Solve (almost) all Your problems with liquid oxygen. GG easy

[zsaciku]

Cannot grow plants because the base is too hot? -> Cool it with liquid oxygen.

No water for electrolizers? -> Convert P oxygen to liquid oxygen.

Water geyser too hot? -> Cool it with liquid oxygen

Slimelung? -> Liquid oxygen

For everything else, use Your father's mastercard.

Jokes aside, here's my setup which provides net cooling, which can achieve all of the above simultaneously:

it's only 12x11 blocks (2 floors high)

The bottom part is the hydrogen cooler room also filled with hydrogen. 4 wheezeworts provide enought cooling to keep the thermo regulaters cool AND EVEN MORE, this room is slowly getting cooler as time passes (so I used granite tiles, to cool the base). The pump in the middle is used only to remove the gas from the chamber before the system is filled with pure hydrogen. Pretty straightforward, been done by many ppl.

The upper room ( thanks to Brothgar for his experiments)

The airlocks and wire bridges ( both from wolframite) are used to transfer the heat between the cool hydrogen in the middle and warm gas (preferably polluted oxygen) on the sides. For safety reasons I shut the pump down when the hydrogen in the inner part goes below -200C.

All walls should be abyssalite here, even between this and the cooling room. Also use abyssalite for gas and water pipes. Don't bother with insulated tiles.

Side note: If You put an abyssalite tile in the middle of a wire bridge, it will be cooled down, so don't do that   It's possibly a bug.

Needs a couple cycles till the hydrogen cools down, but after that, it can produce about 300-400g of clear liquid oxygen /sec. Depending on input gas temperature. Maybe we could use some precooling?

I made some experiments with different heights and in this case, bigger isn't better. The initial cooling phase is much longer and output is also lower for some reason (also higher power consumption because higher towers produce liquid O2 constantly, while the little dudedoes it periodically).

I wanted to use hydro switches for the pumps to save power, but there's no room to place it ( if I place it above the pump I need 2000 Kg of liquid oxygen to set it off ), so there's still room for optimalization.

Side note 2: I have a separate room for hydrogen storage with 1 pump always on, this is to ensure that in the cooler room (with the worts) is always at max hydrogen pressure, since worts still eat some hydrogen on save/load. I also use this storage to fill all hydrogen systems.

If You have ideas which could make this "machine" even more efficient, please don't hesitate to share it

Additionally, if You have any questions, post them below.

Here are some additional pics for the setup:

 

[Kasuha]

All of the net cooling comes from the wheezeworts, but that's fine. Your contraption looks nice. One thing I don't like on it is that you're wasting a lot of power, first because you're running a gas pump to get all the released hydrogen back into the pipe, and second because your regulators are processing lower mass packets than they could. You spend 960 W and get net  liquid oxygen production that could be achieved with 360 W (or rather, 150% of what could be achieved using single 240 W regulator) using a closed loop pipe radiator. But if power efficiency isn't your concern, then you're fine.

 

[Reaniel]

3 hours ago, zsaciku said:

Cannot grow plants because the base is too hot? -> Cool it with liquid oxygen.

No water for electrolizers? -> Convert P oxygen to liquid oxygen.

Water geyser too hot? -> Cool it with liquid oxygen

Slimelung? -> Liquid oxygen

For everything else, use Your father's mastercard.

 

Couldn't agree more  (except for the last one lol)

Right now, I'm using liquid oxygen drip controlled by a liquid valve to regulate the temperature in my main base area, and sending the rest to my steam geysers room.  I'm still trying to find out the best balance for my production, but spamming liquid oxygen around really makes you go "heat death?  what heat death lol?" compare to using electrolyzers.

 

[midjones]

On 9/3/2017 at 7:16 PM, Kasuha said:

All of the net cooling comes from the wheezeworts, but that's fine. Your contraption looks nice. One thing I don't like on it is that you're wasting a lot of power, first because you're running a gas pump to get all the released hydrogen back into the pipe, and second because your regulators are processing lower mass packets than they could. You spend 960 W and get net  liquid oxygen production that could be achieved with 360 W (or rather, 150% of what could be achieved using single 240 W regulator) using a closed loop pipe radiator. But if power efficiency isn't your concern, then you're fine.

@Kasuha Yes I've heard as well, from lifegrowski, that a radiator based system is the most efficient at converting polluted oxygen to liquid oxygen (even more than a "hydrogen bubbler" system, which suffers from gases getting destroyed from overpressure)

I couldn't find a good example of how to build a closed loop pipe radiator system, do you happen to have a good example you can link me to? Either a YouTube video or forum post with screenshots/description how to set it up would be awesome.  Hopefully one that is reasonable enough to build in a real game without debug mode.

[Kasuha]

2 hours ago, midjones said:

@Kasuha Yes I've heard as well, from lifegrowski, that a radiator based system is the most efficient at converting polluted oxygen to liquid oxygen (even more than a "hydrogen bubbler" system, which suffers from gases getting destroyed from overpressure)

I couldn't find a good example of how to build a closed loop pipe radiator system, do you happen to have a good example you can link me to? Either a YouTube video or forum post with screenshots/description how to set it up would be awesome.  Hopefully one that is reasonable enough to build in a real game without debug mode.

Here's a design I was quite happy with in AU, it probably works as well in current release as heat management did not change substantially. Now I would probably put the thermal switch right into the pool of condensed oxygen though instead of a separate room, that would provide more reliable feedback about temperature in the pipe together with buffer effect coming from the pool.

 

[midjones]

13 hours ago, Kasuha said:

Here's a design I was quite happy with in AU, it probably works as well in current release as heat management did not change substantially. Now I would probably put the thermal switch right into the pool of condensed oxygen though instead of a separate room, that would provide more reliable feedback about temperature in the pipe together with buffer effect coming from the pool.

 

That looks awesome, am definitely going to try out that system, thanks!  Did you need to use any special materials in this setup (wolframite, granite)?

As far as I can tell, it looks like there's largely these common approaches to liquifying PO into liquid O2.

 a) classic hydrogen bubbler (beowulf) system
 b) radiator system
 c) cooled hydrogen gas in adjacent room to PO, exchanging temperature using wolframite doors & wire bridges
 d) cooled liquid oxygen system, needs a bubbler system to be primed
 e) aquatuner-based system

Have you had a chance to try designing an aquatuner-based system?  I'm hopeful that it might give us even more efficient throughput than radiator system.

[joelzhl]

Have you tried pumping slime lung PO2 into your system to test if it can actually kill off all the germs? I've found that even in the LO2 state, the germs are not dying off because only the "dying in solid" modifier is in effect, the temp modifier is simply ignored.

[Kasuha]

2 minutes ago, midjones said:

 Did you need to use any special materials in this setup (wolframite, granite)?

All the logical choices - radiator pipe inside the chamber granite, rest of the pipe abyssalite, thermo switch wolframite, walls abyssalite, regulator gold amalgam, the rest is irrelevant.

6 minutes ago, midjones said:

Have you had a chance to try designing an aquatuner-based system?

I haven't tried it yet.

[midjones]

 

3 hours ago, Kasuha said:

All the logical choices - radiator pipe inside the chamber granite, rest of the pipe abyssalite, thermo switch wolframite, walls abyssalite, regulator gold amalgam, the rest is irrelevant.

I haven't tried it yet.

I've tried to reproduce your system in my game. Couple of questions for ya

 - Is it expected to take more than 20 cycles to get hydrogen to -200?  So far it's been 20 cycles and i'm at -110 degrees.

- in the thermo room, what is the gas bridge intended for? I connected it the same way as in your diagram, but i'm not seeing any hydrogen go through that part (see arrow). maybe i'm doing something wrong with it.

- why don't we surround the Polluted Oxygen chamber with insulated tiles to keep the cold in? why would that not help

PS: I know i haven't finished the room at the bottom, ignore that. Just trying to get liquid oxygen production working before I worry about heating it back up.

[Reaniel]

The tiles around the chamber is made with Abyssalite, and you can use just the regular tiles to save on material.  If you use anything other than Abyssalite, you will leak heat and slow down the process.

The gas bridge there is actually used in conjunction with a switch of some kind.  Basically, it is to pull the hydrogen gas along and keep the loop going when your regulator is turned off, usually when the gas reaches certain temperature.  

For example, my setup has the thermo switch set at -200C, and my machines will power down at that temperature.  However, having gas bridges connected to the input of the regulators allows the setup to keep pulling the gas along instead of having it grind to a halt.

[Lifegrow]

22 minutes ago, midjones said:

 

I've tried to reproduce your system in my game. Couple of questions for ya

 - Is it expected to take more than 20 cycles to get hydrogen to -200?  So far it's been 20 cycles and i'm at -110 degrees.

- in the thermo room, what is the gas bridge intended for? I connected it the same way as in your diagram, but i'm not seeing any hydrogen go through that part (see arrow). maybe i'm doing something wrong with it.

- why don't we surround the Polluted Oxygen chamber with insulated tiles to keep the cold in? why would that not help

 

-Takes a long time to prime with one thermo regulator, depending on how large your radiator is and how much hydrogen you're trying to cool. I get my hydrogen to target temp before introducing PO2.

-Bridge is to allow the hydrogen to bypass the thermo regulator when the thermo switch toggles it off. One packet of hydrogen will sit in the thermo reg, the rest will bypass via the bridge and allow the gas to continue circulating.

-As mentioned above, they're normal tiles, but made out of abyssalite, meaning they have near to zero heat dissipation. 

Good luck  

 

[Kasuha]

4 hours ago, midjones said:

 - Is it expected to take more than 20 cycles to get hydrogen to -200?  So far it's been 20 cycles and i'm at -110 degrees.

I don't want to do complete math but it feels fine. Don't forget you're cooling 1 kg of hydrogen, 2 kg of polluted oxygen, and 5 kg of granite in each tile. 

Some tiles in your replica are very bright, do you use some mod or have you built it in debug mode? If that comes from debug mode, you may have disrupted their structure by painting some gas over them.

The small chamber with thermo switch should contain about 6-10 kg of oxygen or PO. I achieved that by building the chamber larger, then building additional tiles inside the chamber through corners. But currently I would rather place the thermometer right inside the main chamber, beside the pump with the hydro switch set up so it bathes in a small amount of liquid oxygen.

When reaching the temperature where the oxygen liquefies, watch the temperature of the hydrogen and don't let it go below temperature where oxygen freezes. The thermo switch reacts slowly, especially while the oxygen in the chamber around it isn't liquid yet.

The room at the bottom is designed to evaporate and warm up the oxygen again. It is optional but if you decide to use it. you should make vacuum in it first.

[Lifegrow]

Little vid I threw together earlier to show a few different liquid O2 systems, complete with save file so you can tinker away  

@midjones - this was for you buddy  

[zsaciku]

I tried the closed loop system, but I didn't like it for several reasons: It's not possible to measure the temperature of hydrogen in the pipes, thermo switch placed on a pipe cools down much slower then the hydrogen inside, so setting up the system requires too much effort, and even if it reaches working temperature, it's still unsafe. Also I experienced, that the bigger the room (radiator) the more time it takes to produce liquid o2. From my experience in order to liquify the o2, the whole gas mass (whole room) has to go under the dew point, which means You have to cool down the whole room, produce alot of liquid o2, then wait again till it's cooled down again.

Btw I'm not convinced that it produces more than my design ( i managed to increase the production by 77% (measured) by making it 1 block lower.

Since power is free,  output is more important for me

[Sevio]

For those who might be looking for my original Aquatuner based oxygen liquefier that Lifegrow mentioned in his videos, here's the design I made during closed testing, as it was only visible in the closed testing forum at the time. As has been mentioned before about aquatuner liquefiers, you will need a good supply of liquid oxygen made via another liquefier before you can start up this one.

Overlays in the spoiler:

Spoiler

Didn't bother taking a gas overlay screenshot because it was just a simple pipe in to the vent from the left, pipe out to the right from the pump for vacuuming the room.

Polluted oxygen can be piped into the room and gets chilled quickly by contact with the wire bridges. When the Liquid Oxygen (LOX) in the cooling room goes above -195 C, a liquid pump will send LOX through the Aquatuner, and then right back in through a vent. In a matter of seconds the entire pool of about 2100 kg LOX gets cooled by several degrees so this is quite powerful. For output there's another liquid pump in the room that will activate above a certain pressure threshold.

Heat is dumped into a room full of germy polluted water, a safety thermo switch can shut down the aqua tuner if it gets too hot in there. There's also a liquid pump hooked to a hydro switch in there that will pull the water out if it gets too full. This room is meant to be a temporary stop for polluted water on its way to your fertilizer makers or purifiers and should absorb any of the heat the Aquatuner is making.

Because heavy-watt wire is needed to power the Aquatuner, I actually ran into a bit of a problem: How do you power an Aquatuner in an insulated room without the wire bridge conducting all the heat out of the room? I ended up using a second wire bridge and constructing tiles around the ends that I wanted to connect together, then built farm tiles over top the wire bridge ends. Deconstructing the farm tiles left a vacuum inside and through the diagonal corners the heavy-watt wire could be constructed to hook them up.

[Lifegrow]

5 hours ago, zsaciku said:

I tried the closed loop system, but I didn't like it for several reasons: It's not possible to measure the temperature of hydrogen in the pipes, thermo switch placed on a pipe cools down much slower then the hydrogen inside, so setting up the system requires too much effort, and even if it reaches working temperature, it's still unsafe. Also I experienced, that the bigger the room (radiator) the more time it takes to produce liquid o2. From my experience in order to liquify the o2, the whole gas mass (whole room) has to go under the dew point, which means You have to cool down the whole room, produce alot of liquid o2, then wait again till it's cooled down again.

Btw I'm not convinced that it produces more than my design ( i managed to increase the production by 77% (measured) by making it 1 block lower.

Since power is free,  output is more important for me

I'm guessing you didnt watch to near the end of the video then

I did explain that 1x thermo regulator can only cool so much, so if your radiator is on the large size, you may want to split your radiator into seperate sections, each controlled my an individual thermo regulator. I show this in the video towards the end, where a system has 7 thermo regulators maintaining a pretty large radiator setup, each of which has their own thermo switch, etc. 

What you may have misunderstood by the closed loop setup, is that your thermo switch is looking for the smallest change in temperature, especially in a small radiator setup. Sometimes a .1degree change is all thats needed to fine tune the system so that it runs perfectly, however this is governed by a) the rate of PO2 being injected into the room, b) the amount of mass within the room, c) the length of the radiator, and d) the range of cooling - i.e. pre-cooled PO2 vs 40degree PO2 - the temperature change would be vastly different.

The video was not to say "here, look at these perfect systems" - because they're not perfect, or barely finished even  I have uploaded the correct save file now if you'd like to have a look - the one I uploaded previously was a backup (was in the wrong saves folder   )

Either way, i'm not an advocate of any of the systems. I like the theory behind the aquatuner builds - however I still have a lot to learn about them. From my limited tinkerings so far, they seem pretty powerful, but require a decent infrastructure; whereas a min-maxed Liquid O2 setup can be achieved incredibly early with just a single thermo reg, a pump, and a filter/valve.

All depends what you're trying to achieve I suppose  My video was more to show some different approaches to something maybe we've all dabbled in - but not everybody has.

[madcat1188]

"Water geyser too hot? -> Cool it with liquid oxygen"

That's what I'm trying to do, but so far I have not had much luck, except if I drop the liquid oxygen right on top of the water, but I'd rather have it go through a loop and continuously cool the water as fresh geyser water enters a tank. Is there anyway to loop liquid oxygen? I can only move liquid oxygen through abyssalite pipes, otherwise I get boiling damage to the pipes. But if I make a radiator out of abyssalite pipes there is no heat transfer, even when using non-insulated pipes.I tried with wolfamite non-insulated pipes, they pretty much exploded.

Thanks.

[Le0n1des]

Create an insulated basin of liquid O2 right above the geyser (2 tiles high, with the top layer as light as possible). Pass granite pipes with liquid O2 through the top layer (should wait for them to cool below O2 liquidation point before pushing the liquid O2 through the pipes). Place iron wire bridges through the bottom of the basin to cool the geyser.

[zsaciku]

15 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

I'm guessing you didnt watch to near the end of the video then

I did explain that 1x thermo regulator can only cool so much, so if your radiator is on the large size, you may want to split your radiator into seperate sections, each controlled my an individual thermo regulator. I show this in the video towards the end, where a system has 7 thermo regulators maintaining a pretty large radiator setup, each of which has their own thermo switch, etc. 

What you may have misunderstood by the closed loop setup, is that your thermo switch is looking for the smallest change in temperature, especially in a small radiator setup. Sometimes a .1degree change is all thats needed to fine tune the system so that it runs perfectly, however this is governed by a) the rate of PO2 being injected into the room, b) the amount of mass within the room, c) the length of the radiator, and d) the range of cooling - i.e. pre-cooled PO2 vs 40degree PO2 - the temperature change would be vastly different.

The video was not to say "here, look at these perfect systems" - because they're not perfect, or barely finished even  I have uploaded the correct save file now if you'd like to have a look - the one I uploaded previously was a backup (was in the wrong saves folder   )

Either way, i'm not an advocate of any of the systems. I like the theory behind the aquatuner builds - however I still have a lot to learn about them. From my limited tinkerings so far, they seem pretty powerful, but require a decent infrastructure; whereas a min-maxed Liquid O2 setup can be achieved incredibly early with just a single thermo reg, a pump, and a filter/valve.

All depends what you're trying to achieve I suppose  My video was more to show some different approaches to something maybe we've all dabbled in - but not everybody has.

Sorry, I didn't watch the whole vid because I was low on time and then I forgot about it

As I mentioned, I tried alot of builds, and I'm sure some of them outperform my design (which is only partly mine). The radiator needs too much effort from my point of view,  my suggestion is set up pretty easily, and after the initial cooldown, no maintenance is needed. This was the main reason I posted it, you set it up once and forget about it. In the test enviromnent it liquified more than 500g of PO2 which means 1 of these setups can handle a 100% active pump.

Do You have measured data from Your builds? It would be nice to compare power consumption and output.

Btw I will play around with it a bit more to somehow put through 1kg of gas through the thermo regulators, actually I already tested this but then the net cooling effect is lost and the temp is slowly rising, so maybe I'll reduce the regulator count to 2. This would still increase the cooling/power ratio while wort cooling would be higher since wort/regulator ratio would increase from 4/3 to 3/2.

[Lifegrow]

On 03/09/2017 at 9:08 PM, zsaciku said:

I wanted to use hydro switches for the pumps to save power, but there's no room to place it ( if I place it above the pump I need 2000 Kg of liquid oxygen to set it off ), so there's still room for optimalization.

Biggest tip I can give you for liquid oxygen builds is to use the liquid oxygen you're producing for additional cooling mass in the room... What better source of heat transfer than 500kg tiles of liquid o2? Let your pumps build up 2kg worth, then hydro switch above and skim if above 100kg or something. The efficiency difference will be huge.

I have to be honest with you, there's no chance this build could sustain 4-500g of po2/sec without gradually heating up and becoming inactive (which kind of defeats the idea of measuring something in seconds rather than per cycle), but it is none the less a nice little compact build, with a lot of mass in the room - which is key to stability.

I'd suggest precooling your PO2 with wheezeworts, letting your liquid O2 build up, priming your system - then dump what you make in 10 cycles into a tank. Divide that by 6000 and you'll have a better idea of what your throughput per sec is. These systems do heat gradually, and as you know - they take aaaages to cool down again - so 10 cycles might give you a reasonable estimate   

[zsaciku]

23 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

Biggest tip I can give you for liquid oxygen builds is to use the liquid oxygen you're producing for additional cooling mass in the room... What better source of heat transfer than 500kg tiles of liquid o2? Let your pumps build up 2kg worth, then hydro switch above and skim if above 100kg or something. The efficiency difference will be huge.

I have to be honest with you, there's no chance this build could sustain 4-500g of po2/sec without gradually heating up and becoming inactive (which kind of defeats the idea of measuring something in seconds rather than per cycle), but it is none the less a nice little compact build, with a lot of mass in the room - which is key to stability.

I'd suggest precooling your PO2 with wheezeworts, letting your liquid O2 build up, priming your system - then dump what you make in 10 cycles into a tank. Divide that by 6000 and you'll have a better idea of what your throughput per sec is. These systems do heat gradually, and as you know - they take aaaages to cool down again - so 10 cycles might give you a reasonable estimate   

Nope, it never heats up and i measured output by dumping everything into a vacuum tank, it sustained 500g/s for more than 10 cycles. PO2 was probably cool thouh.

I also tried to leave liquid o2 in the room, 4 full tiles to be exact but it didn't help at all, output was the same within margin of error. I think this is because PO2 liquifies as soon as it gets into the chamber, this is why chamber size is so important, it needs to be the smallest possible.

Also tried pumping half of the liquid o2 back into the tank, without any success

 

[zsaciku]

Ok, so I did a couple improvements:

I made the liquifying chamber 1 tile longer (which increased output by 77% (measured in test environment) and also added a feedback loop to increase hydrogen packet sizes to 1kg. - Thanks Lifegrow for the tip

Input PO2 is at 15C, it is made by morbs in water near my plants which are cooled by dripping liquid O2.

The setup easily handles 500g/s of PO2 (tested in normal world)

Here's the modified design:

Also, it's pretty easy to produce free PO2 with morbs, just make 3 toilets, force dupes to fill it with poop (to full) and prevent access to them until 3 morbs come out of each toilet (desonstruct the toilets and repeat). Fill the morb room with water so they don't move and fart a **** ton of PO2.

Here's how I did it:

http://prntscr.com/gnjyl7

[zsaciku]

Forgot to mention, I used gas pipe bridges instead of wolframite wire bridges, because they can transfer more heat