Are there any plans for character balance?

[Mr. Despair]

13 hours ago, Mr Pig said:

Actually Abigail beats up bees and splumonkeys like nobody's business which in the case of bees at least most characters struggle with doing without taking damage due to the sheer number of them.

Bees are , in my opinion, Extremely easy but the monkey are really annoying so you have a point.

Abiagil can beat the Hounds too if you are helping her.

Quote

Not to mention she proves valuable in killing Grumble-bees during the queen bee fight if wicker hasn't made a jellybean farm out of her yet.

Yeah.. But you can do the same faster using bunnymen and/or Pigs or by just playing as Wolfgang/Wickerbottom.

1 hour ago, EsaiXD said:

thats cause you are playing her wrong all ranged weaponry other than the sleep fire darts and the staffs are affected by her dmg multiplier. it is one abigail can deal with multiple t3 nests even during the day  if you know how to deal with them.

Eh. You're actually right but 75 damage is still a lot and that you need one more hit to get a feather for just 5 hp is terrible.

I know, my point was more about how she was able to beat all the spiders at the same time of multiple lv3 nest at the same time without any help in RoG but she can't in DST because everybody got more HP but Abigail still has just 600.

 

1 hour ago, EsaiXD said:

Also for the aspect of her damage you can just get the meat tank of a beefalo to mitigate that on the surface.  Wendy's less damage is hardly a detriment if only in caves but that is also countered to the fact that abigail is always at full power down there.

Taming a Beefalo is a long and extremely tedius job tho and Abigail is supposed to balance Wendy's damage, The fact that you need a cow to do that shows how inconpetent Abigail is.

 

1 hour ago, EsaiXD said:

also in order to deal with that mobs have a higher health now in together a wendy can counter that by making as many precharged flowers as she desires to respawn her sister. i for one like to carry around 4-6. 9 in spring for that frog rain chance

That's a waste of slots. You could use any other character so you wouldn't need Abigail to balance your damage and you would use less resourses

BTW, You don't need to worry about Frog rain if you let Goose or beefalos fight with them you get frog legs and/or meat with feathers and you don't really need gears to survive summer, you can just go to the caves, make a summer base (or just one in the Antlion desert where things never start burning randomly in summer) or waste your time in Spring killing Goose and her annoying babies to make fancy fans.

I know a lot of people that love Willow, Woodie, Wendy, Mawell but stopped playing as them because their abilities suck (thought Maxwell is great imo) and i believe that is a real shame.

[DVGMedia]

6 minutes ago, spideswine said:

First of all: that's neat I guess.

Second: ... I generally wouldn't bother with it though.

Third: watching the video you can clearly see that 3 second of fire immunity won't help you, you either need to stay out of the fires range or wear a scale male, willow is pretty much as good at this as other characters.

Fourth: since this isn't willow specific it doesn't increase her skillcap.

you can if you know how to fight  i do this even without resistance as you can just make a quick kite to reset the fires timer. same goes for willow  except she can stay in for much longer getting 4 more hits than other characters  without scalemail  so that then means it is a willow specific tactic to use.

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

you can if you know how to fight  i do this even without resistance as you can just make a quick kite to reset the fires timer. same goes for willow  except she can stay in for much longer getting 4 more hits than other characters  without scalemail  so that then means it is a willow specific tactic to use.

Not really since staying out of fire's range is often doable on all other characters.

[DVGMedia]

5 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Not really since staying out of fire's range is often doable on all other characters.

try that in any season other than spring and give me the results on that

 

[spideswine]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

>Taming a Beefalo is long and extremely tedius job tho and Abigail is supposed to balance Wendy's damage, The fact that you need a cow to do that shows how inconpetent Abigail is.

Not if you have wicker with a twigs lureplant farm, then it's just very tedius.

Anyway ornery beef is actually quite ovepowered, he has 67 base damage with saddle, good speed, 1k hp pool, and 10 hp/sec regen.

Thing about beefalos is that they are absolute masters of ******* themselves over, either by getting killed(to frog rain, hounds, bearger(by sharing aggro with other beefs)), or by finding ways to go feral(salt lick burning down, or running away from their range), plus the fact they can't go underground and they're pretty much never worth the effort.

P.S I'm only replying to this because tamed beefalos have really gotten on my nerves, the amount of rollbacks I've seen happen over these idiotic beasts isn't something I have fond memories of.

[spideswine]

13 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

try that in any season other than spring and give me the results on that

 

Tried it in autumn(made a server for it to see if I'm missing something) went smoothly with no issues whatsoever, used wigfrid(so I wouldn't have to spawn a helm).

Well at least I learned another way to kill spider queen.

[DVGMedia]

9 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Not if you have wicker with a twigs lureplant farm, then it's just very redius.

Anyway ornery beef is actually quite ovepowered, he has 67 base damage with saddle, good speed, 1k hp pool, and 10 hp/sec regen.

Thing about beefalos is that they are absolute masters of ******* themselves over, either by getting killed(to frog rain, hounds, bearger(by sharing aggro with other beefs)), or by finding ways to go feral(salt lick burning down, or running away from their range), plus the fact they can't go underground and they're pretty much never worth the effort.

P.S I'm only replying to this because tamed beefalos have really gotten on my nerves, the amount of rollbacks I've seen happen over these idiotic beasts isn't something I have fond memories of.

beefs are good but they should only ever die based off of what the player does. you shouldnt have your beefalo near the wild ones just cause of that whole herd mentality. salt licks are only there to hold the beefalo when you are gone or dont need it. but that also doesnt mean they dont need to be feed after domestication cause they do.  domestic beefs dont go into heat so the only thing that would aggro them would be hounds.  but then again you should have your teeth trap field or tentacle field to deal with those.  so i dont see how you have so much trouble. penning them up is also a way of  keeping them in the licks range and scaled flooring can keep the licks perserved without needing a flingo.  there are so  many things that can be done  and for the fact you dont see the multitude of what can be done bothers me. this is going to be the last post im making

 

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, EsaiXD said:

beefs are good but they should only ever die based off of what the player does. you shouldnt have your beefalo near the wild ones just cause of that whole herd mentality. salt licks are only there to hold the beefalo when you are gone or dont need it. but that also doesnt mean they dont need to be feed after domestication cause they do.  domestic beefs dont go into heat so the only thing that would aggro them would be hounds.  but then again you should have your teeth trap field or tentacle field to deal with those.  so i dont see how you have so much trouble. penning them up is also a way of  keeping them in the licks range and scaled flooring can keep the licks perserved without needing a flingo.  there are so  many things that can be done  and for the fact you dont see the multitude of what can be done bothers me. this is going to be the last post im making

 

They are just really good at it, and they don't need to be fed after domestication(aside from the ornery needing to be fed once before riding it).

Now sure if you don't use them keeping them safe isn't too hard(but you'll need to constantly waste resources for salt licks), it's when you start using them for a fight then hounds show up, or frog rain starts, or they just figure out a way to screw themselves anyway(they're really good at it), they just end up pretty much never being worth the effort.

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, spideswine said:

They are just really good at it, and they don't need to be fed after domestication(aside from the ornery needing to be fed once before riding it).

Now sure if you don't use them keeping them safe isn't too hard(but you'll need to constantly waste resources for salt licks), it's when you start using them for a fight then hounds show up, or frog rain starts, or they just figure out a way to screw themselves anyway(they're really good at it), they just end up pretty much never being worth the effort.

being a wendy player having a beefalo is just amazing and i constantly use mine to the fullest.  never had it die cause of stupidness. and also alot of people say that about abigail aswell. but you just need to know how that character intereacts. which is why wicker and wolf are lower on the skill scale cause so much  has already been found out. that you can just make a quick search and you would know everything about them.

[spideswine]

8 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

being a wendy player having a beefalo is just amazing and i constantly use mine to the fullest.  never had it die cause of stupidness. and also alot of people say that about abigail aswell. but you just need to know how that character intereacts. which is why wicker and wolf are lower on the skill scale cause so much  has already been found out. that you can just make a quick search and you would know everything about them.

I'm getting more and more of a sense that you're just using this in some of bizzare attempt to brag of how great you are and how bad everyone else is.

Beefalo still can't go underground, where damage is needed most.

Using them against something like dfly in a solo server is generally too risky, in a group server the group is a big risk to the beefalo, also his utility is crippled, using him for minor fights isn't very good either, because of the mess of getting off him to gather things, I guess he's good against deerclops, but deerclops isn't very hard anyway.

using him against Goose/Goose doesn't look like the greatest idea to me either.

I'm getting the sense you just sit in topside base where there's no real danger to anything and brag about how well you do there while the wolfgangs go underground kill toadstool, fuelweaver, and clear the ruins.

[DVGMedia]

13 minutes ago, spideswine said:

I'm getting more and more of a sense that you're just using this in some of bizzare attempt to brag of how great you are and how bad everyone else is.

Beefalo still can't go underground, where damage is needed most.

Using them against something like dfly in a solo server is generally too risky, in a group server the group is a big risk to the beefalo, also his utility is crippled, using him for minor fights isn't very good either, because of the mess of getting off him to gather things, I guess he's good against deerclops, but deerclops isn't very hard anyway.

using him against Goose/Goose doesn't look like the greatest idea to me either.

I'm getting the sense you just sit in topside base where there's no real danger to anything and brag about how well you do there while the wolfgangs go underground and kill toadstool and fuelweaver, and clear the ruins.

nah i do have a bunch  of info on the game just cause of how much i play it which is why  i say give every character a chance and that wicker and wolf arent the greatest just cause of first hand experience.  wicker pitters out and wolfgang is just boring to play.  I want everyone to at least acknowledge the work klei puts into this game which is why its so beautiful and that these 2 characters arent the best. since everyone is the best and puting everyone together with competent players just makes the world generated just get dominated.  and on the aspects of wolfgangs i do play in a server mostly dedicated to a specific group.  you ma y have heard some people talk bad about us but thats just cause they are too salty to just admit they are wrong.  Dont doubt any of the characters  as each one can do any thing the others can.  if you want come and join me in a world. i can show you things you've never seen that would make your quote on quote OP characters cry.

 

honestly we dont have any people that goes and do that on their own cause we do like to play the game. whenever there is a boss rush everyone can get in on it.

 

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, EsaiXD said:

nah i do have a bunch  of info on the game just cause of how much i play it which is why  i say give every character a chance and that wicker and wolf arent the greatest just cause of first hand experience.  wicker pitters out and wolfgang is just boring to play.  I want everyone to at least acknowledge the work klei puts into this game which is why its so beautiful and that these 2 characters arent the best. since everyone is the best and puting everyone together with competent players just makes the world generated just get dominated.  and on the aspects of wolfgangs i do play in a server mostly dedicated to a specific group.  you ma y have heard some people talk bad about us but thats just cause they are too salty to just admit they are wrong.  Dont doubt any of the characters  as each one can do any thing the others can.  if you want come and join me in a world. i can show you things you've never seen that would make your quote on quote OP characters cry.

You know what I highly doubt it, but sure, why not.

[Mr. Despair]

11 minutes ago, spideswine said:

using him against Goose/Goose doesn't look like the greatest idea to me either.

See around 4:40, You can also easily beat Bearger with him.

[spideswine]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

See around 4:40, You can also easily beat Bearger with him.

This isn't about difficulty, it's about the likelyhood of something going wrong, if he dies a tremendous amount of resources goes with him.

The reason I wouldn't try using him against Goose is first of all due to double damage vs mobs Goose has(which I assume applies to ridden beefalo), on top of that add the fact that his range is pretty much based on rng(talking about Goose/Goose) and something backfiring with the mosling and it's just not something I'd want to risk.

note that the fight in this video is before there's moosling and an egg, Goose/Goose behaviour is much more predictable at that point.

[kineticdreamss]

48 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

wolfgang is just boring to play. 

I want everyone to at least acknowledge the work klei puts into this game which is why its so beautiful

 

Bit of a contradiction, but k.

Self contradiction aside, though... boring = not op.

Edit: PS: I contradicted myself, as well, by not calling his fear of monsters a negative. So, I mean no offense.

Compared to every other character, the perks that Wolf and Wicker get far outweigh their negatives. Their perks are higher in number and their negatives few and extremely manageable.

Take Wicker:
 - She has 5 books, all of which do something useful.
 - Has early access to science.
 - The use of books makes her go insane, which also means easy nightmare fuel.

Her negatives are that she can't sleep and doesn't like spoiled food... one negative is already canceled out 2 different books. When was the last time you slept?

Compare her perks and negatives to any other character in the game, Wolfgang included, and you'll see what I mean.

Wolfgang is also the same way, but to a lesser extent. He has less, but extremely powerful perks... and one bad negative, his hunger, which is ultimately a trivial aspect of the game. I don't consider his fear of monsters a negative... he kills them too fast for one to even feel the effects.

[Lumina]

3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

 here is your fire proof and that isnt the only mob that this can be done to.... though every character can use this with a scalemail but willow can take advantage of it more with her resistance.

It looks like more like a bug for me, the queen is doing nothing, and fire isn't supposed to make monsters do nothing.

2 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

if you want come and join me in a world. i can show you things you've never seen that would make your quote on quote OP characters cry.

Except that you can't explain them here. So i don't see how it could be a valid strategy.

 

1 hour ago, kineticdreamss said:

Her negatives are that she can't sleep and doesn't like spoiled food... one negative is already canceled out 2 different books. When was the last time you slept?

Yeah, sleep is nearly not important for me now, i don't even remember that the option exist. Even if Wicker is probably the best to help others people being able to sleep since she provides a lot of food.

 

For me, a small change like "Wicker can't use book if she doesn't have enough sanity" would be enough for a first time and would make her more balanced.

No need to absolute big changes, also new players will probably not even try to do this so the character remains as powerful as now for new players, the change will not affect them.

[DVGMedia]

16 minutes ago, Lumina said:

it looks like more like a bug for me, the queen is doing nothing, and fire isn't supposed to make monsters do nothing.

any mob that has a panic state when getting lit on fire cause them to stay in that state and not attack for the duration that its in the fire/ on fire which is why  the mobs dont try to attack as they are constantly trying to escape.  as said this dont work on all mobs only the ones that panic while set on fire with the only exception being clockwork rooks.

 

[Lumina]

Still not looks really legit for me, but i guess it's not that important anyway.

[Yuuko]

Balance is very important in any game, whether pve or pvp.  While balance is important, it does not mean all things have to be equal.  There can be good and bad crock pot recipes, combat gear ect.  More important than just "good and bad" is "different and interesting."

When we talk about characters being overpowered or weak we want to separate it between the two.  Its good for a character to be a strong choice, and it can be good for a character to be weak!  It isn't good if a character is bland, or uninteresting.

What we need to do is learn from the changes they've done before.  The powers of the different characters has changed over time already.  I think Wickerbottom is a great example of a character re-work that kept their original intent, but added game play that fulfills "being" that character more!

Why doesn't Wilson have a science tab that lets him make potions?  He's a science guy, but has no science that is unique to him.  He's supposed to be the "nobody" character but we don't need that anymore.  It made sense in DS because you needed to unlock characters, but why bother leaving him bland now?

Why is Woodie's perk just chopping trees and having an axe that won't shut up?  We don't need "more powerful" characters, but we do need to feel the unique aspects of each character when we play.  Woodie doesn't have to chop trees the fastest just to be good, anyone can give a few pigs some meats and chop trees fast, you can even lure a boss through to level a forest in no time!  He needs something more unique.  Maybe he should be able to befriend treeguards, or force-grow trees with pinecones similar to how Webber force-grows spider dens?

Even Wes being bad can be made better.  Right now he just consumes more food and deals less damage.  I still have overloads of spoiling foods even with how much he eats and balloons are kinda meh.  Maybe balloons could be made more interesting while still being worthless - like let you make balloon hats, swords, or carry balloons with you so that they don't just sit there as clutter.  Make the balloon sword consumable like darts, and pop when you attack for its aoe damage (damaging you too).  Make the balloon hat the same way - if you're ever hit it pops doing the aoe damage.  This lets you use the balloons, even if they are horrible lol