Joshu145 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 A generator that takes in steam gas and outputs water plus a small amount of heat. would be a good "end" game creation since most people are turning contaminated water into steam then into water. It would also make sense. It could lower the tempature of the steam to just around it's condensation point. :edit: The generator would be a means of producing energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_anderson Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 yeah that wouldnt be a bad idea necessarily though there is a way to convert steam back to water using a technique, i saw it on youtube. I have tried converting contaminated water to steam but the temperature got so hot i was unable to turn it back to water, so it would benefit inexperienced players more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It is already planned for the game update due out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Saturnus said: It is already planned for the game update due out tomorrow. I didn't see it anywhere in this. http://oxygennotincludedfr.blogspot.com/2017/03/klei-preview-of-first-content-patch-of.html 6 minutes ago, mr_anderson said: yeah that wouldnt be a bad idea necessarily though there is a way to convert steam back to water using a technique, i saw it on youtube. I have tried converting contaminated water to steam but the temperature got so hot i was unable to turn it back to water, so it would benefit inexperienced players more. My idea to transform steam is to get it just hot enough to turn to steam then pump through thermo regulator. and if i wanted to have an intermediary storage room for steam put it in a mined out chamber of abyssalite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The steam geyser. They spend quite a bit of time talking about it. And there's a cold biome. Combine the two in a clever way, and hey presto, you got a water source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Saturnus said: The steam geyser. They spend quite a bit of time talking about it. And there's a cold biome. Combine the two in a clever way, and hey presto, you got a water source Sorry i didn't mean to make it unclear. The steam generator would be a means of producing energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Joshu145 said: Sorry i didn't mean to make it unclear. The steam generator would be a means of producing energy Maybe you should indicate that in the original post as it doesn't actually say that anywhere. 23 minutes ago, Joshu145 said: A generator that takes in steam gas and outputs water plus a small amount of heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Saturnus said: Maybe you should indicate that in the original post as it doesn't actually say that anywhere. I'm not sure many other ways to take the word "generator" And i did edit the original post. Especially a generator that takes "in" steam gas and outputs water and heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Just change the last word of the first line to energy, so it reads: "A generator that takes in steam gas and outputs water plus a small amount of energy. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonDegow Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Smart move Saturnus as heat is energy anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimeo Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Although heat is energy, it's not useful energy. Not trying to be pedantic, just that fewer thermodynamics issues here, the better To get energy from heat, you need a heat gradient -- hot one place, cold another. If everything is equally hot, no energy is gained. In a steam generator, for example, if steam is on both sides of the turbine blades of equal temperature, the blades wouldn't move. It has to be hotter on one side, more pressurized. Same for stirling engines, thermocouples, or any other method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Crimeo said: Although heat is energy, it's not useful energy. Not trying to be pedantic, just that fewer thermodynamics issues here, the better To get energy from heat, you need a heat gradient -- hot one place, cold another. If everything is equally hot, no energy is gained. In a steam generator, for example, if steam is on both sides of the turbine blades of equal temperature, the blades wouldn't move. It has to be hotter on one side, more pressurized. Same for stirling engines, thermocouples, or any other method. Not entirely true considering we can control the amount of pressure(irl). temperature doesn't directly equate to pressure. I meant for it to give off heat and energy because energy conversion is never 100% efficient. also, it needs to balance in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimeo Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 11 hours ago, Joshu145 said: Not entirely true considering we can control the amount of pressure(irl). temperature doesn't directly equate to pressure. I meant for it to give off heat and energy because energy conversion is never 100% efficient. also, it needs to balance in the game The pressure in a steam engine comes entirely from heating. Yes you could push on the gas in a cylinder directly, for example, but that would be pointless in the case of a steam engine, because you'd be using energy to make less energy. Unless you have a constant free source of pushing (like a hydro dam) but if so you're probably not using steam engines in the first place *shrug* Game balance: If you make thermodynamics work reasonably properly, the game would be FORCED to be balanced as a result anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 8 hours ago, Crimeo said: The pressure in a steam engine comes entirely from heating. Yes you could push on the gas in a cylinder directly, for example, but that would be pointless in the case of a steam engine, because you'd be using energy to make less energy. Unless you have a constant free source of pushing (like a hydro dam) but if so you're probably not using steam engines in the first place *shrug* Game balance: If you make thermodynamics work reasonably properly, the game would be FORCED to be balanced as a result anyway. A typical steam engine works by having a boiling chamber then releasing steam into a piston chamber that forces the piston back to do pressure. You are correct that the pressure is created from the steam. But in this setup we can control the amount of pressure inside each cylinder. the piston chamber is designed with an opening at the back stroke of the piston so when it's fully "open" it releases the pressure out of the chamber allow the piston to cycle forward all the way. When the pressure leaves the piston chamber we control the amount of pressure in each cylinder, because we can close the valve coming the the boiling chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I've been thinking about this a bit and I honestly don't think a traditional steam engine is in line with the spirit of the game. A better choice would be a more generic thermo-generator, it could take the form of a steam turbine, a stirling engine, or a Peltier element. In any case it should just have 2 inputs, one hot, one cold, and one output. These could be both liquid or gas, and the power produced would be based on the thermal differential and type of the inputs. It should naturally be radiate heat as anything that produces power, and the output should be something that is a mix of the two inputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Saturnus said: I've been thinking about this a bit and I honestly don't think a traditional steam engine is in line with the spirit of the game. A better choice would be a more generic thermo-generator, it could take the form of a steam turbine, a stirling engine, or a Peltier element. In any case it should just have 2 inputs, one hot, one cold, and one output. These could be both liquid or gas, and the power produced would be based on the thermal differential and type of the inputs. It should naturally be radiate heat as anything that produces power, and the output should be something that is a mix of the two inputs. I like that idea, good balance because of a mixture coming out. I seriously can not wait for mod support. This game has the most potential i think for just fun sciency breaking the game **** haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimeo Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Joshu145 said: when it's fully "open" it releases the pressure out of the chamber allow the piston to cycle forward all the way. Yes, which means that on both strokes, there's a pressure differential between the hot steam and the colder venting steam. Which, on both strokes, comes entirely from the temperature difference. If the atmosphere were equally hot as the boiler, then neither stroke would do anything, no matter how you ever designed the engine, with any combination of valves, etc. (unless you put in some other form of external energy, defeating the purpose). Quote more generic thermo-generator Yes, definitely this! If you're going to make it that generic and abstract, you might even be able to get away with including the temperature control service (the little thing with the ribbons already in game) as part of the same building, via toggle option alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Just now, Crimeo said: Yes, which means that on both strokes, there's a pressure differential between the hot steam and the colder venting steam. Which, on both strokes, comes entirely from the temperature difference. If the atmosphere were equally hot as the boiler, then neither stroke would do anything, no matter how you ever designed the engine, with any combination of valves, etc. (unless you put in some other form of external energy, defeating the purpose). No it could definitely still work, We can control the atmosphere. Even if we could not control the tempature we could control many other factors that would still make it work. Temperature does not directly equate to pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimeo Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Just now, Joshu145 said: No it could definitely still work, We can control the atmosphere. Even if we could not control the tempature we could control many other factors that would still make it work. Temperature does not directly equate to pressure. If you could figure out a way to run a steam turbine in a steam-hot atmosphere, then you'd be able to violate laws of thermodynamics by running it forever with no input, since you wouldn't need any fuel to boil water in a 105 degree atmosphere. Generally I'd say the burden of proof is on the guy claiming a perpetual motion machine is possible to explain how, precisely, in more specific terms. Unless, again by "other factors" you mean "making it justnot a steam engine anymore" by utilizing some other external third party energy source like a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshu145 Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 19 hours ago, Crimeo said: If you could figure out a way to run a steam turbine in a steam-hot atmosphere, then you'd be able to violate laws of thermodynamics by running it forever with no input, since you wouldn't need any fuel to boil water in a 105 degree atmosphere. Generally I'd say the burden of proof is on the guy claiming a perpetual motion machine is possible to explain how, precisely, in more specific terms. Unless, again by "other factors" you mean "making it justnot a steam engine anymore" by utilizing some other external third party energy source like a river. I do not believe in perpetual motion at all. If we can control the density of the materials inside a chamber we can control the amount of material that can be turned into steam. Here http://littleshop.physics.colostate.edu/tenthings/WhatCausesPressure.pdf Pressure is a combination of more than just temperature. that's all i've been trying to tell you this whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRou Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 If you have a generator that works on pressure differences, why can't I make one end high pressure with morbs and the other low and use whatever gas as steam to turn the pistons/turbines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishi21 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 How about something like this ? Made this during my lunch break ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_anderson Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Mishi21 said: How about something like this ? Made this during my lunch break ^^ Holy crap i wish i could draw like this. Amazing drawing man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishi21 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Many thanks ^^ I really liked the idea so I llustrated it I have also made connection schemes if you wanna see them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_anderson Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, Mishi21 said: I have also made connection schemes if you wanna see them yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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