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long awaited meatballs nerf mod


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stop, i've made this mod for NEW PLAYERS ONLY because they like to abuse meatballs

because i think removing one crappy food option will drastically improve the challenge of game for everyone when it will really only affect those who still haven't learnt to stop relying on it

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this change will actually be postive because nerfing meatballs will allow players who rely on them to realise that there are other food options that are easier and more rewarding to have

for example, a lot of players like this almost never make baconeggs, because they think the 50% chance is a significant risk and they would rather have the 100% chance for meatballs using 1 monster meat and 3 fillers
in reality though, even with a 50% chance of turning into monster lasagna, the 4 monster meat 2 eggs recipe is a lot better than meatballs because it turns 4 of the most useless items into one of the best crockpot foods
meanwhile, meatballs need 3 fillers in the recipe, which is undeniably harder to obtain than 4 pieces of monster meat
if you want ice, you've to run around the map and mine glaciers, some people even waste entire winters on this
meatballs are best only if you have spare red caps for filler, it's really situational

when these players realise that there are better options for food like baconeggs, butterflies, jerky, or honey, then they won't even notice that the meatballs were even nerfed
this is the intention of this mod, to remove the spotlight on meatballs and shine it elsewhere, where it's actually deserved

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Reading everybody I think there is actually 2 problems:

- OP ice / monster meat recipes: bacon and eggs, dragonpie, fishsticks, meatballs... That's very good stuff, and you can abuse it

- always eating the same food: you can play all game eating the same recipe. Choose one above

 

So yes, I understand what you feel when you want to nerf. But in the early stage of the game a new player has a lot to learn, and this easy recipe will help him focuse on something else, like farms, spiders or honey, and then he discovers new recipes with these ingredients.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think newbies relies on iceballs. And dragonpie (1 dragon fruit 3 ice) is even more OP I think

 

Saying that, I remember a time we were stocking rabbits in chests... Maybe things will change with the secret stuff Klei's working on

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57 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Ice? You can get away with using just 3 sticks...

I've learned something! Thank you, I've never tried to put more than one stick, I wasn't curious enough...

 

Woodie likes this!

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Yes, some recipe allows to use more than one inedible filler. I think it's the same with mandrake soup. But at least with mandrake soup there is a good reason, mandrake are rare, losing one on a failed recipe would be bad.

 

3 hours ago, b1b3r0n said:

Saying that, I remember a time we were stocking rabbits in chests... Maybe things will change with the secret stuff Klei's working on

Yes, and we got other balance stuff, like cold in cave in winter, flower withering in cave without light, and stuff like this.

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13 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

when these players realise that there are better options for food like baconeggs, butterflies, jerky, or honey, then they won't even notice that the meatballs were even nerfed
this is the intention of this mod, to remove the spotlight on meatballs and shine it elsewhere, where it's actually deserved

inb4 the long awaited Bacon and Eggs nerf mod

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On 8/5/2017 at 2:08 PM, KoreanWaffles said:

That's ok. I'll just eat Bacon and Eggs.

bacon and eggs? its stew all the way!

at least this isnt as bad as the time when the devs made it so that you couldnt feed cooked monster meat to birds

 

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Back at the popularity of a (meatball) nerf and how people in general react to easier-and-fun setup compared to harder-and-challenging one:

Meatballs Nerf - Posted: 5 Aug
310     Unique Visitors
22     Current Subscribers
1     Current Favorites

By comparison, a random buff mod:

Cave Guardian - Posted: 6 Aug
4,920     Unique Visitors
753     Current Subscribers
41     Current Favorites


Numbers and general preferences speak for themselves regarding "what most people want".


So, yeah, I bet the "officially nerf of meatballs, too op, challenging stuff is good for game" would 'fly' perfectly well with most DST players :rolleyes: (like how the bird-on-monster-meat nerf did as well... and got reversed)

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26 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

Back at the popularity of a (meatball) nerf and how people in general react to easier-and-fun setup compared to harder-and-challenging one:

Meatballs Nerf - Posted: 5 Aug
310     Unique Visitors
22     Current Subscribers
1     Current Favorites

By comparison, a random buff mod:

Cave Guardian - Posted: 6 Aug
4,920     Unique Visitors
753     Current Subscribers
41     Current Favorites


Numbers and general preferences speak for themselves regarding "what most people want".


So, yeah, I bet the "officially nerf of meatballs, too op, challenging stuff is good for game" would 'fly' perfectly well with most DST players :rolleyes: (like how the bird-on-monster-meat nerf did as well... and got reversed)

actually i'm pretty sure it's mostly because the cave guardian mod is more flashy and serves a more common purpose

but hey that's just a theory
a gnome theory

 

instant edit: dammit i misread your message. i guess you can just disregard what i said above

but i'm too lazy to strikethrough it

yep

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1 hour ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

"what most people want".

Of course, people don't want it. For a lot of reasons. The question is : is what people want good for the game ? And the answer is : not always. Of course, you must listen to yours players and take in account their point of view.

What i want in a game is more loot, more damage, more... What i have if i got all of this without efforts and special circumstances, is a game that could quickly become boring. It's hard to choose the right limit as a player. And what is even harder, it to choose to make the game more difficult on purpose.

You see what you get when you make the game easier. It's harder to see what you get when you make the game harder.

 

Don't get me wrong : players that want the game to be more easy have valid reasons and they should make the game more easy if it's why they are searching. But since players will usually not search the difficulty, then it's the dev job to add it if it's needed.

Of course, we have all different point of view of what is needed. This is normal.

 

Also, i want to say something : the mod you linked do more than making the game easy. It give player more options.

At the moment, to deal with cave bat coming outside of the cave entrance, we don't have a lot of possibilities. Bunny men (but they are dangerous for you if you have meat on you), Walls (take a long time to build, and resources) and both these options aren't great if you want to put your base near a cave entrance.

 

I'm not fan of the use of gnome (since trinkets are random, i'm not fan of giving them an use), but i like the idea of being able to do something to avoid bats as long as you do effort for it. And it's the case here. You have either to search for a gnome (random, but still work), or to use gunpowder (meaning you make efforts to obtain it), meaning that at least you did something to obtain the advantage.

Of course, some people will find it too easy, or too hard, and possibly too random too, but the point is : it's not a free option, and it add more choice for the player.

 

So it's not any "make the game easier" mod. It's also why it's popular.

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@Lumina - in your train of thoughts about "making an effort to obtain some easiness later" ("did something to obtain the advantage"), same is with ice in those meatballs: you must run across map all winter, each winter, to get desired amount of it for rest of year (talking about a minimum of 3-4 stacks only for food) when clearly would be much easier, time-saving wise, to just get in first autumn all bushes (plus tufts and saplings) you find, transplanted (with the help of piggyback and Chester) to your base and torch some forests for charcoal on racks as that is one time, not every [insert-name] season. Thus that ice as well "it's not a free option" - you must run a lot on the map and mine it (also losing some resources on pickaxes). Not the same level as with a gnome (on my "harsh world" server I got over time about 12 of them suckers, but anyway), and I for one find making gunpowder and walls a lot more easier in due time, yet is a choice. As with making your base beside an open sinkhole ..even if killing bats is not your thing (and they do drop loot too, for incentive).

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Yes, but keep in mind that i don't want to remove the ice as a filler, just limit it. So it's not a free option, and it's stilll useful.

So if it's much easier, time saving wise, to do others things, please, explain me why it will worth it to have ice to make recipe with 3 ice and suddently be useless if you can "only" use 2 ? Especially since the ice will stay forever as long as it's in the fridge and could be used for anything you need at the moment : recipe ingredients, ice cube hat, quick extinguish, ice flingomatic... So ice in fridge is still good to have.

 

And of course you can add others uses for ice if ice seems useless, but honestly, i'm sure than base in cave/oasis are making ice a lot less useful than my idea.

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50 minutes ago, Lumina said:

why it will worth it to have ice to make recipe with 3 ice and suddently be useless if you can "only" use 2 ?

Simple-and-quick answer: because that would, mostly likely, be tackled in the event of a "failed dish" with a "wet goop" make-over or a percentage of one - like with bacon and eggs when using 2 monster meats (at the moment there isn't implemented a method that interdicts you to put in pot more than 1-3 ingredients or so; you either can place ingredients or can't; and a revamping of this mechanic would probably mean a lot of work... for 1 recipe?!). In which case one has a more sure way to just go the "1 meat + 3 berries/mushrooms/etc" way for convenience as there already is kind of a hassle all that running around map to mine ice - at least that would be the case for me. Will it be harder (for me)? A bit, more so annoying knowing the concept of nerf was applied for no good reason - as you haven't provided me/us with a good, objective reason for why you go on-and-on about this desired (by you) recipe modification - since for advanced players isn't really challenging in any way; and you want devs to work on a specific dish (considered by a very minor minority OP) when, if you really consider it THAT OP better opt for a complete revamp that would justify said time and work invested by devs to "tweak" this specific recipe (when, again, that time could be better used to make new content for example).

 

And what is in the end your underlined idea with this specific recipe modification: to make people more cautious? More attentive with food items? (even if most of existing recipes aren't used by vast majority?!) And why do you want to impose so much a type of play, a more cautious one I presume, on all DST playing people? Why do you consider it "good for the game"? What's your reasoning, again: general and constant cautiousness?

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I'm sorry your post is hard to follow for me, i don't understand all you are asking exactly.


So for the recipe, the event of "failed recipe" will only happen if you use 3 ice, not 2 (really easy to do with tags), so you still will be able to make a 2 ice + any filler + meat, without any risk to have a failed dish.

Why i think it's a good idea : because ice is not a beneficial food and last pretty much forever, so it should have a downside as a filler. Like monster meat has a downside. If you think about the seeds and flowers, they aren't allowed to be used as filler, because they are common and don't give you a lot of benefit. This is part of the balance. Same for twigs, you can't usually use more than one in recipe (except for dragonandtwigspie). Why ? Because twigs last forever, don't perish, and so are very convenient. So they have a downside : too many of them usually make a failed recipe.

Why is it a bad thing for ice ? Because it is a change ? But a lot of things convenient changed, like rabbit in chest (forever lasting food).

 

And for the time it will require for devs to change a recipe (or some recipe), it's polishing, it's pretty common in every game, and sometime, you have time, when working on a project, for small changes like this, that aren't the big change of the year, between big content, big changes and all this stuff.

But seriously, what is the point ? I shouldn't suggest a change because it could prevent better change to happen ? Aren't you confident in devs capacity to do the best choice for the game ?
If they spend time on this, either they think it's really needed, or they think it's ok for a change and have some time to do and nothing better to do. I'm not asking them to make it on their priority list about the change the game need, please, a little seriousness.

Don't be afraid, they will priorize the true content, i'm sure about it.

 

Now, i would, please, appreciate that some behaviour stop, i'm not trying to impose my idea, i do like everyone is able to do, i'm suggesting a change. Yes, it's a change. Yes, if a change happens in the main game, it will affect everyone. It's not because i'm explaining why i think this change is better for the game in my opinion that i try to impose it.

Or every suggestion about every part of the game is someone trying to impose this idea.


Really, i usually like debating, suggesting and all, but about this topic there is something really wrong, in the way people keep telling that "you require work for the devs for your idea" "you want to impose your idea" and all this stuff, that isn't debating about the idea, but trying to stop the discussion like if there were a danger. What danger ?

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Ice is not abundant like twigs, flowers or seeds are, almost all year-round. Collecting ice needs a trade of resources for pickaxes, unlike flowers, twigs and seeds. Unlike twigs or flowers (even more seeds via farms + birdcage), you cannot make ice in base or whatever-place you want it be produced. Ice spawns only in winter, as opposed to the other 3 ones mentioned. So that logic kinda falls for making a parallel between them with commonality/ease of access in mind. Procuring ice is harder. And, at the end of day, ice is water - being abundant should be a given even in game context. Plus, again: meatballs are minced meat boiled in water, perfectly in-tune with "1 meat + 3 ice", logic for that is present/substantiated. Withal ice preserved in fridge is substantiated, game-context wise, as you need a fridge in the first place, aka "trading" gears (among the most valuable items required) and fridge slots for possibility of preserving said ice.

 

Ice is not a beneficial food? Ice provides 2 hunger points, in extreme "dying from starvation" cases can be a real life saver (happened to me, oh the shame, lel!), pretty beneficial then.

 

Ice "should have a downside as a filler"? What downside do the mushrooms, especially red ones, have as fillers for example?

 

PS: by the way, how about the "1 berry + 3 ice = Fist Full of Jam"? Or "1 veggie (especially mushrooms) + 3 ice = Ratatouille" in "too OP to use 3 ice in dishes" logic? Should those not be "polished" as well on the nerf side?!

PPS: from your fervent reply it seems you understood pretty much my post :rolleyes:

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10 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

PPS: from your fervent reply it seems you understood pretty much my post :rolleyes:

English isn't my native language and i could easily miss shades, or misunderstand sentences or others stuffs. Usually it's ok, but with your previous post, i got a little overwhelmed and didn't wanted you to say that i purposely deformed your sentences/refusing to answer some points or anything like this.

So i prefered to explain that.

 

12 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

as you need a fridge in the first place, aka "trading" gears (among the most valuable items required) and fridge slots for possibility of preserving said ice.

I would like to know how many players will not make at least one fridge in their game, so the trading of gears is very relative. The space could be a better reason, but with 40 fillers for 1 space, it's not a bad trade.

14 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

Plus, again: meatballs are minced meat boiled in water, perfectly in-tune with "1 meat + 3 ice", logic for that is present/substantiated.

I don't like this "logic" that is good for one dish, but fail for most of the existing dishes. I'm pretty sure that if i say that "butter muffin" must require milk, people will answer me that this is a game, the logic isn't that important and no one will ever use one precious ingredient as a milk for a butter muffin when you can do an ice cream instead. Or if i suggest that you shouldn't be able to use even one twig in the dragonpie because i don't know recipes of pies with twigs in it.

So either it's for all recipe, or either it's for none.

21 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

 

Ice is not a beneficial food? Ice provides 2 hunger points, in extreme "dying from starvation" cases can be a real life saver (happened to me, oh the shame, lel!), pretty beneficial then.

Like seeds. They can save your life. But they have a pretty low numeric values.

 

22 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

Ice "should have a downside as a filler"? What downside do the mushrooms, especially red ones, have as fillers for example?

Well, since you speak about it...

Ok, i'm just joking. I'm using a mod that make that you can't use too many mushrooms as filler. Why i think it's ok for a mod but not for a base game feature like ice ?

- They spoil

- Red mushroom is already a pretty much useless item for most players (i like killing gobbler with them, but you don't always have a gobbler nearby). It will make them even less attractive. Unless ice, they aren't used in useful recipe like ice hat/flingomatic, don't refresh you in summer in emergency.

- Surviving in cave with a limit to number of mushroom you can use in dish would be tedious for most players.

- People could easily use 3 mushrooms as filler when starting the game than they will use 3 ice as a filler so it will change the game for a lot more players, and a lot more often. Use of mushroom as filler is more intuitive, when people will not often think that it could work to put 3 ice.

- Also, it's important to keep changes reasonable. I find a change about ice reasonable and small. Change in ice and mushroom ? Not the same.

- Mushrooms are a base food, one of the first you'll encounter and use. Red one are probably intended to be a bad food to eat but a good food to use in crockpot. It's a good thing as long as this isn't too common.

- Mushrooms, especially red mushrooms, and green mushrooms for beginner, could lead to death. Red mushroom, raw, will make you lose health, green mushroom, raw, will make you lose a lot of sanity, so danger because of sanity monster. The game rewards you if you learn of to make a clever use of mushrooms. Managing sanity, healing, luring and killing gobbler, and using them in the crockpot.

For a new player, when you discover how the crockpot is amazing for food it's usually a big change in your survival, and it greatly increase your chance to, at least, see the winter. Mushrooms are part of this. They are a natural filler, especially when you had bad experience with poisoned mushrooms, because it seems better to use them in crockpot than eating them (it's a big risk to test mushrooms when you already had hard time surviving).

So in the progression of a player, mushroom as filler are a reward, a clever use of mushroom, and a step in the progression that player will usually encounter. Also, it's very nice to have suddently an use for the red mushroom, it make a change in your way to consider it ("something bad that i will never use again" to "something useful to make food"), which is pretty great. And after, you could learn that they are useful to kill gobbler. So it's great to have better knowledge about how make a bad item useful.

Ice on the other hand is not something player will often decide to use as the only filler. It doesn't have the same degree of risk than mushrooms for news players. And it's useful for other stuff.

 

3 mushrooms not usable as a filler could be very fun when used by veterans players and when the diversity of existing filler is enough (the mod i'm using add some ingredients, especially one you can find in the wild). But it will alter a lot the first experience of the game.

3 ices not usable as a filler doesn't have the same impact.

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