Willow nightmare farming tip

[Luckcu13]

He is not being insulting, he is just being extremely blunt and honest with his opinion.

There is just far too much effort put into making this farm anywhere near effective, with only the payout of nightmare fuel, especially regarding the nightmare amulet. It takes much less setup to just simply wait in the ruins and kill nightmare creatures during the nightmare cycle, in addition to getting loot like bananas, gears, thulucite, slurper pelts, and blue mushrooms. In addition, if you know how to kite Them (which is woefully easy to do, even the Terrorbeaks) or even Shadow Splumonkies (which are even more woefully easy), you have no need to have Burnie on you in the first place. Quite literally a waste of inventory space for very few situations which can be dealt better in other ways.

Honestly, the time spent on Willow and her strategies is much better spent on other characters with much more unique benefits and less issues than her. For example, Wes.

[thistownneedsguns]

i will try it out as willow.. but in my opinion maxwell is the one who can easily get nightmare fuels, nightmare fuel character ^^

[Rellimarual]

It would be awesome if topic discussions did not devolve into a gaggle of bantam roosters strutting around the barnyard with their chest feathers puffed out

[Sicko Hog]

Are we not allowed to do anything but praise somebody if they post here? Mantas posted about using bernie for nightmare farming, people pointed out that it's inefficient and can be done better with less resources as any character. I don't see any "strutting around the barnyard" here, I just see people being blunt about what they think is a dumb idea.

[Tosh]

1 hour ago, JellyUltra said:

Are we not allowed to do anything but praise somebody if they post here? Mantas posted about using bernie for nightmare farming, people pointed out that it's inefficient and can be done better with less resources as any character. I don't see any "strutting around the barnyard" here, I just see people being blunt about what they think is a dumb idea.

Well I don't think anyone is saying that we should laud Mantas simply for the fact that he posted something. Some people were critical of the idea, but backed it with reason. However, a lot of the people posting here were downright insulting, calling his idea "embarrassing" and outright saying he didn't know how to play the game because they didn't understand it properly (etc.).

Yeah other characters may be better at fighting shadow creatures, but that actually adds to Mantas' system. Wolfgang is better at dealing damage to shadows, while Maxwell it better at staying insane, but they can both become better with the help of Willow. What I'm taking away from this thread are ideas that make a character I honestly haven't touched in DST seem a lot more fun and useful.

[The Curator]

9 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Fixed that for you.

The idea is supposed to be that Wolfgang can go into mega mode at the cost of food, while Wigfrid gets to be moderately powerful all the time with more constant negative aspects. But Wigfrid really does not have negative aspects, and her combined abilities make her about 2.25x stronger then the average character is you compile their effects all together.

 

Never played or seen Wolfgang used extensively, so cannot comment on how balanced he really is. But Wigfrid's absurd effectiveness in every scenario with no downside and WX-78's ability to become supercharged indefinitely is horrid. Wigfrid is easy mode. Wes is hard mode, if you play as Wigfrid you are legitimately turning on easy mode.

[Frosty_Mentos]

3 hours ago, Tosh said:

Well I don't think anyone is saying that we should laud Mantas simply for the fact that he posted something. Some people were critical of the idea, but backed it with reason. However, a lot of the people posting here were downright insulting, calling his idea "embarrassing" and outright saying he didn't know how to play the game because they didn't understand it properly (etc.).

What's a Klei forum, without people coming to a topic, not following the idea then just making the one's idea sound like his mind is just a pile of dirt?

[Rellimarual]

I don't mind disagreement, but the chest-thumping overkill really gets old fast. 

[JohnWatson]

5 hours ago, Tosh said:

Well I don't think anyone is saying that we should laud Mantas simply for the fact that he posted something. Some people were critical of the idea, but backed it with reason. However, a lot of the people posting here were downright insulting, calling his idea "embarrassing" and outright saying he didn't know how to play the game because they didn't understand it properly (etc.).

Yeah other characters may be better at fighting shadow creatures, but that actually adds to Mantas' system. Wolfgang is better at dealing damage to shadows, while Maxwell it better at staying insane, but they can both become better with the help of Willow. What I'm taking away from this thread are ideas that make a character I honestly haven't touched in DST seem a lot more fun and useful.

To be frank, I have been unreasonably hostile towards Mantas. Do know that I still hold respect towards Mantas, I merely believed that he didn't know what he was talking about until he proved that it works. I must admit that I should have tested this in-game first before calling it out very harshly. I've said before that I hate nobody and that I can be convinced. So, I apologise for being so hostile and I hope I may never make the same mistake again. 

About the tip itself, it worked better than I actually expected. I still don't think it's worth making though. However, this maybe could be used as a luxury late-game, with increased efficiency the more players you have. It may be a good late-game alternative if you have no combat characters like Wigfrid or Wolfgang on the team.

[Toros]

6 hours ago, The Curator said:

The idea is supposed to be that Wolfgang can go into mega mode at the cost of food, while Wigfrid gets to be moderately powerful all the time with more constant negative aspects. But Wigfrid really does not have negative aspects, and her combined abilities make her about 2.25x stronger then the average character is you compile their effects all together.

 

Never played or seen Wolfgang used extensively, so cannot comment on how balanced he really is. But Wigfrid's absurd effectiveness in every scenario with no downside and WX-78's ability to become supercharged indefinitely is horrid. Wigfrid is easy mode. Wes is hard mode, if you play as Wigfrid you are legitimately turning on easy mode.

Even putting Wigfrid in the same role as Wolfgang is absurd.  Her lack of ability to eat mushrooms and butterfly wings is already a massive downside, him getting 2x damage to her 1.25x, and his speed boost literally gives her no meaningful advantage.  There is no purpose for which Wolfgang does not outclass Wigfrid by a large margin.  I wouldn't even put her in the top half of the characters.

7 hours ago, Tosh said:

Well I don't think anyone is saying that we should laud Mantas simply for the fact that he posted something. Some people were critical of the idea, but backed it with reason. However, a lot of the people posting here were downright insulting, calling his idea "embarrassing" and outright saying he didn't know how to play the game because they didn't understand it properly (etc.).

Yeah other characters may be better at fighting shadow creatures, but that actually adds to Mantas' system. Wolfgang is better at dealing damage to shadows, while Maxwell it better at staying insane, but they can both become better with the help of Willow. What I'm taking away from this thread are ideas that make a character I honestly haven't touched in DST seem a lot more fun and useful.

Willow doesn't contribute anything meaningful to harvesting nightmare fuel.  Literally any other character is equally effective at farming nightmare fuel, does not require a heat source or freeze, and 10 bernies are ridiculous waste of resources and not even being used in the video.

 

As is often the case, about half the people on the dst forums have absolutely no idea what they're talking about but are confidently expressing strong opinions.  Willow does not have any useful purpose in dst.  She excels at nothing, and has a crippling weakness in freezing while insane.

 

This isn't a Willow use because she might be slightly more efficient with a massive resource investment.. but Wilson is 95% effective with no additional setup and both wolfgang and maxwell are superior at nightmare fuel gathering.

 

It's hardly even an optimization over a firepit and 0 bernies being involved.

9 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

It would be awesome if topic discussions did not devolve into a gaggle of bantam roosters strutting around the barnyard with their chest feathers puffed out

This is hilarious.  The analogy is more similar to a bunch of kindergartners discussing politics with an informed adult in the room, because that is roughly the gap in knowledge and ability to articulate it between what I've read and what John has expressed.

 

The tip is not a tip.  Defending it as legitimate means you're wrong.  I don't have any interest in debating it, as John does, because some of you would need to learn a lot more before that would be worthwhile.  No sense pointing out giant holes in your strategy until you learn to recognize them yourself. 

[thistownneedsguns]

well its a helpful idea for people who enjoy playing willow. 

[Frosty_Mentos]

5 hours ago, Toros said:

Willow doesn't contribute anything meaningful to harvesting nightmare fuel.

Pardon, but please leave Willow out of this topic. It's all about the teddybear.

Willow is more early game character in the world that you might have troubles in, great for joining the server that's pretty old and a lot of people usually just base on their own or groups, and doesn't want new people being in their bases (no offence pls).

[Luckcu13]

25 minutes ago, Mantas said:

Pardon, but please leave Willow out of this topic. It's all about the teddybear.

Sorry, but you're gonna have to play Willow if you want everyone to get a not particularly useful teddy bear. So she's gonna get involved no matter what.

[Frosty_Mentos]

fair enough

[Rellimarual]

6 hours ago, Toros said:

This is hilarious.  The analogy is more similar to a bunch of kindergartners discussing politics with an informed adult in the room, because that is roughly the gap in knowledge and ability to articulate it between what I've read and what John has expressed.

You miss the point. Mantas never claimed that Willow is the best character or better at farming nightmare fuel than any other character. He never engaged in any pissing-match style behavior. For whatever reason, he likes to play as Willow. Maybe he finds it a challenge or maybe he just likes the way she looks and sounds. Each of those reasons is just as legitimate as any other reason, because DST is a GAME and the only thing that really matters is that players have fun with it.

His tip was offered in a spirit of generosity and fun to other people with the same preference. The response was a bunch of insults and chest-thumping about who is the best player and knows the most about the game. John was big enough to apologize for that, which is great. But the testosterone level around this still needs to be turned down several notches; whatever you have to prove, please try to prove it elsewhere. It would be a shame if other players felt inhibited about contributing to the forums because they might be called names or otherwise hassled by people who have the idea there is only one right way to play the game. There is nothing "adult" about such behavior, and it's a collossal drag to everyone who comes here to discuss DST in a spirit of fun, silliness, experiment and exploration.

[Toros]

4 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

You miss the point. Mantas never claimed that Willow is the best character or better at farming nightmare fuel than any other character. He never engaged in any pissing-match style behavior. For whatever reason, he likes to play as Willow. Maybe he finds it a challenge or maybe he just likes the way she looks and sounds. Each of those reasons is just as legitimate as any other reason, because DST is a GAME and the only thing that really matters is that players have fun with it.

His tip was offered in a spirit of generosity and fun to other people with the same preference. The response was a bunch of insults and chest-thumping about who is the best player and knows the most about the game. John was big enough to apologize for that, which is great. But the testosterone level around this still needs to be turned down several notches; whatever you have to prove, please try to prove it elsewhere. It would be a shame if other players felt inhibited about contributing to the forums because they might be called names or otherwise hassled by people who have the idea there is only one right way to play the game. There is nothing "adult" about such behavior, and it's a collossal drag to everyone who comes here to discuss DST in a spirit of fun, silliness, experiment and exploration.

Your "toxic masculinity" angle is a ridiculous reach, and the issue with "tip" is not about competition but that it is factually untrue.

OP claimed that nightmare farming was "a strength of willow" and that it was "hugely more" rewarding than just using a hambat and kiting.  Both of these are objectively false.

They then suggest making 10 bernies and repairing them with sewing kits.  For the nightmare fuel this is a massive waste of resources.

If OP wasn't trying to make false claims, they wouldn't be called out on it.  But what I find more annoying is your in particular brand of aggressive anti-intellectualism where you think facts aren't as important as encouraging anyone and everyone to share their opinion.

People like you stifling informed discussion is why Warly was unnecessarily nerfed to trash tier.

Also, if you're framing an interest in facts as masculine then the logical correlation is that a disinterest in facts you believe to be feminine.  That's pretty sexist of you.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Spoiler

I actually don't even care what people say at this point right now

I found this way useful for me, so I at least I hope some people finds it useful. The least I wanna do is just argue, so wherever floats your boats.

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey guys, let's be a bit more friendly, there's no need for unconstructive remarks about each other.

This thread is for discussing the farming idea itself. If you don't like it, you can state why, but let's try to be more civil regarding how we do it, okay?

By the way @JohnWatson, I really liked the way you acted up there, it was really awesome!

[Frosty_Mentos]

As far as I can say, there are many ways to farm nightmare fuel no matter the perks, the Bernie nightmare strat is the cheapest way to farm nightmare fuel for me due to materials I horde after a long period of time. Nightmare fuel is mostly just obtainable by fighting, like shadows or monkeys, myself I find monkeys most risky (and disgusting) way to farm nightmare fuel, yet it's not full guarantee that you will get a nightmare fuel from every monkey. I am just trying to show an alternative way to do something instead of showing off. I must say that the worst job for me to do is just farming nightmares just to have enough fuel to make swords for the next 20-40 days, which usually for me without Bernies or the amulet takes about 15 days, and fuel is used in many ways and it gets used fast. Don't think that I am some person who doesn't know how to farm them at all, I just simply use a lot on structures, weapons, armor and magic, so it is just natural that it runs out fast, so by my opinion, the Bernie thing is most efficient use for the materials that piles up overtime, and everything is just really easilly renewable. Besides Willow's debuff, Bernie gives her something unique to her, the one who is nutty for fire has a power to animate a teddybear, who will protect her from her gaze of destruction.

[Toros]

47 minutes ago, Mantas said:

As far as I can say, there are many ways to farm nightmare fuel no matter the perks, the Bernie nightmare strat is the cheapest way to farm nightmare fuel for me due to materials I horde after a long period of time. Nightmare fuel is mostly just obtainable by fighting, like shadows or monkeys, myself I find monkeys most risky (and disgusting) way to farm nightmare fuel, yet it's not full guarantee that you will get a nightmare fuel from every monkey. I am just trying to show an alternative way to do something instead of showing off. I must say that the worst job for me to do is just farming nightmares just to have enough fuel to make swords for the next 20-40 days, which usually for me without Bernies or the amulet takes about 15 days, and fuel is used in many ways and it gets used fast. Don't think that I am some person who doesn't know how to farm them at all, I just simply use a lot on structures, weapons, armor and magic, so it is just natural that it runs out fast, so by my opinion, the Bernie thing is most efficient use for the materials that piles up overtime, and everything is just really easilly renewable. Besides Willow's debuff, Bernie gives her something unique to her, the one who is nutty for fire has a power to animate a teddybear, who will protect her from her gaze of destruction.

I'm really curious why 10 bernies are used in the first place in something you're claiming to be efficient.  It looks really superfluous.  If I have 18 beard hair lying around (I never get it unless I intend to)  I'd rather make some meat effigies instead.

What I think you found was a willow specific luxury way of producing nightmare fuel slightly faster than just using food to keep your sanity low while you farm shadows.

But any way you analyze it you reach the same conclusion: it's not as good as what other characters can do, it requires a ton of materials to set up, and it's really not clear what advantage 10 bernies have over 2 bernies.

[Frosty_Mentos]

There is few ways to get beard hair: Bunnies with an awful chance, monkeys, who has 50% chance and beardlords, who gives 2 each per kill, the beard hair is just not a problem.

The more the Bernies, the more the nightmares agros on them I stead of you. All bernies has 1000 hp each and tanks every hit. Having a giant horde of nightmares attacking them can kinda damage them, tho repairing with sewing kit a fully broken one regens 1000 HP. Sewing kit is worth 5000HP

[Auth]

1 hour ago, Toros said:

it's really not clear what advantage 10 bernies have over 2 bernies.

The more bernies, the more dancing, and if you can put the bernies in good locations then the nightmares will just pinball between them without ever hitting them, and, by extension, you.

This is for if you wanna throw some shadow festival where everyone around you can just face tank the nightmares and get a huge payout of nightmare fuel.

 

As for people saying you shouldn't use the amulet, note that the amulet seems to hype up the spawn chances of nightmares around you, wheras just plain being insane doesn't so much.

This is a great thing to do late game, especially if you're getting low on fuel. Because you'll usually have multiple stacks of both red and blue gems in late game which you can just duct tape together to make them purple, as 1st grade arts & crafts tells us.

as for sewing kits, you're not gonna need to use these a lot them seeing as they heal him from 0% to 100% in one use, so you can effectively leave bernie to die and you can just pop your mercy ultimate "some log, teeth ripped from a dog's mouth, and dead spider silk" and revive that bad boy with full Hs and Ps whenever you darn feel like it. And again, silk and hound teeth are usually something you'll have stockpiled in the millions late game.

And sure, this isn't necessary. You don't need to make bernies, you can just kite them all and what not. But if a random willow joins your world, why not get them to manufacture bernies for the whole crew? You can whip up beard hair super quick by making traps and equipping said amulet and slaughtering all the bunnies in your inventory. Or by killing nightmare splumonkeys, but that's just overachieving at that point, you nerd.

 

[HamBatter]

After the initial cost it's low risk and low maintenance (provided amulets not being used) enough that it might enable you to idle for short amounts of time.

[Rellimarual]

If you spend any serious time farming monkeys you have more beard hair than you know what to do with. I end up burning it for fuel. It may not look like much, but it's as good as a log, if not better and in a way, since you're already killing the monkeys, it's easier than planting and chopping trees down there.

[AniMike]

No flaming hot Cheeto is Fast or Mighty enough to take down Nightmares like me, Mr. Muscle Man!