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Lumina    1,295

This was a very constructive discussion, i'm happy i saw so much good idea to improve the game here.

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ezjm    13

Even though the OP is terrible at explaining what he's trying to say, I tend to agree with him.

Clothing/Weather items - Some of the clothing items are simply not worth it, there's either another item that's way better for cheaper, or it's just underpowered by itself. Part of this comes with the desire to carry a backpack at all times except when fighting with Log Suit+. This is a really good reason to add an Armor and Backpack slot separately because as it is now, I almost never see people using any clothing except Log Suits and Backpacks. Add to the fact that some items are simply overpowered and it makes the other clothing items even more undesirable. Why bother all the effort making cool clothing when you can just use thermal stone, hats, and/or umbrellas. Some items are too powerful or too weak for what they cost, in comparison to other items. It feels like they put in a bunch of numbers early on and just never changed them and called it good.

 

Bosses - Defeating a boss doesn't really feel like a challenge or rewarding at all. You're either using cheap kiting mechanics for 5 minutes straight or setting up hundreds of traps. The bosses that you can't kite, there really is no strategy for them except spamming traps or darts. That and some of the drops and stuff you can make is simply not worth it or just way too weak or pointless. Eyebrella for example should be way more powerful/ or durable, because it's not that much better than a generic umbrella and feels like a waste even if it looks cool. There is really no reason to make an insulated pack when you can make a hibernation vest. As related to the first point I made, these items just really need to be balanced better, a quick look at the stats,rarity of ingredients, etc should make it pretty obvious they are not.

 

Game Challenge/Excitement mostly comes from Not Knowing - Now I'm not saying they can necessarily do anything about this, it's partly due to the nature of these types of games, but once you discover how the world works, it makes the game drastically more boring, no reason to go explore cause you know there's not going to be anything interesting in the corner of that birchnut biome.. after you've found chester and pig king caves etc it's like there's no reason to explore anymore, I can find everything I need within 2-3 biomes of base if placed correctly. There needs to be more sense of mystery. My suggestion would be to add more random encounters, such as hounds randomly spawning, or a horde of tree guardians coming to attack all your wooden items (not talking huge groups or huge spawn rates,but you get the idea)

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Astroknot    491
10 minutes ago, ezjm said:

This is a really good reason to add an Armor and Backpack slot separately

NO.

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ezjm    13
6 minutes ago, Astroknot said:

NO.

Please offer an actual reason instead of being like everyone else who says an Armor + Backpack slot shouldn't exist just because it doesn't exist right now. I offered actual reasons. Many of the items are never used entirely because of the fact they are combined into one slot.

Having to manage with 8 less item slots is also an extremely trivial challenge which doesn't even affect experienced players so that's not a good reason to keep them as only one slot either. It's just like the people that say adding chest slots is cheating... Yeah it's totally cheating that i want to have 6 chests in my base instead of 30. A completely trivial challenge that adds nothing to the game. And no this is not the same as saying the backpack should be huge, so don't even go there.

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Astroknot    491
1 minute ago, ezjm said:

Please offer an actual reason instead of being like everyone else who says an Armor + Backpack slot shouldn't exist just because it doesn't exist right now. I offered actual reasons. Many of the items are never used entirely because of the fact they are combined into one slot. Having to manage with 8 less item slots is also an extremely trivial challenge which doesn't even affect experienced players so that's not a good reason to keep them as only one slot either.

Managing inventory and deciding what you should bring with you is part of DS's gameplay, and also some of its challenge. The only body slot items I see never used whatsoever off the top of my head are; The Lazy Forager, Breezy Vest, and the Dapper Vest. Aside from that I've seen people use a lot of other body slot items over the backpack, cause honestly with good management of the inventory backpacks are completely unessescary. I too often don't use the backpack to use other items, and splitting the slot WILL effect how people play the game, someone else could probably explain why better such as @JohnWatson.

The biggest reason would be that this far into the games development, Klei likely will never change this gameplay mechanic (same reason goes for why Wilson will never change), as its become a staple of the game.

The End.

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CarlZalph    1,529

@_Q_

Here are some things you can try to make the game harder by self-imposing limits without needing to know modding:

  • Only eat berries as a food source and you may not replant the bushes.
  • Don't use items designed to be weapons to fight.  Means axes/shovels/pitchforks/etc are okay and spears/whips/boomerangs/etc are not.
  • Play a full pacifist and don't hit anything ever.
  • Have a crippling fear of success and do not use science stations/ancient altar.  Blueprints are fine.
  • Play Lights Out setting and forbid yourself from making torches.
  • Go immediately to the caves and never surface again.
  • Every item you craft must remain in your inventory forever more.  Self-depleting items may disappear but you may not drop or store them.  Also means making a backpack forbids you from making a piggyback or using a Krampus sack as this would cause the item to drop.
  • Don't use any armour at all.
  • Don't eat food or use items that give health.  Revival items like the meat effigy/life giving amulet are fine only for revival.
  • For every day that passes restrict an item slot in your inventory bar (Day 16 is the day you have nothing in your inventory but what you have equipped).  Do not use backpacks.
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ezjm    13
7 minutes ago, Astroknot said:

The biggest reason would be that this far into the games development, Klei likely will never change this gameplay mechanic (same reason goes for why Wilson will never change), as its become a staple of the game.

This is not any different than saying "That's how it works now, so it shouldn't change", and therefore not an actual reason. And if a mod can change it that easily, it shouldn't require any major changes to make it part of the game.

Quote

Managing inventory and deciding what you should bring with you is part of DS's gameplay

with good management of the inventory backpacks are completely unessescary

This is contradictory to saying we need them to be one slot for the added challenge, which you even admit is unnecessary which is the entire point I was saying why there is no reason to make it one slot, the challenge is trivial to anyone who is experienced, so why have it when it is making a large set of items undesirable and rarely even used? 

This also unnecessarily adds the mechanic of carrying a log suit or whatever else around for quick swapping which is also trivial and adds nothing but cheesiness. The log suit is too large to also wear a backpack at the same time, but it can fit IN the backpack???

 

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Astroknot    491
25 minutes ago, ezjm said:

This is contradictory to saying we need them to be one slot for the added challenge, which you even admit is unnecessary which is the entire point I was saying there is no reason to make it one slot, the challenge is trivial to anyone who is experienced, so why have it? 

 

cause choices.

 

I also may not have proofread what I wrote very well.

I likely wont be replying back to whatever you say next as I really do not want to argue, so lets just say you have your opinion and I have mine.

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ezjm    13
Just now, Astroknot said:

cause choices.

You're correct in that making it one slot instead of two offers us less choices, which is another downside to it. Many of the items becoming never used because we have to make a choice between backpack and body clothing, because most people don't enjoy the trivial challenge of walking for 10 extra minutes to get more stuff they'll just choose the backpack instead.

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Palecwsmalec1    712

I use a backpack slot mod on my private server with friends. Yeah it's pretty cheaty but it did get me to try out new things like wearing breezy vests and stuff like that. I'm not sure i want to see that change appear in the game but everyone plays differently.

Now, this is directed more at _Q_:

 A lot of the challenges in the game, while trivial to 2000+ hour avid gamers with huge megabases can be extremely unforgiving to less experienced ones. And i'm not just talking about casuals, mind you. You love to say that pandering to casuals and inexperienced newbies is selfish and bad, but in my opinion the game is already balanced enough without being too easy. There's a lot of food sources in the game, that IS true. But you still have to work to actually acquire that food. Want some more filler from your berry farms? either wait or take the risk to go to the swamp, get reeds and craft an Applied Horticulture (assuming you play or have a wickerbottom on your server). Missing food in Winter? Go out hunting koalefants and mine ice blocks while watching out for environmental effects. Getting general monster meat? Either fight the spiders or craft a bunch of traps (which are still a significant drain on your resources) then lay them around and lure the spiders into the traps.

Everything takes work, and depending on how well you know the game that can be either too easy or too hard. The game is more balanced for the middle and advanced crowd, where the former has fun meeting newer challenges and putting a bigger effort into surviving and learning the game even more. the latter takes advantage of the sandbox part to create terrain art, huge megabases or defeat bosses in a boss rush or craft elaborate traps to see how they work out and which kill the boss most efficiently. The problem is, if you're in the latter crowd but prefer the former, you're going to end up getting bored of the game, because nothing is a challenge anymore. But you don't feel like making art or finding new challenges.

Because they're not being handed to you on a silver platter, coated with hounds and enemies coming to kill you.

Not everything in the game is supposed to run after you to slaughter you. That's not challenge. That's tedious. Getting better goodies requires a challenge. It requires exploration, adventure and a bunch of preparation. Something you need to always remember is that, again, not everything is outright given to you for a price. You have to find it and become king of your own world. If you're not up to THAT challenge, you're free to stop playing and switch gears for a bit.

You may just find out that Don't Starve has stopped being your type of game.

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Astroknot    491
17 minutes ago, ezjm said:

You're correct in that making it one slot instead of two offers us less choices, which is another downside to it. Many of the items becoming never used because we have to make a choice between backpack and body clothing, because most people don't enjoy the trivial challenge of walking for 10 extra minutes to get more stuff they'll just choose the backpack instead.

How does having one slot instead of two offer less choices? You know what, like I said in barely readable text of the last post, you have your opinion I have mine, lets admit it you'll likely never convince me that your opinion is superior, and vice-versa, so lets not have this turn into your average argument on the internet. I'd rather not have this devolve into a meaningless back-and-forth conversation that never ends. 

So I'm just going to withdraw from this. Bye.

 

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Rily    468
24 minutes ago, ezjm said:

- This is a really good reason to add an Armor and Backpack slot separately because as it is now, I almost never see people using any clothing except Log Suits and Backpacks.

-Add to the fact that some items are simply overpowered and it makes the other clothing items even more undesirable. 

I agree, the logsuit and backpacks are the most used but that's not a problem, they are just cheaper and useful, yes there are lots of clothes but those are just options, there are so many ways to survive, you could live hunting rabbits with blowdarts and is ok, is not the most efficient way but works and that's where the game really shine, it give you lots of options to do the same thing, you must find the best for yourself, that's part of the game, discover better ways to beat the world

24 minutes ago, ezjm said:

Bosses - You're either using cheap kiting mechanics for 5 minutes straight or setting up hundreds of traps. The bosses that you can't kite, there really is no strategy for them except spamming traps or darts. 

- Eyebrella for example should be way more powerful/ or durable, because it's not that much better than a generic umbrella and feels like a waste even if it looks cool. There is really no reason to make an insulated pack when you can make a hibernation vest. As related to the first point I made, these items just really need to be balanced better, a quick look at the stats,rarity of ingredients, etc should make it pretty obvious they are not.

I can't be more in agree with the bosses, at least the classic ones are quite boring, in together they have enough health to become tedious, ANR bosses are fun because they change the rules, is not just hit and run, this could be improved giving them more randomness to the classic bosses, more different attacks or behaviours that can catch you on low guard.

However I guess the eyebrella is awesome, is quite helpfull in spring, summer and caves, killing a deerclops is not a big problem (is not a problem at all), I could even say that is too powerfull to be a drop of the weakest and easiest boss. I think the insulated pack is really useful, you can take food or living animals long distances and I think hibernation vest is not enough good, his durability is a shame and a beefalo hat is all that you need for winter, I think insulated pack is more useful. Again, is about options, all depends of how you like to play.

24 minutes ago, ezjm said:

My suggestion would be to add more random encounters, such as hounds randomly spawning, or a horde of tree guardians coming to attack all your wooden items (not talking huge groups or huge spawn rates,but you get the idea)

This sounds quite harcore for the newbies, I know there are lots of experienced players here, but remember, we were newbies once, we learned the best way to survive by playing, don't ruin the experience of learning for the new ones

 

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ezjm    13
6 minutes ago, Rily said:

This sounds quite harcore for the newbies, I know there are lots of experienced players here, but remember, we were newbies once, we learned the best way to survive by playing, don't ruin the experience of learning for the new ones

 

I'm talking later in the game, when you've discovered everything and there's no reason to go beyond 2-3 biomes of your base. But thanks for taking the time to examine each point and discuss it.

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Rily    468
24 minutes ago, ezjm said:

- This is a really good reason to add an Armor and Backpack slot separately because as it is now, I almost never see people using any clothing except Log Suits and Backpacks.

-Add to the fact that some items are simply overpowered and it makes the other clothing items even more undesirable. 

I agree, the logsuit and backpacks are the most used but that's not a problem, they are just cheaper and useful, yes there are lots of clothes but those are just options, there are so many ways to survive, you could live hunting rabbits with blowdarts and is ok, is not the most efficient way but works and that's where the game really shine, it give you lots of options to do the same thing, you must find the best for yourself, that's part of the game, discover better ways to beat the world

24 minutes ago, ezjm said:

Bosses - You're either using cheap kiting mechanics for 5 minutes straight or setting up hundreds of traps. The bosses that you can't kite, there really is no strategy for them except spamming traps or darts. 

- Eyebrella for example should be way more powerful/ or durable, because it's not that much better than a generic umbrella and feels like a waste even if it looks cool. There is really no reason to make an insulated pack when you can make a hibernation vest. As related to the first point I made, these items just really need to be balanced better, a quick look at the stats,rarity of ingredients, etc should make it pretty obvious they are not.

I can't be more in agree with the bosses, at least the classic ones are quite boring, in together they have enough health to become tedious, ANR bosses are fun because they change the rules, is not just hit and run, this could be improved giving them more randomness to the classic bosses, more different attacks or behaviours that can catch you on low guard.

However I guess the eyebrella is awesome, is quite helpfull in spring, summer and caves, killing a deerclops is not a big problem (is not a problem at all), I could even say that is too powerfull to be a drop of the weakest and easiest boss. I think the insulated pack is really useful, you can take food or living animals long distances and I think hibernation vest is not enough good, his durability is a shame and a beefalo hat is all that you need for winter, I think insulated pack is more useful. Again, is about options, all depends of how you like to play.

24 minutes ago, ezjm said:

My suggestion would be to add more random encounters, such as hounds randomly spawning, or a horde of tree guardians coming to attack all your wooden items (not talking huge groups or huge spawn rates,but you get the idea)

This sounds quite harcore for the newbies, I know there are lots of experienced players here, but remember, we were newbies once, we learned the best way to survive by playing, don't ruin the experience of learning for the new ones

 

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ezjm    13
18 minutes ago, Astroknot said:

How does having one slot instead of two offer less choices? You know what, like I said in barely readable text of the last post, you have your opinion I have mine, lets admit it you'll likely never convince me that your opinion is superior, and vice-versa.

 Mathematically, there is more choices when you have 2 slots to put items instead of just 1.

Gameplay/Difficulty wise, it's only one less trivial choice - wear a backpack or wear an armor/clothing, which I've been arguing this whole time is trivial when people simply swap out backpack and armor to workaround it doesn't make sense that one fits in the other but you can't wear them at the same time. There's already inventory management with or without this backpack feature, you're just adding more of it by making it one slot for armor/backpack.

The only single reason to have backpack and armor in the same slot, is to add the 'challenge' of walking for 4-5 more minutes to get more items and back to base, that is the only single point you can possibly argue why it exists like it does now. When if it didn't exist this way, we could have more clothing actually being used, at the removal of a challenge that can be argued adds nothing to the game.

I can see you're not interested in having an actual argument, so may I suggest don't post in the first place? This is a forum you know, and you're in a subsection specifically for discussing changes to the game. So any mention of 'this is how the game works now, so it shouldn't change' is just asinine.

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HamBatter    389
1 hour ago, ezjm said:

when people simply swap out backpack and armor to workaround it doesn't make sense that one fits in the other but you can't wear them at the same time

Always on armor isn't trivial.

Sometimes you do not want to bother dropping the backpack for a fight and that's when you get punished. Also adds risk to running insane through the dark with smaller light radius.

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HamBatter    389
On 05/05/2017 at 8:52 AM, _Q_ said:

Optional content is worthless if the game bores the hell out of me even before I can get to the optional part.

 

On 05/05/2017 at 11:07 AM, _Q_ said:

I don't sit in base, I show up there to cook some food every 4 - 5 days or so.

It looks like you have reached the point to do optional content, but you're making excuses not to do it.

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Lumina    1,295
3 hours ago, ezjm said:

Mathematically, there is more choices when you have 2 slots to put items instead of just 1.

Gameplay/Difficulty wise, it's only one less trivial choice - wear a backpack or wear an armor/clothing, which I've been arguing this whole time is trivial when people simply swap out backpack and armor to workaround it doesn't make sense that one fits in the other but you can't wear them at the same time. There's already inventory management with or without this backpack feature, you're just adding more of it by making it one slot for armor/backpack.

The only single reason to have backpack and armor in the same slot, is to add the 'challenge' of walking for 4-5 more minutes to get more items and back to base, that is the only single point you can possibly argue why it exists like it does now. When if it didn't exist this way, we could have more clothing actually being used, at the removal of a challenge that can be argued adds nothing to the game.

First, i'm not that sure you have more choice in total. Second, it's not about the number of choice but how much they matter.

Usually, when i go in caves i like wearing lantern + football helmet + backpack. Light, protection, inventory space. I saw some people use miner hat + armor, and it was working fine for them.

With one slot for armor and one for backpack ? Is it really creating different choice, not really, it's just a free backpack. So you reduce the importance of a choice, making it less hard, making it less meaningfull. Sure, maybe i'll use more often some clothes for sanity/insulation, but the choice between armor or backpack will disappears.

Also, you forgot amulet. I would really like being able to have amulet + backpack + protection.

 

So no, it will not necessarily be better for choice.

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JohnWatson    1,579

Stop acting like the backpack is needed 100% of the time. It isn't. You have 15 slots, that's a lot. Adding a backpack and amulet slot does not give you more choices, it gives you less choices because you can wear more chest slot items simultaneously. It just makes the game easier, just use a mod.

If you know how to manage your inventory and discipline yourself to stop picking up everything, then you will find yourself having 7-11 free slots most of the time. The backpack is a tool, not a necessity. You can choose to wear it all the time, or you can choose not to. A lot of people choose to wear other chest slot items because they find that they play more effectively that way: https://redd.it/2xsshk/

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_Q_    471
On 6.05.2017 at 10:37 PM, Astroknot said:

cause choices.

 

I also may not have proofread what I wrote very well.

I likely wont be replying back to whatever you say next as I really do not want to argue, so lets just say you have your opinion and I have mine.

Choices?

So the only choice is thermal stone, if you wnat to carry a backpack that is, and chaces are high you want to carry a backpack, just for additional inventory slots as chester is annoying to drag around and there is only one chester in DST anyway, most optimal would be Krampus Sack.

Thermal stone + hat of choice just destroys winter and summer, and summer is now 15 days instead of standard 20.

There is nothing happening in the game, beside some hounds every now and then, but you can use bush hat and look hounds killing spiders or whatever else you have near to distract them.

Summer time is very light, you wont even run out of basic grass and twigs, there is really no need to get something special for that season, nor it brings anything special, like all other seasons for that matter.

Nothing will happen if you don't want it to happen, so we could just take out the last bits of hunger and sanity, leave just HP and let people wander around and build walls and place statues and what not and go kill some boss every now and then if they get to bored of building.

 

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19 hours ago, _Q_ said:

Choices?

So the only choice is thermal stone, if you wnat to carry a backpack that is, and chaces are high you want to carry a backpack, just for additional inventory slots as chester is annoying to drag around and there is only one chester in DST anyway, most optimal would be Krampus Sack.

Thermal stone + hat of choice just destroys winter and summer, and summer is now 15 days instead of standard 20.

There is nothing happening in the game, beside some hounds every now and then, but you can use bush hat and look hounds killing spiders or whatever else you have near to distract them.

Summer time is very light, you wont even run out of basic grass and twigs, there is really no need to get something special for that season, nor it brings anything special, like all other seasons for that matter.

Nothing will happen if you don't want it to happen, so we could just take out the last bits of hunger and sanity, leave just HP and let people wander around and build walls and place statues and what not and go kill some boss every now and then if they get to bored of building.

 

There is nothing any of us can say that will make you.

if your sick of dst play something else klei can't fix it for you now

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_Q_    471
1 hour ago, JustAPineapple said:

There is nothing any of us can say that will make you.

if your sick of dst play something else klei can't fix it for you now

Game is not balanced, thats a fact.

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Ninjanemo    5,820
3 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Game is not balanced, thats a fact.

stock-photo-happy-female-doctor-is-pointing-at-whiteboard-and-looking-at-camera-excited-female-doctor-pointing-432198643.jpg

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_Q_    471
1 minute ago, Ninjanemo said:

stock-photo-happy-female-doctor-is-pointing-at-whiteboard-and-looking-at-camera-excited-female-doctor-pointing-432198643.jpg

Hat gives you the same amount of protection from cold weather as vest, logic and balance much.

Spiders drop the same amount of meat as a dog that is few times bigger, again logic and balance.

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