Are there any plans for character balance?

[PillsStealer]

5 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

And how exactly dose one chop down trees at a rate almost equal to Woodie? I must know this trick...

I usually just spam my Mouse 1 to cancel the chop animation and start a new one. If you press it fast enough, you'll chop as fast as woodie. You can do this to rocks and stuff too.

[Sinister_Fang]

8 minutes ago, PillsStealer said:

I usually just spam my Mouse 1 to cancel the chop animation and start a new one. If you press it fast enough, you'll chop as fast as woodie. You can do this to rocks and stuff too.

Kinda sounds like a bug to me.

[HamBatter]

12 minutes ago, PillsStealer said:

I usually just spam my Mouse 1 to cancel the chop animation and start a new one. If you press it fast enough, you'll chop as fast as woodie. You can do this to rocks and stuff too.

 

[spideswine]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:11 AM, kineticdreamss said:

Why is it that these two characters have managed to stay so overpowered for so long? Why have the devs done nothing?

Well let me ask you this question: Are wolfgang and wicker really overpowered?

This isn't a pvp game(I tend to even forget that is an option because it's a joke), balance in this game isn't about comparing one character to another so much as it is comparing character to the environment.

So here's the thing: Is doing things(in general) too easy with wicker and wolf, or too hard with other characters? Hell "hard" and "easy" aren't a good choice of words here due to pve nature of the game, are the challenges provided by this game more reasonable and more fun when playing wicker and wolf, or when playing other characters?

Here's my personal opinion on it: basic survival wise(getting through the seasons without dying and/or losing base) I don't think wicker/wolf are much better at it than other characters, so I don't think there's a problem here.

Progression wise(building a large base+killing raid bosses): I think the game is just more reasonable when these characters are involved, take dfly for example(which is probably the most important raid boss loot wise), he's a reasonable fight if you're wolfgang, and incredibly annoying and taxing resource wise(to the point it's just not fun) if you're not, or just get a group of people and hold f, ultimately I think wolfgang is the reasonable character here where everyone else are just lacking.

Now take bee queen: wicker can create a setup to kill it at a sensible(actually probably on the cheaper side of things) price, otherwise the most popular approach I've seen(I'd actually prefer beefalos, but whatever) is spend a stupid(unreasonable and unfun) amount of resources on bunny hutches.

Now take toadstool: just an immense amount of hp to burn through, again I find wolfgang reasonable and the rest lacking.

fuelweaver: due to all of his abilities I think he's just reasonable in general.

klaus: ok wolfgang is too good here, the rest are either a bit lacking or sensible.

So in summary I think that wolfgang/wicker are the balanced characters(also wx/wigfrid, but wx is awfully boring and is mostly just a "I have a lot of stats" sort of char which in my opinion also needs work), and the rest are just lacking and in need of buffs, mods can do that but there's a good argument for the devs to do it officially.

 

[Lumina]

And i think that Wicker and Wolfgang are a little too good, and that the game will be improved if they are a little less good, but just a little. Also, making them a little less good could allow better balance of the game (you could create options for making things a little easier without making them overpowered with theses two character)

 

I already took the example of new craftable item. Each time you have to take in account that Wickerbottom will have an advantage, making her even more stronger. But it's true for news plants too : if you want to add news plants you have to take in account that she could make things regrow with her book, so it could limit your possibility. Or a new monster, if tentacles are too powerful against him, then possible others strategies will be less efficient.

 

So limiting her could allow better things for the game, alternate methods to obtain things that make game easier or more fun for others character without making it unbalanced because of her. You could even add news books for her (more diversity, more fun in various situations) because she will be less powerful (and so the new options would not be totally broken).

You can't always up all the character, you must find a middle ground, and Wickerbottom and Wolfgang can't be the middle ground. Why ? Because it's very easy to make a character a little more powerful than expected by changing a small thing. So better to try to aim for something lower than the better character.

Nerfing character could be better for the game itself, because it could allows news possibilities that would otherwise be broken, overpowered, or, at the contrary, without interest, unfun because bringing nothing great...

 

So i'm in favour of a small nerf of Wickerbottom (and again it's the only character i'm playing at the moment), a boost of Willow, Wilson, and Woodie, not necessarily big ones, so diversity could exist and allows a lot of new cool things.

[kineticdreamss]

15 minutes ago, Lumina said:

So i'm in favour of a small nerf of Wickerbottom (and again it's the only character i'm playing at the moment), a boost of Willow, Wilson, and Woodie, not necessarily big ones, so diversity could exist and allows a lot of new cool things.

I couldn't agree more. I'm in favor of nerfs, rather than buffs. But, in the case of DST, as you put it... some characters need buffs, as well. lol

@spideswine 

Dfly is not a hard boss.

Regardless of whether there is PvP, or not, one should never neglect balance, in my opinion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, some people might like Woodie, but after playing 300 days as Woodie, there's bound to be a sense of "I could have done much more if I had picked Wolf, or Wicker."

You may not get that uncomfortable feeling, but others might, and that causes a major disconnect that leads people to quit, or just play the 2 most OP characters. In such a setting, there is no canvas for imagination because people simply can't be assed to play weaker characters, or the game for that matter.

Edit: In essence; Yes, Wolfgang and Wicker are overpowered. They are overpowered by a very large margin, Wicker in particular.
 

[spideswine]

18 minutes ago, Lumina said:

And i think that Wicker and Wolfgang are a little too good, and that the game will be improved if they are a little less good, but just a little. Also, making them a little less good could allow better balance of the game (you could create options for making things a little easier without making them overpowered with theses two character)

 

I already took the example of new craftable item. Each time you have to take in account that Wickerbottom will have an advantage, making her even more stronger. But it's true for news plants too : if you want to add news plants you have to take in account that she could make things regrow with her book, so it could limit your possibility. Or a new monster, if tentacles are too powerful against him, then possible others strategies will be less efficient.

 

So limiting her could allow better things for the game, alternate methods to obtain things that make game easier or more fun for others character without making it unbalanced because of her. You could even add news books for her (more diversity, more fun in various situations) because she will be less powerful (and so the new options would not be totally broken).

You can't always up all the character, you must find a middle ground, and Wickerbottom and Wolfgang can't be the middle ground. Why ? Because it's very easy to make a character a little more powerful than expected by changing a small thing. So better to try to aim for something lower than the better character.

Nerfing character could be better for the game itself, because it could allows news possibilities that would otherwise be broken, overpowered, or, at the contrary, without interest, unfun because bringing nothing great...

 

So i'm in favour of a small nerf of Wickerbottom (and again it's the only character i'm playing at the moment), a boost of Willow, Wilson, and Woodie, not necessarily big ones, so diversity could exist and allows a lot of new cool things.

Here's the thing though: even if wicker was balanced right now(whatever that is), you'd still have to worry about new plants or monsters who are weak to tentacles causing her to go stronger, nerfing her won't fix that.

The thing is that what you're suggesting(I think?) is nerfing wicker, nerfing wolf, and then nerfing all things which are balanced with them in mind(...so most things really), I think buffing most of the other characters is less work(and will make people happier) than nerfing wicker wolf, half the mobs in the game, and then buffing half of the resources in the game.

The thing is that in my personal opinion most of the characters are just boring, some don't fit what I enjoy(maxwell,wes), some are strong but just lame(wx),  and others are just crappy(webber,willow,wendy,wilson,woodie), nerfing wicker won't make them fun, it will likely just make wicker less fun(though well, if it's done well it could make her more fun, it depends), as things currently stand I don't play things like wilson not due to wicker or wolf being stronger, I don't play wilson because I don't have fun playing him, nerfing wicker or wolf won't change that.

[spideswine]

12 minutes ago, kineticdreamss said:

I couldn't agree more. I'm in favor of nerfs, rather than buffs. But, in the case of DST, as you put it... some characters need buffs, as well. lol

@spideswine 

Dfly is not a hard boss.

Regardless of whether there is PvP, or not, one should never neglect balance, in my opinion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, some people might like Woodie, but after playing 300 days as Woodie, there's bound to be a sense of "I could have done much more if I had picked Wolf, or Wicker."

You may not get that uncomfortable feeling, but others might, and that causes a major disconnect that leads people to quit, or just play the 2 most OP characters. In such a setting, there is no canvas for imagination because people simply can't be assed to play weaker characters, or the game for that matter.

Edit: In essence; Yes, Wolfgang and Wicker are overpowered. They are overpowered by a very large margin, Wicker in particular.
 

I never said dfly is a hard boss, I said specifically "incredibly annoying and taxing resource wise(to the point it's just not fun) if you're not "(wolfgang), where do you see the word "hard" here? I also like how you don't specify the resources it took you for that fight in that picture, even though they are the main point of my argument.

 

As to your other argument, I can also just turn or god mode and creative mod and progress at a much faster pace, but that's not much fun is it?

The question is do I find the speed of progression or the preparation and material loss required for other things reasonable or fun, and the answer is just "no" for most characters, that's not to say I think wolf and wicker are perfect either, tentacles are too good at dealing with bee queen, and wolfgang makes klaus too easy, but I also find the popular alternatives for bee queen to be too demanding as well.

[Lumina]

Just now, spideswine said:

nerfing her won't fix that.

Nerfing her will not solve magically all the advantage she could give, but it could give limit, allowing you more space for other stuff. Also, if she must do a little more efforts to benefit her advantages, then they are more deserved.

So for me it's enough.

Also, nerfing a little wicker and a little wolfgang is enough, no need to nerf half the game too. And as i said, a little buff of others character is needed too for me, so what should happen is that wicker is a little less good (but still attractive), same for wolfgang, others character are a little more attractive/fun.

I would like to see more books option for wickerbottom, because there are a lot of fun options, but at the moment, adding a book would become overpowered, because the character is already too great. But if you make her a little less powerful, then you can add diversity and so more fun.

This doesn't prevent making others character more enjoyable (and i would say, one thing to do is creating more combo. Wicker is so great because she works well with multiples others character : wolfgang (lot of food), maxwell (can use book and recover sanity quickly), and WX (lightning).

 

Do we have fun combo like willow wilson ? wendy WX ? Maxwell wilson ? woodie willow ? webber woodie ? I don't know them, if it's the case. Of course i didn't played that much others character than wicker, but i play in group time to time, i read the forum, and the main combo i saw are the wicker one mentionned above, and some wendy + wolfgang if i remember well...

 

5 minutes ago, spideswine said:

 

The question is do I find the speed of progression or the preparation and material loss required for other things reasonable or fun, and the answer is just "no" for most characters

Yeah, but you can add options for that. After all resource variant offers news possibility to obtain things by others ways, sometimes quicker ways, or lazy (like the twiggy tree : i plant some, let them quiet, and got some free twigs time to time, not a lot of efforts)

We are speaking about change of character that would come with new content, not alone. A nerf of wicker/wolfgang would not be that important if they come in a situation when you have new things to do and new ways to obtain things and possible new tactical options, this kind of stuff. If you can craft a new machine helping you to fight dragonfly (or recruit new follower), then wolfgang being a little less powerful will not ruin your fun and allow everyone to enjoy the fight agaisnt dragonfly more. But if you don't nerf wolfgang, then at first you will think "ok, this is fun to do with woodie/wilson/whatever, now,", but quickly you'll return to wolfgang and think "the others character are too inefficients, the preparation and material loss required isn't reasonable or fun, the speed of progression is too slow".

[spideswine]

The thing is that considering what we are talking about buffing all other characters to wolf/wicker level won't just make everyone happier(first of all mobs won't get nerfed, so having killed them won't reduce your achievements in previous games, second wicker/wolf players won't be sad cause nerfs, and the rest won't mind cause their chars will be good), it will also save the devs works, as the way I see it the game is mostly balanced for wicker and wolf, nerf them and you'll have to rebalance the game, buff other chars to their level and you're good.

As far as characters combos, that would be nice sure, but that's work for the devs which they may or may not decide is worth the effort, but wicker and wolf aren't at fault here.

*One thing to clarify is that I don't think wicker is as perfectly balanced as I may imply, I actually think she's a bit above the games power level and I'd suggest not allowing her to read books if she doesn't have the sanity for them, but I still think that most characters need buffs to be fun in the current balance of the game, and that buffing them is less work than nerfing everything else to their level.

[Lumina]

Yes ? And ?

I never spoke about nerfing everyone else to the level of most character, i'm speaking about nerfing wickerbottom a little, wolfgang a little, making willow, wilson and woodie better, maybe some improvement here and here for some character and i never spoke about touching other existing content like monster and all. So stop please mentionning stuff i already said wasn't needed like it's an obstacle to the change i'm suggesting.

And no, making others characters overpowered will not necessarily make everyone happy, because power isn't fun, it could be, but it could also be boringness, so no need to make everyone as powerful, the main thing to do is to make them more fun. Power is a tool for this, but not the only one.

[spideswine]

11 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Yes ? And ?

I never spoke about nerfing everyone else to the level of most character,

I never said that you said that, unless we are talking about mobs, then I sort of did.

11 minutes ago, Lumina said:

 wolfgang a little, making willow, wilson and woodie better, maybe some improvement here and here for some character and i never spoke about touching other existing content like monster and all.

Gonna have to disagree with you about wolfgang.

As far as willow, wilson and woodie(also webber and wendy), maybe it's just a misunderstanding but I get the feeling that you think they only need a bit of help, whereas I think they need a lot of it.

11 minutes ago, Lumina said:

maybe some improvement here and here for some character and i never spoke about touching other existing content like monster and all. So stop please mentionning stuff i already said wasn't needed like it's an obstacle to the change i'm suggesting.

And no, making others characters overpowered will not necessarily make everyone happy, because power isn't fun, it could be, but it could also be boringness, so no need to make everyone as powerful, the main thing to do is to make them more fun. Power is a tool for this, but not the only one.

I think that this is the main thing we disagree on.

I don't think that the way wolfgang and wicker work currently makes progression in this game too straight forward and fast, I DO think that progression as most characters(say wilson) is tedious and simply not fun, which is why I think characters like wilson need some good buffs instead of characters like wolfgang being nerfed, the way progression in this game works I do not believe wolfgang makes it too simple and boring, but I do think wilson makes it tedious and annoying, hence I don't think wolfgang is overpowered, I think wilson(/etc) is underpowered.(wicker is a bit over the top though)

[Lumina]

I will stop answering a little, because i have the feeling that it's circling too much at the moment.

[kineticdreamss]

28 minutes ago, spideswine said:

 I'd suggest not allowing her to read books if she doesn't have the sanity for them,

That's really all I'm asking for.

I don't think characters need to be buffed to Wicker/Wolf levels. Rather Wicker and Wolf should be brought slightly down .

No one is saying Wolfgang should be nerfed into the ground... but the perks he gets are admittedly too strong. 2x dmg is overwhelming when it is also combined with higher health and move speed.

Think of it this way: At full hunger, not only does he get 2x dmg, but he also gets the ability to get an extra hit on a mob, where other characters are simply unable to. So, not only is he hitting like a train, he also gets more hits in on average. 

Does that REALLY seem fair to you?

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, kineticdreamss said:

That's really all I'm asking for.

I don't think characters need to be buffed to Wicker/Wolf levels. Rather Wicker and Wolf should be brought slightly down .

No one is saying Wolfgang should be nerfed into the ground... but the perks he gets are admittedly too strong. 2x dmg is overwhelming when it is also combined with higher health and move speed.

Think of it this way: At full hunger, not only does he get 2x dmg, but he also gets the ability to get an extra hit on a mob, where other characters are simply unable to. So, not only is he hitting like a train, he also gets more hits in on average. 

Does that REALLY seem fair to you?

Here's the thing though: he generally has 50% increased hunger rate, which goes much further if you want the damage boost, so let's discuss his scenarios:

Scouting/Building/collecting resources: 50% extra hunger is quite annoying, so at a decent disadvantage here.(has extra 50 hp but meh)

Fighting minor mobs(spiders/bees): will still stay at a 50% extra hunger, still at a decent disadvantage here.

Fighting "medium" mobs(clockwerk in ruins,spider queen, mctusk if you feel like it): Will go mighty, and get his full boost, but will need to bring much more food to compensate.

Fighting major mobs(bosses): will go mighty, extra food drain is kinda negligible at this point(you'll probably be healing above it with hunger anyway), more hp, more speed, much better damage: he shines here.

Now here's the thing, how much of the game is spent fighting major and medium mobs? and during the rest the increased hunger drain(also sanity but who cares) is annoying you, but fact of the matter is that a good chunk of these bosses fights(like say dragonfly) drain so many resources out of a regular char that wolfgang ends up pretty reasonable compared to the game itself(not so much to other characters).

*EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTE I am not comparing wolfgang to wilson(even though it might look that way), a major point that I'm trying to make is that wilson in the dst environment is just not fun and is underpowered, the things required for progression with him require an amount of preparation which I do not find fun or reasonable, I am comparing wolfgang to the way he himself is played in PvE and argue that it's reasonable.

[DVGMedia]

10 hours ago, kineticdreamss said:

Every character can do something awesome, it's just that no one cares to figure those characters out because... why would they? They can just megabase with Wolf or Wicker for very little effort.

There are some characters that just have a higher skill cap  than the aforementioned wolfgang and wicker.  Have you ever seen any new tactics that are employed by a wicker or wolf.  They are the simplest characters to get a grasp of which is why they are the ones most likely to be gravitated toward. Now as you mentioned there are a lot of things the other characters can do way better than these 2 simple ones just cause of ingenuity.  It is just up to us to find those skill caps. I know I am especially with wendy.

21 hours ago, Mr. Despair said:

Wendy deals less damage, All mobs got more HP in DST but Abigail still has just 600 HP,  She can barely deal with one lv3 spider nest and wouldn't help you at all with the bosses. She can't get a lot of blow dirts (A weapon that would be really useful to her) because she needs two hits to kill a bird with the boomerang (Birds have 25 HP , The boomerang with Wendy deal 20 damge, You need an extra hit for just 5 hp).

thats cause you are playing her wrong all ranged weaponry other than the sleep fire darts and the staffs are affected by her dmg multiplier. it is one abigail can deal with multiple t3 nests even during the day  if you know how to deal with them. Also for the aspect of her damage you can just get the meat tank of a beefalo to mitigate that on the surface.  Wendy's less damage is hardly a detriment if only in caves but that is also countered to the fact that abigail is always at full power down there.

 

also in order to deal with that mobs have a higher health now in together a wendy can counter that by making as many precharged flowers as she desires to respawn her sister. i for one like to carry around 4-6. 9 in spring for that frog rain chance

[spideswine]

13 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

There are some characters that just have a higher skill cap  than the aforementioned wolfgang and wicker.  Have you ever seen any new tactics that are employed by a wicker or wolf.  They are the simplest characters to get a grasp of which is why they are the ones most likely to be gravitated toward.

What are you talking about? Wicker has more tricks up her sleeves than the vast majority of characters, I don't think any character is particularly high skill cap but there's more to wicker than most, hell new players have an issue with wolfgangs increased hunger rate and the fact he has a choice between high hunger and high stats and lower hunger and lower stats also makes him more complex than most(like wilson, or webber, or wigfrid, or wx).

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, spideswine said:

What are you talking about? Wicker has more tricks up her sleeves than the vast majority of characters, I don't think any character is particularly high skill cap but there's more to wicker than most, hell new players have an issue with wolfgangs increased higher rate and the fact he has a choice between high hunger and high stats and lower hunger and lowest stats also makes him more complex than most(like wilson, or webber, or wigfrid, or wx).

the most recent tech wickers have employed is tentacle traps with walls.... and the only tech wolfgang has is the increased healing while wimpy. thats about it.

 

what tech are you going to say is so advanced that they can do? putting beefs to sleep during the day so they can shave?  or maybe picking up an item while you are going mighty as wolfgang to cancel the mighty animation.

[DVGMedia]

6 hours ago, spideswine said:

but I also find the popular alternatives for bee queen to be too demanding as well.

be a wendy?

[spideswine]

3 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

be a wendy?

You realize that a wicker setup, which will last for pretty much eternity, is cheaper than a single wendy solo?

And wicker has other things she's actually good at.

13 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

the most recent tech wickers have employed is tentacle traps with walls.... and the only tech wolfgang has is the increased healing while wimpy. thats about it.

 

what tech are you going to say is so advanced that they can do? putting beefs to sleep during the day so they can shave?  or maybe picking up an item while you are going mighty as wolfgang to cancel the mighty animation.

How about lureplant+ twigs/grass farm? Or knowing that you can charge wx with your books? Birds of the world+sts for krampus farm?

This is already more than most characters, this isn't exactly a lot, but still, more.

For wolfgang aside from increased healing as wimpy, there's also the choice when to be wimpy, when to be regular, and when to go mighty, again not a lot, but more than most characters.

 

You also constantly bash these characters for being simpler, how about you give me examples of other characters being complex then?

[DVGMedia]

34 minutes ago, spideswine said:

You realize that a wicker setup, which will last for pretty much eternity, is cheaper than a single wendy solo?

And wicker has other things she's actually good at.

How about lureplant+ twigs/grass farm? Or knowing that you can charge wx with your books? Birds of the world+sts for krampus farm?

This is already more than most characters, this isn't exactly a lot, but still, more.

For wolfgang aside from increased healing as wimpy, there's also the choice when to be wimpy, when to be regular, and when to go mighty, again not a lot, but more than most characters.

 

You also constantly bash these characters for being simpler, how about you give me examples of other characters being complex then?

woodie doesnt need flint unlike how maxwell does. and can also live forever if you can deal with the nightmares.  that in itself is a pretty nice thing to know.

 

willow can live in summer without gear and also can completely negate sanity creatures with enough bernies. can actually fight the enraged form of the dragonfly without scalemail can fight a lot more creatures with fire than other characters stun locking those creatures. and she can also almost instantly restore all her sanity with a stack of logs and a flingo.  more broken stuff to be discovered soon....

 

wigfrid being a vampire  can basically allow her to never have to bring healing to a fight. unlike other characters. The whole algorithm of how often she gets extra stats is based on the damage you do vs the damage the monster does.  high damage low hp is actually the best.

wendy has alot of ai tricks with abigail and also the fact that you can have more than 1 ready at a given time already disowns her downsides. that and caves is so amazing for her too.

wx.. and wilson dont really have any strats as one is just a tankier faster version of the other.  And that wx can just charge himself with a telelocator staff and moslings.

maxwell can efficively act a bit like wendy aswell as to his resource farming. if you know how to manipulate follower ai and enemy ai

 

Wolfgang on his own is just a boss fighter... thats about all there is to his character.  and wicker though good alone  basically just becomes the mass basic farmer  in later servers as people just take over all the jobs that you say wicker can do.  cause i do know for sure i do get annoyed when some wicker decides to plant tentacles on my spiders or bunnymen.

you can also already mass farm krampus without birds of the world.  all you need is multiple boomerangs if you arent wendy or wes. and with wendy all you need is bunnymen to farm up krampus.

 

 

[spideswine]

28 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

woodie doesnt need flint unlike how maxwell does. and can also live forever if you can deal with the nightmares.  that in itself is a pretty nice thing to know.

And you realize it the second you turn into werebeaver form the first time, also the difference between a person who realizes this and doesn't realize this is pretty much nothing.

The wicker setups you actually need to either figure out for yourself(which is actually pretty hard), or read a guide, this is more than "turn into werebeaver once"

28 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

willow can live in summer without gear and also can completely negate sanity creatures with enough bernies. can actually fight the enraged form of the dragonfly without scalemail can fight a lot more creatures with fire than other characters stun locking those creatures. and she can also almost instantly restore all her sanity with a stack of logs and a flingo.  more broken stuff to be discovered soon....

Except for the small issue that she needs to maintain insanity to stay cold, too bad killing nightmare creatures restores sanity.

And yeah because fighting enranged dragonfly is such a great idea, you don't take fire damage woopee, never mind it's doubled attack rate and damage, such amazing utility, wow.

unfortunately bernies have a thing called durability, so they can't hold off sanity creatures forever, nevermind that sanity is pretty much never a big problem.

fighting things with fire is just not efficient in dst, though you are welcome to prove me otherwise, but either way scalemale is avaiable to all and gives full fire immunity,whereas willow only has 3 second of it.

I love the phrase "more broken stuff" even though you've listed a bunch of ****ty and minor perks.

28 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

wigfrid being a vampire  can basically allow her to never have to bring healing to a fight. unlike other characters. The whole algorithm of how often she gets extra stats is based on the damage you do vs the damage the monster does.  high damage low hp is actually the best.

So again something which it's likely gonna take you a couple of minutes playing the character to figure out.

And she still will need healing against particularly tough foes, but wolfgang generally requires just as little healing.

28 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

wendy has alot of ai tricks with abigail and also the fact that you can have more than 1 ready at a given time already disowns her downsides. that and caves is so amazing for her too.

I don't see how having multiple abigails available disowns 25% damage reduction.

Caves are also "amazing" for wigfrid, maxwell, and wx, more so than they are for wendy.

28 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Wolfgang on his own is just a boss fighter... thats about all there is to his character.  and wicker though good alone  basically just becomes the mass basic farmer  in later servers as people just take over all the jobs that you say wicker can do.  cause i do know for sure i do get annoyed when some wicker decides to plant tentacles on my spiders or bunnymen.

And woodie and maxwell are resource gathering machines, that all there is to their characters.

And wilson has nothing to his character.

And wx is just a big pile of stats.

And wigfrid is just constantly fighting+has cheap helms.

And wendy just fights weak mobs.

You're just gloryfing other characters while bashing wolf/wicker for no good reason, there's more to them than most, not by far, and not too much, but there's still more.

[DVGMedia]

5 minutes ago, spideswine said:

fighting things with fire is just not efficient in dst, though you are welcome to prove me otherwise, but either way scalemale is avaiable to all and gives full fire immunity,whereas willow only has 3 second of it.

 here is your fire proof and that isnt the only mob that this can be done to.... though every character can use this with a scalemail but willow can take advantage of it more with her resistance.

 

7 minutes ago, spideswine said:

You're just gloryfing other characters while bashing wolf/wicker for no good reason, there's more to them than most, not by far, and not too much, but there's still more.

you also are putting them to a higher pedestal than they deserve... honestly they are kind of fine as they are cause just from experience wicker loses her use over time and wolfgang inevitiabally just becomes a boss fighter.  the other characters alot more viability and even survivability in the long run.

 

[Electroely]

10 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

And how exactly dose one chop down trees at a rate almost equal to Woodie? I must know this trick...

I'm assuming it's the usage of Pigmen when chopping trees. If that's the case, I say get pigmen as Waxwell with lumberjack minions and see how THAT goes...

[spideswine]

4 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

 here is your fire proof and that isnt the only mob that this can be done to.... though every character can use this with a scalemail but willow can take advantage of it more with her resistance.

 

you also are putting them to a higher pedestal than they deserve... honestly they are kind of fine as they are cause just from experience wicker loses her use over time and wolfgang inevitiabally just becomes a boss fighter.  the other characters alot more viability and even survivability in the long run.

 

First of all: that's neat I guess.

Second: ... I generally wouldn't bother with it though.

Third: watching the video you can clearly see that 3 second of fire immunity won't help you, you either need to stay out of the fires range or wear a scale male, willow is pretty much as good at this as other characters.

Fourth: since this isn't willow specific it doesn't increase her skillcap.

4 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

you also are putting them to a higher pedestal than they deserve... honestly they are kind of fine as they are cause just from experience wicker loses her use over time and wolfgang inevitiabally just becomes a boss fighter.  the other characters alot more viability and even survivability in the long run.

 

I'm not putting them on any pedestal(unless you're talking power wise, then sure), I'm saying that they are more complex than most characters, by a very small margin, but still.