JohnWatson

long awaited meatballs nerf mod

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Lumina    1,532
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

the purpose of this is so that klei no longer needs to bother nerfing meatballs anymore

Yeah, no. The purpose is that players could play the way they want. Klei never needed to bother nerfing meatballs, they just could consider if it brings more fun to the game to change the recipe or not.

Edited by Lumina
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JohnWatson    1,808
3 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Yeah, no. The purpose is that players could play the way they want. Klei never needed to bother nerfing meatballs, they just could consider if it brings more fun to the game to change the recipe or not.

but if they ever wanted to nerf meatballs, then they don't need to

because this mod exists and they don't have to do the work anymore

you're welcome

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Lumina    1,532
2 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

but if they ever wanted to nerf meatballs, then they don't need to

Depend of what they are trying to achieve.

But i know that you are just trolling here, so i'll stop here. Still, thanks for providing options for players even for a bad reason. After all, it's not a bad things if discussions about balance leads to more mods. Just keep in mind that mods aren't a way to prevent people to suggest ideas or Klei to implement it.

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Alarsin    213

You just want to force players to play with nerfed meatballs, do you? This mod is an option, and that's why you don't like it?

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xxVERSUSxy    340

This will also provide a way to see how popular a meatball nerf would be (albeit on a smaller and hectic witness batch so-to-say).

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Lumina    1,532
25 minutes ago, Alarsin said:

You just want to force players to play with nerfed meatballs, do you? This mod is an option, and that's why you don't like it?

Me ?

No.

 

First, i don't want to nerf meatball. Nerf is when something good or too good become bad. For example, meatball giving less hunger would be a nerf, because they are the most common recipe done by players, usually. Making that you can't do the recipe with 3 ice, but only 2, isn't a nerf, because everyone keep saying that "i don't use it anyway".

Please don't make it bigger than it is.

 

Also i don't want to force anyone. I just want to not be forced, and saying that because there is a mod, no change should happen is a way to force players to shut up.


Yes, if a change is made, it will "force" all player to play with the change unless they use a mod. As any change made by devs.

 

But it's the point : change made by the devs are for all players (except if they want to use mods). So if it's better for the game to make it less easy to use ice as a filler, then changing the base game recipe should be a possibility.

Again, if it's better for the game. For the game. I'm not asking for a change because my personal taste, i'm asking for the change because i think it' better for the game.

 

So of course i think the game ''should'' change.

But i'm not saying it must happen, i'm saying that it's better if there is a choice and if it could happen. I'm confident in the devs. If for a reason or another they think it's better without the change, if they don't do the change, it's perfectly ok.

 

In the meantime  i don't see why i couldn't suggest the change.

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Alarsin    213

Nerf is when something too good is weaken. But it doesn't become bad.

But if you are talking not about your preferences, but you think this would make the game better, you must think about all players. Maybe, for players like you it seems OP. But there are beginners who might be struggling to survive during winter. And this change would probably kill them. The balance is different for different levels of skill. For people with 400+ hrs in this game meatballs might seem crazy OP,  but for players with 40 hours this can be the main source of food, y'know. 

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Lumina    1,532

You don't agree with me about the change, and it's ok.

 

But please, don't speak like i'm a selfish egoist people wanting a change because the game is too easy. I know people could have a different playstyle than mine. I know the game could be hard for some beginners. I try to have a global view when suggesting. Here i'm a favor of a change (and still disagree, nerf isn't the right world, nerf has a history about being unfair/unbalanced, not just a tuning even if the item is less good after.), that could make a thing a little less easy/abusive (depending of point of view).

But i also made suggestions that could make te game easier, and in fact it's easy to make the game easier (and the game was made easier with ANR, even if in a very small amount).

Not all change could be making things easier.

 

So, yes, some people could have hard time with this change. Why i'm still in favor of the change ?

- First, because new players usually don't know about the trick, because people don't have the idea to cook a dish with 3 ice (meatball), or 3 twigs (dragonpie). Most players will learn the trick, either by reading forum or because another player teach them.

-> So they will not miss it, and they could learn others things, even more useful things (or things working in all seasons)

- Second, because, as i explained, and you can of course totally disagree, some of the pleasure of the game is to overcome the difficulty and frustration. Of course, too much frustration isn't good. No frustration isn't good either, so it should be balanced. But a little frustration could lead to more pleasure.

 

Will it be awful for a lot of players ? We don't know. Neither me, you, or anyone else here, because we are all speaking about a limited view, as much as we can try to widen it.

And you know what ? It's ok. We are suggesting things. Either to change, not change, whatever.

We don't decide, we don't implement change.

 

Klei do is. They have data. They have a good view about what is happening to the game. They have way to make better testing than us. They have better idea about what they want to the game. And of course, they have the possibility, like they did for ANR, to make beta.

 

So even if the idea is bad, there should be test, and way to see the consequencies of the idea, bad or good.

 

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Rellimarual    1,903

 If you feel that the idea should be tested, then why do you view this mod as "trolling"? It's a way to test it as well as a kind of joke. That's what some mods are for, to change the game in a way that pleases a small number of players but that the majority doesn't want. Realistically,  since the meatball recipe goes all the way back to single player, Klei has had plenty of time to think it over and clearly sees no reason to change it or they would've done so by now.  I seriously doubt that no one has raise the issue with them before. 

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Lumina    1,532

Because the fact that it's a troll doesn't prevent the mod to be also useful ? Because it could be both. And it's why i also thank the author.

And yes, it's totally possible that no change happens. it's ok, as i said, i'm confident about Klei's decisions.

 

I just want to mention two things :

- During ANR, we got fix about old bugs, like the lantern one (with complains of players using it since a long time). Even very old things convenient for the player could change after a long time.

- Adding content could sometimes lower difficulty, for example in ANR we got overall a lowering a difficulty because most of the boss are easy to avoid, but some things, like mushroom planters, map scroll, moonlens, could make the game easier (better sanity, map sharing, easy to show important point to others players). I don't mention bundled supplies because now you need to kill bee queen, so they are harder to access, but before, they helped too. Oasis help too (good place for a base without need of gears to avoid smoldering).

So if added content make the game easier, you have a better windows to make changes that weren't possible before. If the changes are needed of course, so this change could totally be seen as not needed. Again, it's ok if it's the case :)

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Cheetos    505
Posted (edited)

Meatballs being ez pz is good for the beginners/learners of the game, anyone past that learning stage in the game is decently aware of one of the base mechanics of the game "Hunger". Past that stage Meatballs are pretty much dead to you, mostly only useful in early autumn. I'd rather Klei take a look at the overall picture of the Hunger mechanic, than tweak a recipe that would mostly have an impact directed at beginners.

(This isn't directed at John).

Edited by Cheetos
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Sinister_Fang    3,600

I'm getting a very strong, passive-aggressive feeling from this mod. But I'm certain that's the point.

But even so, this isn't going to end the meatball discussion. Sure, you can now just say "use a mod" but there are some really strong vanilla only people out there who'd like to see the change in the base game. Especially since the modding scene in DST has a fairly bad reputation...

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JohnWatson    1,808
11 minutes ago, Pedrito said:

Meatballs still op even with this mod

try the 'overpowdered' or 'crash' configuration

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Pedrito    95
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

try the 'overpowdered' or 'crash' configuration

Regenerate world option please

 

Edited by Pedrito
special anymore
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Lumina    1,532
9 hours ago, Cheetos said:

 

Meatballs being ez pz is good for the beginners/learners of the game

 

As said, most beginner will never have the idea of using 3 ice for meatball (others players said it in the first discussion topic). Meatballs are easy because they allows to use bad food as good ingredient (monster meat (one max), red mushrooms, berries...)

5 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Sure, you can now just say "use a mod" but there are some really strong vanilla only people out there who'd like to see the change in the base game.

Yes, some people will never use mods and consider a change good only when it's official.

5 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Especially since the modding scene in DST has a fairly bad reputation...

And since it's hard to find a server fitting your taste, whatever your taste is. Checking the mods isn't easy and so you can't quickly tell if you will like the modded server, so it's often easy to avoid one.

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b1b3r0n    114
Posted (edited)

Nerfing meatballs doesn't solve the problem at all, or you should also nerf bacon and eggs, fishsticks, honey ham...

 

If we're talking about gastronomy in DST, I think you should be sick if you always eat the same food. Easy mechanics that slowly kills you, and it will force players to change their habits.

I agree with you saying that some recipe are OP, but I'm not big fan of nerfing things.

 

Anyway, why not "overpowdered 2" transforming meatballs into powdercake?

 

edit: it's just a point of view, nothing against the creator

Edited by b1b3r0n
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Palecwsmalec1    789
7 hours ago, b1b3r0n said:

If we're talking about gastronomy in DST, I think you should be sick if you always eat the same food. Easy mechanics that slowly kills you, and it will force players to change their habits.

 

Warly stares from afar
"My job here is done"

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b1b3r0n    114
2 hours ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

Warly stares from afar
"My job here is done"

I know, that's why he is my favorite SW character. I really enjoyed my world with him. If I start DS again, I would probably pick him

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brbrmensch    437

genuinely laughed, thanks

although, can i suggest an option?

50\50 meatballs\lasagna to make some suffering of gambling

 

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MidrealmDM    84
17 hours ago, b1b3r0n said:

Nerfing meatballs doesn't solve the problem at all, or you should also nerf bacon and eggs, fishsticks, honey ham...

 

Exactly what I was thinking, I am not sure why Meatballs are considerd OP but some of the others are not.

- The only thing I would change would be to make some sort of penalty for overusing ice...
food item + 2 or more ice = 'weak broth' or similar
 

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Lumina    1,532
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, b1b3r0n said:

Nerfing meatballs doesn't solve the problem at all, or you should also nerf bacon and eggs, fishsticks, honey ham...

Depend of what the problem is, and depend of what is your purpose.


For example, i don't want to nerf meatballs. I want to prevent players to use too much ice (3) as a filler. Why ? Not because meatballs are op. This solve nothing about meatballs in the large number of case, anyway.

It's because ice is a bad and abundant food. It gives you very small amount of hunger and health. You obtain usually 5-6 of them for each mini glacier you mine. It doesn't spoil in the fridge. So it should be either "hard" to convert a bad and abudant food (that last that long) into something good, or you must be cautious.

For example, converting monster meat isn't hard. But you must be cautious, too many monster meat = bad food.
You can't use seeds or flowers in crockpot (bad food, abundant, but not usable as ingredients)

When you can convert 4 bads ingredients (monster meat, ice, ice, ice) into one ok dish (meatball), this is too convenient. Having to find one filler (that could be a red mushroom by the way, one bad food too) seems to me pretty reasonnable.

I must admit, i'm not a fan of some others things you can do, like bacon and egg possible with 2 monster meat and 2 eggs (so you can convert 4 monster meat in one very good dish), but at least there is a risk, here. Sure, doesn't change a lot, but still something.

 

22 hours ago, b1b3r0n said:

 

If we're talking about gastronomy in DST, I think you should be sick if you always eat the same food. Easy mechanics that slowly kills you, and it will force players to change their habits.

I agree with you saying that some recipe are OP, but I'm not big fan of nerfing things.

 

I think DST don't have enough food variety (especially in cave) to make this challenge really fun. With more food, could be possible, but some people really dislike it, and i could understand why.

 

5 hours ago, MidrealmDM said:

- The only thing I would change would be to make some sort of penalty for overusing ice...
food item + 2 or more ice = 'weak broth' or similar

Yeah, it's also an option.

Edited by Lumina
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