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Pumps create steam from nothing


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No, I run at ultramax speed. Fastest mode + ctrl-U
 

I run windows 10 developer build. My CPU (this is my laptop) is i7-6560 (a special edition CPU only used in HP Spectre x360 2016 limited edition with OLED screen). 16GB RAM. Iris Pro 540x2 (special edition of integrated graphics with twice the eDRAM and Texel engines of the normal version).

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3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

No, I run at ultramax speed. Fastest mode + ctrl-U

I'm getting these same results PROVIDING I start the test at a slow speed for the first pump animation... Very, very odd.

If i try and run the test at any other speed, it always gives a differing result.

i.e. sometimes zero steam is emitted, sometimes steam appears in both chambers, different values of steam:water.... Bizarre. All run off the same load, just different game speeds.

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2 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

This is gonna sound cheaty, but could the same results happen with larger amounts? If so people could heat water up, drop it in a room and repeat this for essentially a large boost in water (Provided you can heat it)

It seems to be very, very temperature specific - for the pumps output to boil the water, it'd be near impossible to replicate in a normal game. 

Only reason i'm even looking at this is because it's odd that I get different findings every time, compared to @Saturnusgetting fixed results.

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1 minute ago, BlueLance said:

Yeah i wasnt expecting it to be possible, but it is a weird bug/glitch so at least being able to replicate it helps....for one of us XD haha

What material are you building the pumps out of and the vents? It could be that is whats causing the variation?

Has to be gold for the pumps because of the temperature - vents shouldn't matter, but gold as well i'd imagine.

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31 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

This is gonna sound cheaty, but could the same results happen with larger amounts? If so people could heat water up, drop it in a room and repeat this for essentially a large boost in water (Provided you can heat it)

You mean like this? Yes, two connected chambers run fine. Only loss is the polluted water slowly evaporating into polluted oxygen but it generates 20kg/s steam (about the same total amount of water of 4.5 steam geysers) happily in my set up, and on my system at least.

I know it looks weird but it runs fine.

Note: I did try to put the vent in the same room as the pump but that at least doesn't seem to work, so you need two connected chambers.

2017-09-18 (5).png

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Ok I have manage to recreate the bug. Both with losing and not losing the polluted water.

If you have got the Bug going and stop the pump and restart the pump, you will start to lose polluted water. 

If you have starting to lose polluted water you just run it dry and after pump started you add the water.

Steam

Here I created a system were you will not get any polluted oxygen. It seams like the steam is created in left lower corner. I am pumping from up to down and down to up to created endless loop.

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Interesting race condition there. Would have to narrow down where it is occurring
but it seems to relate to the pipe contents being moved from storage to the pipe in
the same sim tick as it would cause pipe damage from state change.

Because the packet is still residing in the pump the conduit didn't receive the event.
I'll do some code tests later to find out what is at fault.

Edit: Actually it might be that the pump is interacting with the conduit at the wrong time.
Dumping the contents of a "bad" conduit after it already moved to the next cell.
This would be where the mass creation would come from.
 

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One more thing to create steam you just have to be over the steam state of the liquid. So for water if you are on 101 C on the water it will come out as steam.

And if you are on -182 C for liquid oxygen you will create oxygen gas :)

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And it is actually possible to create it in the game with out debug mode. just lots of prep work to do. it kinda prone to failure and breaks all the fun in game. But it was interesting bug :)

So any one feels like it is a bug worth reporting or care to report it? 

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I noticed on liquid chlorine that liquids now don't need to reach temperature 5 C beyond boiling point to start evaporating, they start losing mass and generate the gas in surrounding tiles right above the boiling point and the rate just increases with temperature. Since 120 C polluted water is beyond boiling point, this can be a consequence of this new (?) mechanic.

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On 9/18/2017 at 8:22 AM, Saturnus said:

I did another run and stitched a screenshot together so you can see all the outcomes.

Again. I painted in 4 tiles 800kg PW at 393.15K on top of the pump. Note, that it has to be a vacuum first.

That's 3200kg PW coming into the system.

Result is 6 tiles of steam at 533.3kg which equal ~3200kg
And you can see the output water on the right also equal ~3200kg

 

According to my tooltip info, polluted water vaporizes at 392.5K.  So you're painting in water that is already above the vaporization point.   However, it IS odd that you're getting your water back in addition to the steam.

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3 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

According to my tooltip info, polluted water vaporizes at 392.5K.  So you're painting in water that is already above the vaporization point.   However, it IS odd that you're getting your water back in addition to the steam.

If you heat up polluted water with an aquatuner for example, it normally boils at about 122.4C. Try painting, or heating up to, 120C polluted water yourself. In any other situation, it doesn't boil or generate steam at 120C at all.

It only boils because of the interaction with the pump which is, or should be, impossible. And as I also mention, it doesn't create dirt. Normally when you boil polluted water to steam, it leaves behind 1% of it's mass in dirt which eventually will have to be removed which is why practical boilers are so difficult to design as they need a way to service them.

But here there's no dirt created so even if it didn't create steam from nothing, and thereby break the fundamental rule of conversation of mass, it would still be vastly superior to any other boiler design there is because it makes steam at a lower temperature than is possible by any other method, and it doesn't create dirt which means it can be used in closed maintenance free designs.

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8 hours ago, Saturnus said:

If you heat up polluted water with an aquatuner for example, it normally boils at about 122.4C. Try painting, or heating up to, 120C polluted water yourself. In any other situation, it doesn't boil or generate steam at 120C at all.

It only boils because of the interaction with the pump which is, or should be, impossible. And as I also mention, it doesn't create dirt. Normally when you boil polluted water to steam, it leaves behind 1% of it's mass in dirt which eventually will have to be removed which is why practical boilers are so difficult to design as they need a way to service them.

But here there's no dirt created so even if it didn't create steam from nothing, and thereby break the fundamental rule of conversation of mass, it would still be vastly superior to any other boiler design there is because it makes steam at a lower temperature than is possible by any other method, and it doesn't create dirt which means it can be used in closed maintenance free designs.

I completely forgot about the dirt left behind.  I'll have to see if I can build something in my survival game.  The trick will be getting the water to 120c before closing it in with the pumps.

 

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2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I completely forgot about the dirt left behind.  I'll have to see if I can build something in my survival game.  The trick will be getting the water to 120c before closing it in with the pumps.

Stick an aquatuner in with each of the pumps and a thermoswitch to turn it off at 120C. They'll only be on during the initial heat up phase. And if power draw is an issue, heat up one chamber at a time. With the cooling power from the aquatuners during heat up phase you can cool a pool of water for the necessary cool plate to condense the steam on. Should be fairly easy to set up actually. If you set it up like @NanoD showed above, you wouldn't even have to worry about polluted oxygen in the steam room.

EDIT: Note that since you can create surplus power from water by building 100% efficient electrolyzers, you can have it self-powering. In fact, since this exploit can basically create infinite amounts of water you can have infinite power as well. The only "problem" would be the massive amounts of "useless" clean oxygen. :D

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