Winona : More Possible Perks

[PicklePet]

It seems to me that overall the community's reaction to Winona is a bit disappointed, and I agree that I would really like to see more from Winona. Every single character has a very unique play dynamic from their perks aside from Wilson, because he is the 'vanilla' character, Willow, because her fire immunity had to be nerfed for multiplayer, and Wes, because he is the challenge character. Personally, I feel like Winona is unfinished - whether that is because she will be edited later or because Klei is absolutely bogged down with other projects (I mean, I really thought they'd put a cap on DS but I'm incredibly pleased to see they haven't) and didn't really have the time to balance out more significant perk ideas, I'm not sure. But rather than complain and talk down this present given to us from the developers, I think it'd be nice to think up other ways she could be. Maybe that could help give Klei ideas or inspire a Winona buff mod.
Please try to keep balance in mind. If you think of a strong perk, try to think of a weakness to match it. However I may add unbalanced/insignificant/unfinished seeming thoughts to the list for the sake of brainstorming - perhaps they will lead to another idea.

Possible Perks:

• Tape can mend armor and tools(except thulcite)
• More tools?
• Able to mend burnt structures with just tools or small cost
• Efficient Builder: Half cost to craft items [@TheKingofSquirrels]
• Efficient Demolisher: Gets full refund of materials when hammering a structure. [@superlucas1231] (with a unique item hammer, like Lucy?) [Kuirem]
• Can see a torch size radius in the dark without a light, but will still get attacked by Charlie?
• Mass Production: Winona is able to craft multiple units of something immediately. [@Rellimarual]
• Super Worker: Winona has fast chopping, mining and/or insta-picking skills. [@CaptainCatSleeping]
• Able to hack clockwork machines? [@Lumina]
• Cardboard Box: A cheaper bundle wrap that doesn't prevent spoiling.[Kuirem] (maybe made with 1 regular papyrus and rope instead)
• Sampo: A machine that slowly produces random or chosen minor resources (rocks, flint, rot, gold, seeds, etc) [Rossum]

Feasible Flaws:

• Sanity drain from open wildfires [@TrashLord] (burning factory PTSD)
• Reduced sanity boosts from equipment [TrashLord] (doesn't care for dapperness)
• Sanity can only be restored by 'working' (picking, chopping, and/or crafting)
• Loses sanity from breaking tools. [superlucas1231]
• Hostile mobs have stronger aggro to Winona [superlucas1231]
• Extra hunger drain [superlucas1231]
• The Black Lung: Gets reduced healing effects from eating & sleeping[ShadowDuelist] (early factories had poor health conditions)

[PicklePet]

" I don't think it's that OP. She can't craft Clockwork machines, she can only hack existing ones, so it's not really that powerful because eventually they would all die. She could repair the existing ones tho, but they would be useless against hound waves and giants.

I have two ideas of how this could work:

a) They act like pigs, that follow you and protect you.

b) You can control them remotely. Your character is vulnerable, while she sits down with a controller  and you play as a rook, or a bishop, or a knight. "

-TheKingofSquirrels
(sorry I don't know how to throw in quotes from a closed thread)

[PicklePet]

"I like the idea of her being able to make stuff in masse as a regular-medium perk. But I like the clockworks tinkering thing more as a lategame special thing.
How about if besides being able to befriend/hack active clockworks with one gear, she could also make them? the clockworks would cost more than what they drop, and they would have their aggresive stance, except for her that can befriend them.

I'd probably remove the rook because of griefing capabilities, but she could perfectly be able to make knights (alchemy) and bishops (shadow manipulator) essentially being able to leave clockworks in specific areas of the map that you want. For gameplay purposes, a recently made clockwork would probably be friendly for half a day once created before going aggresive and requiring an extra gear for friendship.

-"Thats too op!" if each knight costs 2 gears to make and a doodad, a bishop costs 3 gears, purple gem and 2 nightmare fuels,  and one to keep as friends every half a day, it's not OP given how much griding you'd have to make before making them.
-"You could use bishops to kill bosses! thats OP!" Again, it'd require a lot of ruins raiding, grinding, and you get a mob that could become aggresive towards you at any point. Ever played with wickerbottom's tentacle fields?
-"Anyone can make repaired clockworks in the ruins and they don't have a time limit of friendship" Also anyone can befriend spiders with a spider hat, and everyone can quickly destroy a forest by hiring a few piggies or running around bearger. Its not the point, you could make something different which is repopulate clockworks in specific areas, and if needed, befriend them.

To compensate any "good" perk she gets I've been thinking that early 20th century factories didn't always have the best health conditions for their workers, and many ended with health issues because of that. Perhaps she could get 50% health from all health sources (healing items, healing food, 50% longer to restore health sleeping, etc). It may sound too crippling, but its manageable if you think about it: you just need more healing stuff, and would make her less suited for direct combat."

-ShadowDuelist

[PicklePet]

"Honestly, I can see how see how Winona can become better:

160 Hp

200 Hunger

200 San

+Gets more items off from natural resources (I.E. Berries, grass, twigs, etc.), maybe something like a extra pinecone and a extra log per each tree harvest.

+Gets the "Normal" amount of items for destroying structures (I.E. Pig houses, bunny houses, etc.)

+Tape can repair anything that can be broken (I.E. Wicker's books, Wiggy's Helm, Pickaxe, Thermstone, etc.)

-Has a bigger hunger drain (1.25-1.5) and takes 1.5 the dmg from everything

-Loses san from breaking tools

-Hostile mobs follow her longer/harder to shake off."

 

-superlucas1231

[JohnWatson]

klei will never change winona

[PicklePet]

2 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

klei will never change winona

Okay then. I maintain that this thread can be used to brainstorm a mod, which hopefully one day if no one else implements, I shall, once I learn how to code properly. Going forward I think I may remove comments that do not add/discuss ideas, because I would like for readers to not have to sift through other comments.

[JohnWatson]

8 hours ago, PicklePet said:

Okay then. I maintain that this thread can be used to brainstorm a mod, which hopefully one day if no one else implements, I shall, once I learn how to code properly. Going forward I think I may remove comments that do not add/discuss ideas, because I would like for readers to not have to sift through other comments.

well written and thought-out response my lad

[Kuirem]

On 20/9/2017 at 5:57 PM, JohnWatson said:

klei will never change winona

I don't see why not although I doubt they would add new perks/flaws more likely try to balance what she has unless they plan to make big change of all characters perk (like the Strange New Powers patch).

That's some interesting suggestions anyway although some seems too strong and/or don't really fit Winona :

Possible Perks:

• Tape can mend armor : Might be broken depending on the material for stuff like Thulecite Armors. That could be easily resolved by making it unusable on Thulecite because "Even I can't figure how to repair this"
• More tools? : A better Hammer for the Efficient Demolisher perk? 
• Able to mend burnt structures with just tools? : Not a bad idea either, destroying and rebuilding a burnt base can be annoying. I would still make it require part of the materials at least though.
• Efficient Builder: Half cost to craft items [@TheKingofSquirrels] : Too strong.
• Efficient Demolisher: Gets full refund of materials when hammering a structure. [@superlucas1231] : This one could be good, make it easier for her to move a base and pig/bunny villages.
• Can see a torch size radius in the dark without a light, but will still get attacked by Charlie? : I hardly see how it fits the character..
• Mass Production: Winona is able to craft multiple units of something immediately. [@Rellimarual] : That's more or less what her actual perk does but I wouldn't mind if it could be made in a way that you save some clicks.
• Super Worker: Winona has fast chopping, mining and/or insta-picking skills. [@CaptainCatSleeping] : Doesn't really fit the "factory worker" style.
• Able to hack clockwork machines? [@Lumina] : While the idea is interesting I would more see it on some kind of mad scientist character (Wilson anyone?) than a Factory Worker but it still kind of fit. Bishop could indeed be OP though because of their ranged attack.

Feasible Flaws:

• Sanity drain from open wildfires [@TrashLord] (burning factory PTSD) : Could fit lore-wise but would hardly ever affect her unless you had the drain on campfires.
• Reduced sanity boosts from equipment [TrashLord] (doesn't care for dapperness) : Reinforce her anti-Maxwell attitude, I like it.
• Sanity can only be restored by 'working' (picking, chopping, and/or crafting) : Not a bad idea but it would limit her a bit too much to completely remove all other sanity sources.
• Loses sanity from breaking tools. [superlucas1231] : Will just force you to always keep an eye on your tool durability, not sure if it would add anything interesting to her gameplay.
• Hostile mobs have stronger aggro to Winona [superlucas1231] : Doesn't really fit her character.
• Extra hunger drain [superlucas1231] : A bit of a lazy solution since it already exist on two DST character and 2 SW.

Also an extra suggestion : Give her the ability to craft a carboard box, basically a cheaper Bundle Wrap without the infinite spoiling.

[Sasuga]

I love that Klei made a new character, but her special abilities are not very good.  Not even for new players, which is what they seem like they're aiming at.

Her tape should do more than repair clothing, as said before that's a sewing kit! And not a very good one at only 3 uses!?

I'm liking the idea that she could use the tape to repair a burnt building and get full resources from hammering.  Perhaps she can get a special hammer similar to Woody's Axe or Willow's Lighter.

[Sasuga]

On 9/20/2017 at 11:42 AM, PicklePet said:

[...] Winona. Every single character has a very unique play dynamic from their perks aside from Wilson, because he is the 'vanilla' character,[...]

I love Wilson's special ability!  He's my favorite character!

Wilson & Wickerbottom, depending on my mood.

Honestly, all the characters are great, IMO, except Winona.

Spoiler

Wilson's ability to grow a beard and build Meat Effigies easier helped me get through my first adventure!

 

[Rossum]

Possible Perk:

Sampo: The original Sampo was an artifact from a Finnish poem which was said to bring wealth to it's owner and produce things like flour, salt, and gold out of thin air. In the poem, it was crafted by a master blacksmith, stolen by a sorceress, and ultimately destroyed in the attempt to get it back.

Winona (as part of her backstory) might have gotten ahold of a broken Sampo or perhaps blueprints on it's construction. Attempting to create one (as part of the wartime effort or possibly for personal or family gain), she sought forbidden knowledge which ended with her getting sucked into the world of Don't Starve. However, she was able to partially repair or build an Incomplete Sampo which can produce resources when fueled.

It could work like the ice maker, producing things like rock, flint, seeds, rot, and maybe ice and the occasional gold coin (which can be crafted into a gold nugget once Winona gathers enough of them). It's usefulness at first would mostly be in the rock and flint which is helpful in the early game. Then, there could be a way to upgrade it (obviously using materials the Sampo itself cannot produce) that lets it produce better resources.

Or maybe it acts like an item duplicator for certain resources. Like, you set it up and it does nothing at first. Then, you put in three resource items (like rock, cut stone, twigs, seeds, rot, etc), activate it like a crock pot, and the Sampo will produce a slow but steady supply of those three items.

[PicklePet]

On 9/22/2017 at 5:37 AM, Kuirem said:

 

"Can see a torch size radius in the dark without a light, but will still get attacked by Charlie? : I hardly see how it fits the character..
 

Super Worker: Winona has fast chopping, mining and/or insta-picking skills. [@CaptainCatSleeping] : Doesn't really fit the "factory worker" style."       (for some reason I can't figure out selective quoting.   .__.;)

Yeah, I think my vein of thought was along what you said that Klei is unlikely to make significant changes to her, so I was trying to think of a way to make her 'free hit from charlie' perk a little stronger. I remember many times when  I was just starting the game I would be trying to build a torch in the darkness and I wasn't sure if my character was crafting it or not, sometimes I would (probably) reset their animation by telling them to do it again and then die. So it could be helpful to newbies in that respect?

I can see that it's a loose connection, but I was thinking design wise a lot of these potential perks are utility based - like instant stack crafting. So it fits in that vein, that this is the character you play if you want to take out some of the tedium of the game. (And I think the insta-picking mod is fairly popular, so I'm sure its fans would love a way to have that in a non-modded server)

[ZorrerTheZmith]

I like the ideas of her not caring about dapperness and black lung.

About fires, maybe she could lose sanity when near fires at daytime? It would fit the lore and allow her to stay near a campfire at night. The problem would be using endothermic fires to cool down in summer. Accepting fires at night could be explained by the likes of "I don´t like it, but you gotta do what you gotta do".

Personally, I just would like to see more uses to her Trusty Tapes.