darkflames9 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I was thinking that this would be one of the first things included in the game, and was mildly annoyed to find out it wan't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yokhen Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 On 3/8/2017 at 7:52 AM, Amarand said: HA! Yup, these are totally space plants, with different space plant issues and attributes, I imagine. Having said that, did you know that on planet Earth, photosynthesis has only been a somewhat recent development? It's true! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event Before plants evolved to photosynthesize, the Earth was mostly CO2, which the algae converted into oxygen, killing off a lot of the CO2-loving critters, and making way for oxygen breathers! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae It's possible that we're working on reversing this recent trend, though. Industry! We will probably make way for the nuclear waste loving creatures too! The future looks bright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Crimeo said: There's no particular need or value in simulating wobbles and temporary cycles in a cartoonishly abstracted game like this. Overall mass conservation can be respected, and the game still made as simple to play and program as possible, by simply focusing on the overall NET effect of every process, building, plant, etc. in terms of inputs and outputs. A dead plant, however, represents a significant shift in game balance / a meaningful event that happened that is a result of player action, could have been prevented, etc. And also needs to be treated differently to conserve mass still. You're dancing around the issue here. It does not matter what plants as you know them do or don't as I already mentioned. It's an effect of photosynthesis, and the plants in the game do not rely on photosynthesis as light have no effect on them at all. Therefore it is erroneous to assume that they would turn CO2 into O2 at all. In fact, it would be more logical that the reverse was true as that is what plants as we know them do where there's no light present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimeo Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 On 3/21/2017 at 6:22 AM, Saturnus said: You're dancing around the issue here. It does not matter what plants as you know them do or don't as I already mentioned. It's an effect of photosynthesis, and the plants in the game do not rely on photosynthesis as light have no effect on them at all. Therefore it is erroneous to assume that they would turn CO2 into O2 at all. In fact, it would be more logical that the reverse was true as that is what plants as we know them do where there's no light present. I don't care about whether they do that particular reaction. I do care that they conserve mass. If on this alien planet, youwant to say they have some biology that is based on chlorine and sodium reacting for energy somehow or whatever, fine, but in that case, they need chlorine and sodium to live, and they'd give salt when harvested. Or blah blah whatever. Making matter out of nothing though is not valid for ANY chemistry or ANY biology possible on ANY alien planet. So some change would be needed for it to make sense, no matter what. And if one is considering a change, earth chemistry is a lot easier to balance and code, because it already exists, so you can skip the step of "making up a whole system" and thus do it more quickly. Which is why I focus on that. Also because O2 and CO2 aremore relevant to the game and would tie in better to the loops and systems than probably most alternate biologies would, for better gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 39 minutes ago, Crimeo said: I don't care about whether they do that particular reaction. I do care that they conserve mass. If on this alien planet, youwant to say they have some biology that is based on chlorine and sodium reacting for energy somehow or whatever, fine, but in that case, they need chlorine and sodium to live, and they'd give salt when harvested. Or blah blah whatever. Making matter out of nothing though is not valid for ANY chemistry or ANY biology possible on ANY alien planet. So some change would be needed for it to make sense, no matter what. And if one is considering a change, earth chemistry is a lot easier to balance and code, because it already exists, so you can skip the step of "making up a whole system" and thus do it more quickly. Which is why I focus on that. Also because O2 and CO2 aremore relevant to the game and would tie in better to the loops and systems than probably most alternate biologies would, for better gameplay. So suddenly you're concerned about conservation of mass or energy? Oh dear me, plants should be the least of your worries then. At least it's not a complete free ride. Plants do at least consume the seed and/or fertilizer in order to grow so it's not like you get something from absolutely nothing like, I don't know morb generated polluted O2 or geyser generated H2O. Or electrolyzers that are x113000 (that's one hundred and thirteen thousand times) more efficient than theoretically physically possible assuming 100% conversion efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimeo Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Quote So suddenly you're concerned about conservation of mass or energy? Oh dear me, plants should be the least of your worries then. No, not "suddenly." It was the very first thing I posted about on this whole forum, and I already gave a like 5-10 page essay on a system of how it can be fixed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne Duskwood Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 On 3/8/2017 at 11:24 PM, DimWhat said: A plant that turns O2 into CO2. On 3/8/2017 at 11:27 PM, Kael_Rus said: Why would you even want anything like that? I agree with you Kael.....WHY WOULD WE NEED THIS!!! Maybe make it in one area that is High in CO2 anyways??? But mostly this seems like a **** move and I don't want it in the immediate game. On 3/11/2017 at 3:59 PM, FearThe1337 said: Brittle blossoms(?) Should be able to do that, they are rare (I only found them on a few worlds personally) so balance wouldn't be an issue? For example mealwood doesn't really have leaves so it shouldn't be able to produce O2, but other plants should, since most of them aren't even renewable really. I hope Klei will really consider doing something like that, algae terrariums aren't fun, they are just algae and water sink... Which is not how algae works in real world We should gain some, not lose. (Maybe water consumption could be increased, but algae slowly increase? Since growing needs water, so we lose a bit more water but at least we can grow our own algae?) Or you know, in real world, plants also "sweat" (I'm sorry I don't know the term in english), and use up water to cool themselves down, so some water should form steam or humidify water, and we could have some air humidity going on with tools to extract it? I think the Humidity you mentioned would be a very cool bit to add to the game, cause that could make the dupes dehydrate and thus kill them, as well as make the temperature in some areas rise and fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick42 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just want to point this out... Plants convert H2O and CO2 into carbohydrates (branches, stems, leaves, and fruit) and oxygen gas. Next time you look at a big tree, remember that most of that was essentially distilled from the air. Plants in ONI defy conservation of matter. But then, so do dupes that vomit and piss polluted water even though they don't drink water, and produce dirt from fruit and lice that required no dirt to make (in the case of mealwood and natural blossoms). In a sealed ONI biosphere, the place would burst like some kind of dirt/piss balloon if it didn't explode first from the heat generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malocarne Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 On 3/7/2017 at 4:36 AM, angeleswings said: Is it just me or do a lot of wild plants and farmed plants die in carbon dioxide rich environments. That doesn't make sense because they "breathe" in carbon dioxide and create oxygen as a waste product. Oxygen is not something plants use to survive. They do use nitrogen though. This issue, for which ive forgotten in the 200+ hours of play, was my first gripe, my mothers first gripe and my 10 year old daughters first gripe. everyone thinks plants should do well, (at least as good) in C02 as in oxygen, and that plants should help with the C02 issues. i only forgot about this because ive been brainwashed through overplaying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedlord Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 On Wednesday, March 08, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Amarand said: HA! Yup, these are totally space plants, with different space plant issues and attributes, I imagine. Having said that, did you know that on planet Earth, photosynthesis has only been a somewhat recent development? It's true! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event Before plants evolved to photosynthesize, the Earth was mostly CO2, which the algae converted into oxygen, killing off a lot of the CO2-loving critters, and making way for oxygen breathers! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae It's possible that we're working on reversing this recent trend, though. Industry! No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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