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Bystander

I pirated your game and now I want to pay for it.

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Bystander    3

Hello, I suppose most people won't admit to pirating games but I do. Mainly because I usually have no means to pay for them (Living off disability welfare). However Oxygen Not Included is an amazing game even if there aren't any goals in place besides basic survival yet and, as such, I wish to support it. Sadly, I currently can't. $21.99 is a very fair deal (thank you for not adding massive inflation when selling to Canadians!) but my lack of a credit card and not being able to pay via paypal with my debit is... well my question is, is there any way to set up direct E-transfers in the future?

Sorry in advance if I offend anyone with this topic.

 

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AlexRou    187

If you have a debit card that says visa/mastercard/american express it should work on steam. Or if you can somehow obtain bitcoin ...

Paypal even works, why can't you use it? You can't buy a game directly but you can add funds to your wallet with ti.

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Ecu    515

Additionally, if you are wary about using your credit/debit card over Steam, you could go to a local store that offers Steam cards and purchase enough Steam credit to afford the game.  This would allow you to either use your credit/debit card or even straight cash to make a purchase.  The only downside with this method is that you will have to purchase a Steam card that covers the purchase, which may mean getting more than you need.  

Suppose that's just a reason to try other games on Steam as well.

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Bystander    3

My debit has nothing fancy on it. Paypal makes me nervous.They ask for too much personal information (Paranoia issues...).

Ecu, thank you for the suggestion. I'll go try looking for that on monday. ^.^

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Kruleworld    28
28 minutes ago, Bystander said:

Paypal makes me nervous.They ask for too much personal information (Paranoia issues...).

i have a Mastercard debit card, if i don't put any money onto it, it'll just fail the transaction. no one can siphon this account, because i only  put in what i'm spending on that specific transaction. I've had no issues with Paypal in the decade i've been using them... especially safe if you only use them for purchases. There are far bigger crooks on the internet that PP.

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mr_anderson    57

I pirate most games before buying them, including ONI. So far id say its definitely worth my moneys. Ive spent at least 10 hours on pirate and 45 from when I bought it and im still not bored. And that is unlike me at all, i usually get bored after just 20 hours playing the same game, but klei games have such a unique atmosphere i just cant stop playing.

edit: Also having a total blast playing the new update (thermal upgrade)

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Ecu    515
1 hour ago, mr_anderson said:

I pirate most games before buying them, including ONI. So far id say its definitely worth my moneys. Ive spent at least 10 hours on pirate and 45 from when I bought it and im still not bored. And that is unlike me at all, i usually get bored after just 20 hours playing the same game, but klei games have such a unique atmosphere i just cant stop playing.

edit: Also having a total blast playing the new update (thermal upgrade)

You sir, are horrible.  There is almost never a reason to pirate games.  Even if you only get 10 hours of entertainment out of a $50.00 game, that is still a better value than you will get from nearly any other form of paid entertainment ever.  Rather than pirating games, you should research the game and choose not to play it at all if you don't feel it is worth paying for.

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Vilda    157
26 minutes ago, Ecu said:

  There is almost never a reason to pirate games.

There are valid reasons. The most notable one is today's lack of demos - you can never know for sure the game will run. Or The game being presented as something that you enjoy but it is not. Introduction of digital return offsets that a bit, but 2 hour limit is often not enough to judge a game. Also, AFAIK steam returns that as a wallet credit so money still not recoverable. Not sure never used that myself might be direct cash back.

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Ecu    515
Just now, Vilda said:

There are valid reasons. The most notable one is today's lack of demos - you can never know for sure the game will run. Or The game being presented as something that you enjoy but it is not. Introduction of digital return offsets that a bit, but 2 hour limit is often not enough to judge a game. Also, AFAIK steam returns that as a wallet credit so money still not recoverable. Not sure never used that myself might be direct cash back.

Those are never reasons to pirate a game.  If you are unsure if it will run, ask the developer/community.  Do your research before you purchase instead.  

As for Steam returning funds to wallet credit, rather than your card...generally speaking that isn't an issue either.  A majority of people that use Steam to buy one game, will likely do so to buy another.  As such, a return as Steam funds just means you've got money aside for your next purchase.

I'm saying all this as someone who is poor with little money for games in general.  Nonetheless, I still cannot justify pirating at a game.

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Vilda    157
2 minutes ago, Ecu said:

 If you are unsure if it will run, ask the developer/community.  Do your research before you purchase instead.  

Yeah, no. Any answer you can get will cover only min specifications (which can be off mark) and your OS. Nobody can answer how it will run on a specific PC with specific software installed affecting it's performance or hardware wear issues.

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AlexRou    187

Lets not turn this into a philosophical debate on the ethics of pirating a game.Not sure how the mods feel about it.

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Ecu    515
Just now, Vilda said:

Yeah, no. Any answer you can get will cover only min specifications (which can be off mark) and your OS. Nobody can answer how it will run on a specific PC with specific software installed affecting it's performance or hardware wear issues.

I'm sorry, but I've never bought a game I was worried might not run on my system.  I just didn't play it then.  No one is entitled to a game.

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ImDaMisterL    17,419
2 minutes ago, AlexRou said:

Lets not turn this into a philosophical debate on the ethics of pirating a game.Not sure how the mods feel about it.

Well, the OP already got their answers. If everyone remains civil and polite, I see no problem with it.

I'll be watching, though. ;)

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Vilda    157
2 minutes ago, Ecu said:

I'm sorry, but I've never bought a game I was worried might not run on my system.  I just didn't play it then.  No one is entitled to a game.

But you should be allowed to check over and try your purchase. It is a common practice everywhere else. And when the developer does not release a demo (which used to be a common practice) what can you do?

@AlexRou is though right, this is not the best platform for such discussion.

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ImDaMisterL    17,419
4 minutes ago, Vilda said:

this is not the best platform for such discussion.

There're always the PMs, if you guys still want to talk about this, but not in public.

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Ecu    515
2 minutes ago, Vilda said:

But you should be allowed to check over and try your purchase. It is a common practice everywhere else. And when the developer does not release a demo (which used to be a common practice) what can you do?

No, you have no rights to something you did not purchase.  If a developer does not release a demo to their game and you do not trust the developer to make a game that works for you, then you should not purchase it.

2 minutes ago, Vilda said:

@AlexRou is though right, this is not the best platform for such discussion.

As @ImDaMisterL has no issue with the discussion continuing, I don't see why it needs to stop.

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Vilda    157

I think we know where we both stand and there is not much of a chance to change opinion.

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Ecu    515
1 minute ago, Vilda said:

I think we know where we both stand and there is not much of a chance to change opinion.

Well, I would honestly state that your position cannot be a correct one as pirating of games is illegal.  No amount of justification will change this.  Regardless of the reasons behind the act, it is still a wrong thing to do.

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Vilda    157

And that is why the world needs lawyers :)

It is my opinion that if the developer can't satisfy your right as a customer to try a product before purchase, there in no moral wrong using piracy as a demo version. I make no case for games that offer a demo. I would not make it even in ONI's case, because the game was not published yet.

Legally of course you are committing a wrong, because EULA, but who never jaywalked?

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Ecu    515
12 minutes ago, Vilda said:

And that is why the world need lawyers :)

It is my opinion that if the developer can't satisfy your right as a customer to try a product before purchase, there in no moral wrong using piracy as a demo version. I make no case for games that offer a demo. I would not make it even in ONI's case, because the game was not published yet.

Legally of course you are committing a wrong, because EULA, but who never jaywalked?

Actually, there is a very moral wrong in pirating of games, as you do not have any right to play games.  None.  Just because you might want to play it, and it doesn't have a demo, does not entitle you to pirate it to try it before you buy it.  If you cannot trust a developer to provide a game that works for you, don't play it...period.  There is no justification for taking the work of someone else without permission.

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gopuri    3
37 minutes ago, Vilda said:

I think we know where we both stand and there is not much of a chance to change opinion.

Attempt to be civil and just drop discusssion in a mature way.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Well, I would honestly state that your position cannot be a correct one as pirating of games is illegal.  No amount of justification will change this.  Regardless of the reasons behind the act, it is still a wrong thing to do.

NOPPEEEEE!!!

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Ecu    515

@gopuri I'm sorry if you feel that I lack maturity in refusing to accept this as a difference of opinion.  I feel it is very important to refute any justification for piracy as it is taking the labor of another without permission.  This is not only illegal, but hard to morally justify as doing so would be akin to a justification for slavery.

Given that there can be many impressionable youth utilizing this forum, it is better to set an good example by fighting against piracy.

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Asanax    12
28 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Actually, there is a very moral wrong in pirating of games, as you do not have any right to play games.  None.  Just because you might want to play it, and it doesn't have a demo, does not entitle you to pirate it to try it before you buy it.  If you cannot trust a developer to provide a game that works for you, don't play it...period.  There is no justification for taking the work of someone else without permission.

I'm a game developer myself, and I actually disagree with this. If you're familiar with Super Meat Boy, I share the stance of Edmund McMillen on pirating. That aside, law has nothing to do with morals; it's not wrong to do something because it's illegal. It was once legal to own slaves, does that mean it was a perfectly right and good thing to do before the law was passed? It was briefly illegal to drink alcohol, and some countries still outlaw it - was it morally wrong for a handful of years, or was it simply not allowed? Am I a bad person if I drink in a country where it's illegal, even if I could take 5 steps and it would be legal? (It would be dumb, that's not what I'm asking though)

My outlook is that morality and legality are entirely separate things, and I don't think morality has a point in the discussion, since I don't think it's morally wrong to pirate a game. Take this for example; most products, you can have them for at least 30 days before you completely evaluate if it's right for you, before you take it back. This can be something as vital as an oven, as useful as a vacuum, or as needless as a hair dryer. You can do this with physical copies of games at many places, like Walmart for example. You get your entire money back, after having a game for 720 hours. If it's morally wrong for someone to evaluate a game online for 10 hours, why is it not morally wrong to take back a product that you did not like?

I'm not saying that people shouldn't buy games - as I said at the start, I'm a game developer. People should support the games and developers that they love, no question. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a hands-on, real world trial of a game. Otherwise demos would be 'wrong', right?

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