Summary of Rework Ideas for Winona

[HamBatter]

1 hour ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I thought this was changed in DST so that the damage is still absorbed even if the armor breaks.

This is how it works.

[DatShadowJK]

16 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Idea 2 (many people): She can hack Clockwork Monsters. Either befriending them like pigs or, and this a little bit more out there: her character sits down and uses a controller, becoming idle and vulnerable, and the player plays as a rook, or a bishop, or a knight.

It fits with her engineer character and would actually be a lot of fun.

Are you sure you wan't something that totally wasn't already in the game?

[Lumina]

7 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

All this talk of improving Winona's perks, and here I am thinking she just needs some kind of downside (even if it's a fairly minor one). As she is now it just feels like she's stepping on Wilson's toes by being an all around character with almost no real perks.

If she has a true perk that make her more attractive, a downside is ok. In the current state, a downside will make her even less good to choose. Also, i wonder if the fact that she has the same role as wilson isn't a choice of design.

2 hours ago, DatShadowJK said:

Are you sure you wan't something that totally wasn't already in the game?

I think i was the first to suggest the idea, and the idea was "befriend clockwork monster in ruin for 1 gear instead of 3". So less cost of befriend clockwork monster (because she is more efficient to repair them).

It's fitting her theme, it's useful at end-game, it's reasonable (cost reduction, others people could do the same thing, just for more).

[Lumina]

Also, please, the idea of less cost for building/construction could seems great at first, but it's a very problematic perk.

I mean, on paper it's nice : fitting her theme and useful. But this kind of perk feels quickly more like a chore than something fun.

- people playing winona will have to build building, otherwise it's a loss of resource. Other players shouldn't build things.

- people playing winona will become mandatory in a megabase playstyle because sparing that much resource is too great to avoid

- this will limit their possibilities (why should they explore since they are needed at base when something need to be build)

 

So it's the kind of perk that risk to bring less fun than it should, even if it's good on paper. It would probably work better in single DS than DST, because in DST, in fact.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

All this talk of improving Winona's perks, and here I am thinking she just needs some kind of downside (even if it's a fairly minor one). As she is now it just feels like she's stepping on Wilson's toes by being an all around character with almost no real perks.

Although when it comes to the tape discussion, I think it would be a lot better if it was able to repair all armor and tools, but only once.

Well the problem is, how can she have a downside when she has no upside (or any significant one). If they gave her any kind of disadvantage at this point, she'll be worse than Wilson.

However, if they did change her character and made her better, I did think of a good downside. She's a mechanical builder, right? Well maybe everything that's magic really messes with her head (so double negative insanity points, whenever she uses magical items).

[TheKingofSquirrels]

4 hours ago, DatShadowJK said:

Are you sure you wan't something that totally wasn't already in the game?

It's not on the surface, and also, imagine befriending more than one at once. 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

Also, please, the idea of less cost for building/construction could seems great at first, but it's a very problematic perk.

I mean, on paper it's nice : fitting her theme and useful. But this kind of perk feels quickly more like a chore than something fun.

- people playing winona will have to build building, otherwise it's a loss of resource. Other players shouldn't build things.

- people playing winona will become mandatory in a megabase playstyle because sparing that much resource is too great to avoid

- this will limit their possibilities (why should they explore since they are needed at base when something need to be build)

 

So it's the kind of perk that risk to bring less fun than it should, even if it's good on paper. It would probably work better in single DS than DST, because in DST, in fact.

Yeah, I get you, that's why I said it was problematic. 

[DatShadowJK]

11 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

It's not on the surface

And clockworks wouldn't do no good on surface. They could get zapped by lightning and turn on you (tested in underground by pseudoscience station) and imagine having a rook at base and you accidentally attacking it or something else! It'd ram all of your chests and loots. The broken clockworks should just have only 1 gear to repair like @Lumina said. In the ruins the clockworks are way better as there is the ancient guardian and fuel-weaver and all that dank stuff. Clockworks won't help against Deerclops and such because they are EASY to kite

[TheKingofSquirrels]

21 hours ago, DatShadowJK said:

And clockworks wouldn't do no good on surface. They could get zapped by lightning and turn on you (tested in underground by pseudoscience station) and imagine having a rook at base and you accidentally attacking it or something else! It'd ram all of your chests and loots. The broken clockworks should just have only 1 gear to repair like @Lumina said. In the ruins the clockworks are way better as there is the ancient guardian and fuel-weaver and all that dank stuff. Clockworks won't help against Deerclops and such because they are EASY to kite

I disagree.

Clockworks for fighting bosses or even hound waves, is obviously a bad idea, but there's plenty of uses that I can think of right now on the surface.

Bishop would be incredible for hunting birds or rabbits.

Rooks would be incredible for wood gathering, and some low level PVE scenarios.

Knights, would be kinda useless, but not anymore useless than a Maxwell clone. 

[ShadowDuelist]

6 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Clockworks for fighting bosses or even hound waves, is obviously a bad idea, but there's plenty of uses that I can think of right now on the surface.

Bishop would be incredible for hunting birds or rabbits.

Rooks would be incredible for wood gathering, and some low level PVE scenarios.

Knights, would be kinda useless, but not anymore useless than a Maxwell clone. 

I still love this idea but feel this perk would quickly fade away in the surface as the default amount of clockworks is usually small, and nobody really wants them alive: they are the first source of gears/purple gems at hand.

If she could do this thing of befriending any robot, to be a sustainable perk, she could also be able to craft new knights. Knights are decently tanky, and having 3 or 4 as friends would make short work of killing many random mobs. I didn't include the other clockworks because rooks could easily destroy your base entirely if held as pets, and bishops would add new ranged fight capabilities in the surface exclusive to Winona, which in DST is clearly a balance issue.

[DatShadowJK]

9 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Rooks would be incredible for wood gathering, and some low level PVE scenarios.

But imagine bringing one to base.. It follows you were you go, so imagine it turning on you during the middle of the day by time or being too far from a lightning rod (then get struck by lightning and it'll aggro) and chasing you down and destroying all of your precious base materials

[TheKingofSquirrels]

12 hours ago, DatShadowJK said:

 (then get struck by lightning and it'll aggro)

I've never heard of this before. 

The clockworks on the surface are always on agro mode, so I don't really understand what you mean

[DatShadowJK]

11 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I've never heard of this before. 

The clockworks on the surface are always on agro mode, so I don't really understand what you mean

Lets say you befriend a clockwork...

If it gets struck by lightning, it will be hostile towards players again. I have tested this with broken clockworks. Don't argue that broken clockworks are different, klei will make sure they are similar

[brikelz]

Stack crafting seems neat but it should only be possible at the crafting station. So she could only craft single items when she isn't at base. Cause y'know factory workers use machines.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

On 18/09/2017 at 4:19 AM, ShadowDuelist said:

I still love this idea but feel this perk would quickly fade away in the surface as the default amount of clockworks is usually small, and nobody really wants them alive: they are the first source of gears/purple gems at hand.

If she could do this thing of befriending any robot, to be a sustainable perk, she could also be able to craft new knights. Knights are decently tanky, and having 3 or 4 as friends would make short work of killing many random mobs. I didn't include the other clockworks because rooks could easily destroy your base entirely if held as pets, and bishops would add new ranged fight capabilities in the surface exclusive to Winona, which in DST is clearly a balance issue.

I think being able to craft them is a bit too OP and also, especially in multiplayer sessions, someone using up all the world's gears to build a personal army of robots would be kind of annoying. 

Rooks...I can see how they could potentially be used for grieffing, but like you said, there wouldn't be many in the world. As for Bishops, I have no issues with the range fighting, because they are much slower than players, so they can be easily outran. 

[CaptainCatSleeping]

Hi????

[GentlemanFridge]

I personally like the tape being able to repair tools and armour alongsides clothes, but I think it should repair less % than the sewing kit does for clothes. Otherwise, the sewing kit would become obsolete. Not sure about it being able to repair magic items though. I guess duct tape repairs anything, but I would rather have all magic items be able to be"repaired" with nightmarefuel.

Her being to dodge one Charlie hit and crafting faster can stay, in my opinion. Although I wouldn't be too devastated if either were to be replaced.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 hour ago, CaptainCatSleeping said:

I don't want to derail the whole topic so I'll just state my opinion on that real quick and end it there. You need to understand that Winny is designed and targeted at noobies who just bought dst on xbox. It is not so much for experienced players. Thus it is not really Klei's fault that she is such a character because she is meant to be such a character. However, I do understand your sentiments, but please understand that Klei is also trying their best to make the game a fun experience for all.

Ok, so here's how I feel about this:

A) I don't actually believe that's the reason. If they had, she would appear before Wilson in the selection menu. And her look is a bit...Not vanilla enough to be an introductory character to the game. For example, there's nothing about Wilson in his look that immediately screams scientist, and same thing for Willow. Wilson and Willow are the introductory characters, and therefor their appearance have a very standard "boy" and "girl" look. It's not until later characters, that their look becomes more unique and reflective of their character. 

Secondly, as all characters are unlocked, I'm pretty sure noob players will click characters that look on a surface level more interesting...Like Webber or WX-78.

B) Did we actually need that? When we already have characters that are good, or even better for noobs. Willow for example, I would say is the best for starters, her lighter being a life saver for newcomers). I used to play with someone, who was quite bad at the game, and his favourite character was Willow for that very reason. Wilson I would say is also pretty good for newcomers, as it gives you some sort of preparation for Winter (which most noobs wouldn't know about it or be prepared for).

C) Following what I said in B. How exactly is Winona great for noobs again, or better for noobs than Willow or Wilson? The free one hit from Charlie won't really save you from a long night if you don't have a torch. The crafting quicker things doesn't make any significant difference. And the Mending Tape is not all that special. 

D) Why do people keep calling her Winny? Please don't, I'm hoping Winnie actually gets introduced some day. 

[FreyaMaluk]

On 15.9.2017 at 3:50 PM, TheKingofSquirrels said:

So the post Winona confirmed perks , had a lot of people talking about how they hate the new character and how they could make it better.

And there were some users that came up with some really good ideas, but as the post is 218 replies long, I thought I'd summarise and make it easier for the devs to see them.

Idea 1 (by Rellimarual): "she turn three stacks of cut grass into 40 rope instantly? That would be great"

Basically, can instantly craft multiple refined items at once (such as rope, boards, cut stone, papyrus, marbles beans).

So for example, 40 logs can instantly be crafted into 10 Boards. 

This was, from what I could tell, the most liked idea. It fits with her building character and, unlike the the 0.5 second cut it takes for her to craft (which is made redundant with characters like Maxwell and Woodie, who can level forests in seconds) it would actually be a great time saver for base construction. 

Idea 2 (many people, but started by Lumina): She can hack Clockwork Monsters. Either befriending them like pigs or, and this a little bit more out there: her character sits down and uses a controller, becoming idle and vulnerable, and the player plays as a rook, or a bishop, or a knight.

It fits with her engineer character and would actually be a lot of fun.

Idea 3 (edit) Being able to repair armour and weapon with mending tape. 

I also mentioned the idea that she could craft things for less resources, but there were some issues with that.

I like ideas 1 (ty @Rellimaural) and 3

Last idea I consider dangerously OP. As mentioned before that ability with construction amulet would be just broken.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, WishIHadAFridge said:

I personally like the tape being able to repair tools and armour alongsides clothes, but I think it should repair less % than the sewing kit does for clothes. Otherwise, the sewing kit would become obsolete. 

that's probably not true. unless you play in a Winona's solo world.

[JohnWatson]

i think winona should be able to lose moisture at twice the normal rate

[Dorozco]

14 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

i think winona should be able to lose moisture at twice the normal rate

why?

[JohnWatson]

12 hours ago, Dorozco said:

why?

because i reasonably believe that adding the addition of the additonal feature that i've suggested to add to winona's perks will buff her from her current state

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, JohnWatson said:

because i reasonably believe that adding the addition of the additonal feature that i've suggested to add to winona's perks will buff her from her current state

I think the question is why "thematically" might this idea fit with her character skill set?

[Dorozco]

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I think the question is why "thematically" might this idea fit with her character skill set?

That's what I'm looking for