500g/s really? Do you mind making my steam geysers give me 100kg/s too whilst you're at it ;) 

Edited by Lifegrow
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The suit locker's conduit consumer is still missing a capacity to keep it from making 400 kg oxygen bottles.
And it's still costing 600W and 5 kg of water to make 1 kg of oil, making every oil product completely unreasonable to make.

Which by the way means the best case scenario for the oil refinery is that the power spent on the oil input is 6240W. Add to that the 480W from the refinery itself, you spend 1344W per 1 kg of petrol. It just keeps compounding from there.
 

Edited by Risu
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29 minutes ago, Cheerio said:

Increased Polymer Press conversion rate

It also only needs 240 W now (it used to be 480 W, I'm not misremembering that, right?).
Heat production is the same, idk about CO2 and steam but those don't really matter.

Edited by Michi01
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Hey @Cheerio,

since yesterday i get a crash on the very same cycle just after loading (1/2 cycle into the game) (cycle 348)

happened with

234175
234293
234418

so i uploaded my last few tries hoping you could have a look into it or at least tell how to avoid it.
since im having oil refining running, i am not sure if it hast sth to do with the new features or else - but it sucks that i cant continue playing after all.

heres hope you could give me some feedback on this.

Thanks

 

 

Edited by Speadge
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1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

Excellent work on the updates, out of interest what are the new values of the polymer press?

*Edit* Nevermind, I just checked - 500g/s really? Do you mind making my steam geysers give me 100kg/s too whilst you're at it ;) 

I think the quantity (of the polymer press, not the sarcastic request) is fair given all the trouble you have to go through. Remember that a single plastic tile still costs 100kg. That's 200s to produce enough plastic for one single plastic tile, and given the game encourages you to build these as it gives a 50% speed increase, compared to normal tiles only giving 25%,  it will take a long while to get any effect out of it.

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2 hours ago, Michi01 said:

It also only needs 240 W now (it used to be 480 W, I'm not misremembering that, right?).
Heat production is the same, idk about CO2 and steam but those don't really matter.

Speak for yourself.  I have no use for steam and every watt spent to dispose of the stuff is a wasted watt.  :(

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1 hour ago, turbonl64 said:

I think the quantity (of the polymer press, not the sarcastic request) is fair given all the trouble you have to go through. Remember that a single plastic tile still costs 100kg. That's 200s to produce enough plastic for one single plastic tile, and given the game encourages you to build these as it gives a 50% speed increase, compared to normal tiles only giving 25%,  it will take a long while to get any effect out of it.

The "sarcastic request" was in response to the usual dumbing down of the game to accommodate whining members of the community ;) 

Yes it was a much lower throughput before, however again - it made it felt like a late game resource, something to strive towards, something to build up an infrastructure to support. Now you could build your entire base out of plastic by only tapping into one small pocket of oil if you so desire - converting oil to plastic at a 1:1.7 ratio doesn't seem right to me. Meh, whatever - personally I like a challenge.

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This oil-plastic is too much engineering for contain the waste output they produce, can we get output pipe?

, making specialize room for them thus require dupe labor is too complicated ,

and end product its not wise balance for end game stuff

suit not needing plastic , its end game stuff there, but we can built it on early on

Animal trapper its useless when the time we already reach end game and trap all hatch without it

 

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28 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

The "sarcastic request" was in response to the usual dumbing down of the game to accommodate whining members of the community ;) 

Yes it was a much lower throughput before, however again - it made it felt like a late game resource, something to strive towards, something to build up an infrastructure to support. Now you could build your entire base out of plastic by only tapping into one small pocket of oil if you so desire - converting oil to plastic at a 1:1.7 ratio doesn't seem right to me. Meh, whatever - personally I like a challenge.

Given all the oil usually is near the bottom of the map, I don't see how plastic is not a late game resource. Also again: one polymer press will only be able to produce 300kg per cycle. That's 3 plastic tiles. These polymer presses neither are easy to manage with the heat they produce, so there's a challenge in that as well. Finally, although the oil fields are abundant on their own, ultimately if oil wells are left ignored they will dry up. And tapping into oil wells is very costly concerning water. Regardless of the ratio, that is for me a proper challenge. Accepting the challenge and going through the effort should atleast give an appropiate reward, else plastic will generally be left alone. In the current state the game is, I would not even bother with plastic on a new game. Although I mentioned the game tries to encourage you to use it, it can be fully ignored and is perhaps advisable to do so.

 

(That being said, I'll probably will produce tons of it just to get my high tech polymer base.)

Edited by Guest
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Just now, turbonl64 said:

Given all the oil usually is near the bottom of the map, I don't see how plastic is not a late game resource. Also again: one polymer press will only be able to produce 300kg per cycle. That's 3 plastic tiles. These polymer presses neither are easy to manage with the heat they produce, so there's a challenge in that as well. Finally, although the oil fields are abundant on their own, ultimately if oil wells are left ignored they will dry up. And tapping into oiil wells is very costly concerning water. Regardless of the ratio, that is for me a proper challenge. Accepting the challenge and going through the effort should atleast give an appropiate reward, else plastic will generally be left alone. In the current state the game is, I would not even bother with plastic on a new game. Although I mentioned the game tries to encourage you to use it, it can be fully ignored and is perhaps advisable to do so.

 

(That being said, I'll probably swill produce tons of it just to get my high tech polymer base.)

I can only assume you've not really played with the new oil-related tech yet then... It's incredibly easy to cool if you exploit the gasses the machines output. I.e. condensing the steam that the press creates is instant water cooling, without having to deliver any water. 2-3 wheezeworts below a floor of granite tiles would suffice quite nicely actually. 

As regards oil being "late game" because you have to dig for it.... come on now. A one ladder shaft dug out 3 tiles wide and you're there in 15 cycles max. 

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17 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

I can only assume you've not really played with the new oil-related tech yet then... It's incredibly easy to cool if you exploit the gasses the machines output. I.e. condensing the steam that the press creates is instant water cooling, without having to deliver any water. 2-3 wheezeworts below a floor of granite tiles would suffice quite nicely actually. 

As regards oil being "late game" because you have to dig for it.... come on now. A one ladder shaft dug out 3 tiles wide and you're there in 15 cycles max. 

I can only assume you are assuming too much :D. My set up is a polymer press inside an ice biome, filled with hydrogen, 4 wheezeworts and a radiator filled with oil. Is it easy concerning concept? Of course, but that's just about everything in ONI. But, I had to sacrifice 4 wheeze worts which I otherwise am using to cool off my base and I had to set up pipes all the way from my electrolyzers to said ice biome. That's troublesome. Yes the notion troublesome is subjective, but compared to basically anything else in ONI, that is troublesome. In my eyes, an oxygen liquifier is less troublesome because you can build it much more local.

As regards because you have to dig for it: sure, I'll let my dupes dig a hole while neglecting ev-er-y-thing else. I do not think your primary concern when a new game starts, is plastic. Before all other needs are forfilled, it's already late game. Plastic is not a priority among having oxygen and food, it's not a priority among power, it's not among plumbing, it's not among ventilating. If you look at all of your available buildings on the tech tree, oil and affiliated structures will probably be the very last things you are going to use. In my eyes, that's end game. And because you are not going use it until everything else is forfilled, you are not specifically going to dig for it.

Also does not disprove my point that plastic is not enough of a reward at the current moment.

Edited by Guest
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3 hours ago, Speadge said:

 

since yesterday i get a crash on the very same cycle just after loading (1/2 cycle into the game) (cycle 348)

happened with

234175
234293
234418

so i uploaded my last few tries hoping you could have a look into it or at least tell how to avoid it.
since im having oil refining running, i am not sure if it hast sth to do with the new features or else - but it sucks that i cant continue playing after all.

If you can get into debug mode, try destroying / deconstructing your oil well, and the oil refinery. This may not be the definitive solution, but it may help isolate the issue. 

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1 minute ago, turbonl64 said:

I can only assume you are assuming too much :D. My set up is a polymer inside an ice biome, filled with hydrogen, 4 wheezeworts and a radiator filled with oil. Is it easy concerning concept? Of course, but that's just about everything in ONI. But, I had to sacrifice 4 wheeze worts which I otherwise am using to cool off my base and I had to set up pipes all the way from my electrolyzers to said ice biome. That's troublesome. Yes the notion troublesome is subjective, but compared to basically anything else in ONI, that is troublesome.

As regards because you have to dig for it: sure, I'll let my dupes dig a hole while neglecting ev-er-y-thing else. I do not think your primary concern when a new game starts, is plastic. Before all other needs are forfilled, it's already late game. Plastic is not a priority among having oxygen and food, it's not a priority among power, it's not among plumbing, it's not among ventilating. If you look at all of your available buildings on the tech tree, oil and affiliated structures will probably be the very last things you are going to use. In my eyes, that's end game.

Also does not disprove my point that plastic is not enough of a reward at the current moment.

Ice biome? Hydrogen? Radiator? Madness.

Granite floor, 3 wheezeworts, whatever gas is in the room (other than maybe chlorine), a pump and you're done :D Trickle your freshly condensed water over your press at one end of your granite floor, collect it at the other end. CO2 pipe connected to a high pressure vent within the same room can keep the room pressurised too..

Seriously over-engineering a problem does not make it troublesome - flawed designs do.

This crap is easy to set up, but so many people have deemed it "hard" that folks are starting to believe it :p 

As regards finding your oil, if you're digging a 3 wide hole you're only at most utilizing 3 dupes as a general rule - providing your storages are set to sweep only. It's a perfect early game strategy as it's also your CO2 sink in one functional hole ;) 

 

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32 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

Ice biome? Hydrogen? Radiator? Madness.

Granite floor, 3 wheezeworts, whatever gas is in the room (other than maybe chlorine), a pump and you're done :D Trickle your freshly condensed water over your press at one end of your granite floor, collect it at the other end. CO2 pipe connected to a high pressure vent within the same room can keep the room pressurised too..

Seriously over-engineering a problem does not make it troublesome - flawed designs do.

This crap is easy to set up, but so many people have deemed it "hard" that folks are starting to believe it :p 

As regards finding your oil, if you're digging a 3 wide hole you're only at most utilizing 3 dupes as a general rule - providing your storages are set to sweep only. It's a perfect early game strategy as it's also your CO2 sink in one functional hole ;) 

 

The ice biome is, in my case, actually on the way down to oil fields, so it was a very handy location. Nothing over engineered, but simply taking the oppertunity. Arguably hydrogen was a bit much, but it will ensure I can build a second, a third and maybe even a 4th press. You know, so that I maybe can get enough plastic production to effectively replace hundreds of tiles and ladder pieces. Anyway, that was not the point. The point was you assuming too much: I have my own experience with the oil related buildings and mechanics. If you want to blame me for over engineering it, than that's fine. From my own experience I first planted it down without cooling, had my plastic immediately molten down and the building getting overheated. I think it's reasonable to think in such a case "I need to cool the everliving f*ck out of this.". Now I have a setup allowing for expansion.

The issue is the distance between your base and the oil fields is that is something you will have to cover in one shape or another, and not just with digging. Either you build the press close to the oil fields, which means your dupes have to go all the way down to collect the plastic. Or, you build it close to your base and have to pump up the oil/petroleum, building probably the longest sections of pipes. Difficult? No, of course not. A nuisance and a real pain the butt? Yeah, I'd say so.

I don't see how a CO2 hole, on its own, is a convenient excuse to go after oil. You don't dig CO2 holes all the way to the bottom. You dig it low enough so that you don't have to worry about it until you get gas generators and then collect all the CO2 in the same hole and scrub it. That's at best all the way down the dirt biome. Now, if there are resources I need further below and even more important geysers, then it might be worthwhile to further dig down to the oil. But with bad luck there's nothing worth the time or even worse everything valuable is further up the map, you are spending time on that and not digging out your CO2 hole.

Also again: everything is easy to set up in oni. easy and difficult are subjective, but compared to any other thing in oni, this more difficult by an order of magnitude. Nothing else requires this. Also, I'm not sure if trickling water is still bugged and cools that much down it is effectively an exploit. Which I don't like to rely on: exploits are going to be removed sooner or later. But I can be wrong and they might have patched it appropiately by now.

Finally, it's not the challenge that is problematic. It's fun to do. But the current biggest challenge -and I think you do agree that it is currently the biggest challenge of the game- is arguably giving the lowest reward.

Edited by Guest
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6 minutes ago, Risu said:

This math is somewhat amusing. It costs 271999.991W and 1666.666 kg of water to make a plastic tile.
 

I don't know why you insist on assuming that everything made from oil comes from an oil well.  I take a different approach.  I assume that oil wells as currently implemented are set to values that make them useless, and all my oil comes from slicksters.  I measure all oil products in slickster farts.  How many slicksterfarts to power a pet. generator for a cycle?  How many slicksterfarts per plastic tile?  If you say it fast it sounds German and very technical.  it reminds me of Slartibartfast, also.  What a guy he was.

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1 hour ago, trukogre said:

I don't know why you insist on assuming that everything made from oil comes from an oil well.  I take a different approach.  I assume that oil wells as currently implemented are set to values that make them useless, and all my oil comes from slicksters.  I measure all oil products in slickster farts.  How many slicksterfarts to power a pet. generator for a cycle?  How many slicksterfarts per plastic tile?  If you say it fast it sounds German and very technical.  it reminds me of Slartibartfast, also.  What a guy he was.

Using only slicksters the power cost of a plastic tile is 71999.99904W and theoretically 266.667 farts.
Theoretically 2880 farts to run the generator for a cycle.
 

Edited by Risu
Forgot to adjust for output mass
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3 minutes ago, SchlauFuchs said:

2880? All the slicksters int the colony together would not run a generator a cycle then...

Devs, tune please!

It'd realistically be less as the mass in each fart is relative. That number is the absolute max.
 

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2 hours ago, GrindThisGame said:

I bet this sentence has never been used before in the history of humans.

Originality is nice but it's not everything. If the revision to oil wells had happened a bit quicker this whole conversation would never have happened, so let's not forget to give Providence her due.

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