Wigfrid is considered OP? Why..!?

[Begeesy]

55 minutes ago, FTR said:

was already explained why Battle Helm is way superior and it's not just pig skin, it's also durability. Hammering houses and relying on non-renewable resources is not the wisest either. I usually only hammer houses that possibly won't have any use in future, like the ones near spider dens.

Actually i can use the arguement that helmets arent so bad because for each 5 pigskin you need 6 gold to top it. assuming those are the only limited factors. Plus since your basically forced to fight very frequently as wigfid because low max stats, you'll end up fighting more pigs, making pigskin more accessible.

55 minutes ago, FTR said:

The very act of killing - yes. The whole process of getting kill - no.

You don't take into account time needed to get food to go mighty, time to get to the your target (Wolfgang will do that faster, yes, not twice tho.), time to collect loot, time to go back. Stuff/Time needed to recover lost sanity, because Wolfgang loses it quicker. There is a lot of variables and simplifying it like that is not wise nor fair.

As stated earlier, gang actually loses less sanity because his fights are shorter. And looting would be faster but now im getting at we need concrete evidence to prove this specific point.

•  

[AlbertDelRiver]

The link is broken. 

[Begeesy]

On December 22, 2016 at 11:36 AM, FTR said:

She restores her sanity and health by fighting, which makes her one of the easiest characters to restore health and sanity with. I don't see correlation between "fights end faster with more heath so he can > eat more health restoration food" ? Not sure what you meant here.

With max ghost arua, Try fighting 4 shadows for 15 sanity verus chugging 10 cooked green caps for 150 then you'll get it

On December 22, 2016 at 11:36 AM, FTR said:

That's literally the only character with self-healing perk AND character that takes less damage than any other.

WX with gears, any non-meat healing food AND 400hp (which can be mathematically seen as 200 hp but blocks 50% dmg over wig's 25%)

and gang at max hunger can be seen as 200hp blocking 33.3% of dmg

 

[FTR]

2 hours ago, Begeesy said:

As stated earlier, gang actually loses less sanity because his fights are shorter. And looting would be faster but now im getting at we need concrete evidence to prove this specific point.

That's actually not true. I will post the same video someone posted earlier trying to "prove" Wolfgang superiority

Having shorter fights does not compesante for Wolfgang sanity loss perk. I will make some tests myself later on, to further compare Wigfrid and Wolfgang in combat scenarios.

[Begeesy]

1 hour ago, FTR said:

That's actually not true. I will post the same video someone posted earlier trying to "prove" Wolfgang superiority

Having shorter fights does not compesante for Wolfgang sanity loss perk. I will make some tests myself later on, to further compare Wigfrid and Wolfgang in combat scenarios.

It's nice you Ignored all my other points and picked the wishy washy one. Dont tell me that the rest of your post went with steam when it was DDOS'd.

you going out there yourself won't prove much because it can't be generalized to everyone, because most of it piggybacks on your skill itself.

[FTR]

4 hours ago, Begeesy said:

With max ghost arua, Try fighting 4 shadows for 15 sanity verus chugging 10 cooked green caps for 150 then you'll get it

WX with gears, any non-meat healing food AND 400hp (which can be mathematically seen as 200 hp but blocks 50% dmg over wig's 25%)

and gang at max hunger can be seen as 200hp blocking 33.3% of dmg

When you are affected by that bad sanity aura you embrace the madness. I don't see point of restoring sanity anyhow if it's going to just drop down right away. Just enjoy, farm some nightmare fuel, you will always be properly geared for that as Wigfrid. Losing less sanity is better than being able to restore sanity easier. Besides.. Wigfrid can farm sanity just by hitting things.

I am not sure what you tried to say with your WX argument, but I think it's easy to understand why damage reduction is way better than health. Wigfrid endures more, losing less health, so any healing items or her lifesteal restores more health by percentage of her total health, compared to when you have 400 health. It's easier to understand if we use ridiculous example of like 1000 health character (a) vs 750 character (b) and 25% damage reduction.  Character a takes 500 points of damage so he is left with 500 health, character b takes 500 points of damage and he is left with 375 health. They both took same base damage and to restore lost health character a needs 25 healing salves while character b only needs 18,75 healing salves. Because of the same reason Wigfrid passive life steal would be way less impressive if she would just have 25% more health but no damage reduction.

Damage reduction does not equal health.

I didn't think it needs explaining.

 

54 minutes ago, Begeesy said:

It's nice you Ignored all my other points and picked the wishy washy one. Dont tell me that the rest of your post went with steam when it was DDOS'd.

you going out there yourself won't prove much because it can't be generalized to everyone, because most of it piggybacks on your skill itself.

When I was writing my post, your 2nd post was not here yet. Try to keep everything in one message next time.

[Begeesy]

2 hours ago, FTR said:

I am not sure what you tried to say with your WX argument, but I think it's easy to understand why damage reduction is way better than health. Wigfrid endures more, losing less health, so any healing items or her lifesteal restores more health by percentage of her total health, compared to when you have 400 health. It's easier to understand if we use ridiculous example of like 1000 health character (a) vs 750 character (b) and 25% damage reduction.  Character a takes 500 points of damage so he is left with 500 health, character b takes 500 points of damage and he is left with 375 health. They both took same base damage and to restore lost health character a needs 25 healing salves while character b only needs 18,75 healing salves. Because of the same reason Wigfrid passive life steal would be way less impressive if she would just have 25% more health but no damage reduction.

 

I am FULLY aware of this, after all if i did bring it up it would be harder to get what point I'm getting across. Its just that wigfrid values healing items more than 4/3 TIMES(4/3 is the health efficiency that she has over other players) since she can only eat meat. Its like your telling me a grindy 1 hp and sanity per hit is > 45hp (60*[1-.25]), 75 hunger, and 50 sanity per gear.

I have a feeling your counter is going to be jerky. But to only have jerky as a healing is resource extensive, 10 jerky racks = 90 grass 30 sticks 20 coals. Not to mention when your in a situation when you're full on sanity but low on hp so you have to waste sanity points due to your low max stats.

2 hours ago, FTR said:

When you are affected by that bad sanity aura you embrace the madness. I don't see point of restoring sanity anyhow if it's going to just drop down right away. Just enjoy, farm some nightmare fuel, you will always be properly geared for that as Wigfrid.

I see where your going with this one, "sanity ez". I agree with this but theres times in don't starve when you're being rushed by two terrorbeaks and they can stop you from doing something that'll keep you alive. Especially having lower stats and all that you have to take care more frequently. Examples: rain freezing you to death but crawlers is camping the fire you made (probably joined in spring so couldn't prevent it from happening), starving to death but terrorbeaks preventing you to kite anything.

2 hours ago, FTR said:

Losing less sanity is better than being able to restore sanity easier

I don't know if you ment to help my arguement in this statement but it did. Basically your saying its better to have a high sanity max, no need I to say more. wigfid lacks that. (Extreme example, every character except webber applies)As wicker, having highest max sanity need more sanity to become sane again thus being harder.

[GiddyGuy]

10 hours ago, FTR said:

Belt of hunger - been there, tried that. Unfortunately getting rid of backpack is extremly painful so this is not an option.

Well some people are either better at managing their inventory or save it for whenever they start fighting like say a log suit.

10 hours ago, FTR said:

Battle Spear is amazing, most reliable craftable weapon.

I find this funny unless you're talking about only Wigfrid, Wendy, or Wes it's just a regular spear for others, also the hambat has unlimited ( until it spoils) uses and it's a nice item to make if you're drowning in meat, if I rememeber correctly Wolfgang can three/four shot shadows with a hambat?

Also just putting my opinion out here but if you're only good at playing Wigfrid, Wigfrid is the best character in the game for you. If you're only good at playing Wolfgang, Wolfgang is the best character in the game for you.

But please do continue this lovely discussion calmly and politely, I'd love to see your rebuttals!

[FTR]

3 hours ago, Begeesy said:

I am FULLY aware of this, after all if i did bring it up it would be harder to get what point I'm getting across. Its just that wigfrid values healing items more than 4/3 TIMES(4/3 is the health efficiency that she has over other players) since she can only eat meat. Its like your telling me a grindy 1 hp and sanity per hit is > 45hp (60*[1-.25]), 75 hunger, and 50 sanity per gear.

I see where your going with this one, "sanity ez". I agree with this but theres times in don't starve when you're being rushed by two terrorbeaks and they can stop you from doing something that'll keep you alive. Especially having lower stats and all that you have to take care more frequently. Examples: rain freezing you to death but crawlers is camping the fire you made (probably joined in spring so couldn't prevent it from happening), starving to death but terrorbeaks preventing you to kite anything

I am sorry but I really did not fully understand what are you talking about here. But yes, 1 hp and sanity per hit is way better than 60 hp, 75 hunger and 50 sanity per gear. Gears are limited resource, while Wigfrid hits are free and frequent. I don't see how only-meat diet has anything to do with any of this. Why do we bring robot into this?

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I have a feeling your counter is going to be jerky. But to only have jerky as a healing is resource extensive, 10 jerky racks = 90 grass 30 sticks 20 coals. Not to mention when your in a situation when you're full on sanity but low on hp so you have to waste sanity points due to your low max stats.

Dunno, I think jerky is one of best things to have so I personally always have racks as one of first things I build. Besides that, Pierogis, Fishsticks, Healing Salves, Honey Ham, Honey Nuggets, Trail Mix, Beacon and Eggs, Tent. There is plenty of ways to heal yourself but I still don't know what it has anything to do with discussion. 

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I see where your going with this one, "sanity ez". I agree with this but theres times in don't starve when you're being rushed by two terrorbeaks and they can stop you from doing something that'll keep you alive. Especially having lower stats and all that you have to take care more frequently. Examples: rain freezing you to death but crawlers is camping the fire you made (probably joined in spring so couldn't prevent it from happening), starving to death but terrorbeaks preventing you to kite anything.

I see your point. Anyway it's already proven that Wigfrid has way less sanity issues than Wolfgang so I am not sure what are you trying to defend here. Maximum sanity doesn't matter that much but your intake and output. Hell, lower maximum sanity is better, let me explain why. Lower sanity allows you to manipulate your madness. You can easily go insane when required, and then become sane again quicker, because your insanity threshold requires less points than for characters with bigger maximum. You become insane when below 15% which is 30 for Wilson and only 18 for Wigfrid. So at 0 sanity, in order to become sane again you only need to restore that amount of points, which is less for characters with lower maximum sanity. That is fun little mechanic I observed when playing characters with less brains, and can be really useful. Of course big maximum sanity has it uses too, mainly being comfort and stay sane longer in difficult situations, but Wigfrid restores sanity with combat so no problem there, it counters her low maximum sanity while giving her more opportunities to manipulate it.

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I don't know if you ment to help my arguement in this statement but it did. Basically your saying its better to have a high sanity max, no need I to say more. wigfid lacks that. (Extreme example, every character except webber applies)As wicker, having highest max sanity need more sanity to become sane again thus being harder.

What I meant by my statement is that Wolfgang can potentially restore his sanity in easy way by consuming cactus or mushooms, but he wouldn't have to do it in the first place if he would not lose that much sanity due to his negative perk.

3 hours ago, GiddyGuy said:

Well some people are either better at managing their inventory or save it for whenever they start fighting like say a log suit.

People in this thread claimed that it's best to be mighty majority of the time, so they would have to wear belt most of the time. To me there is no physical possibility of not carrying backpack and being effective. There is too many basic resources you need to have with you and too much random loot to gather.

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I find this funny unless you're talking about only Wigfrid, Wendy, or Wes it's just a regular spear for others, also the hambat has unlimited ( until it spoils) uses and it's a nice item to make if you're drowning in meat, if I rememeber correctly Wolfgang can three/four shot shadows with a hambat?

I meant battle spear, not spear. Hambat is amazing, yes, but hambat should be only used for tougher enemies, otherwise it's waste of resources. Battle Spear you can just use whenever you feel like it, no regrets here. Especially as hambat quickly loses it's power gradually while it spoils, and it spoils rather quickly.

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Also just putting my opinion out here but if you're only good at playing Wigfrid, Wigfrid is the best character in the game for you. If you're only good at playing Wolfgang, Wolfgang is the best character in the game for you.

Of course but we are not talking about skill here but objective character strenght. I believe Wigfrid is objectively better, so if you would hypothetically match two players with exact same skill, Wigfrid player would do much more useful things.

[JohnWatson]

I am really itching to write another long essay of a post explaining why Wolfgang is one of the most useful characters, but again, I'm a little busy, so I'm just gonna list some things with little explanation.

• Food is not a problem for anybody, no matter how many players you have, if you have at least one person farming Spiders and a Birdcage. Wigfrid and Wolfgang can farm Spiders, but Wolfgang can farm them significantly faster especially if you have lots of Spider Dens. Wolfgang does eat more food, but as I keep repeating, food is extremely abundant and Wolfgang's damage and speed allows him to provide more food faster. Again, food is very abundant, you'll never go hungry if you know what you're doing.
• Wolfgang, when compared to other characters, actually saves up to 45% more sanity because killing things faster means you are exposed to the insanity aoe of monster for a shorter period of time. Even with his x1.1 sanity drain multiplier, he actually consumes almost half as much sanity restoration items. Not to mention that killing things faster in general saves more time to do other things, Wolfgang can save up to twice as much time.
• In the long run, Wolfgang will provide up to twice as much food and resources than Wigfrid because of his 62.5% more damage and 25% more speed. Not to mention, he recovers quicker and with cheaper resources, being able to eat common health and sanity restoring food.
• In the video I showed, Wolfgang only lost 14 more sanity than Wigfrid! You can just pick a Green Cap, cook it, then it's gone! And that's when Wolfgang face-tanked without the use of a Campfire, he would have lost a lot less sanity because most of the sanity loss was received while he was frozen, he might have even lost less sanity than Wigfrid. Sanity is not even a huge problem, it's incredibly easy to manage. Willow is a character that has an easier time dealing with sanity, easier than Wigfrid, but yet she is considered as one of the worst characters along with Wilson and Wes.
• Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, WX-78 is the best combination of characters. Short explanation, Wolfgang's speed and damage makes him the boss killer, spider farmer, hunter, and to some extent the damage tanker. Wolfgang's downside of faster hunger drain is nullified by his own proficiency in gathering food, Wickerbottom's excellence in farming, and WX-78's ability to eat spoiled food without downside. Wickerbottom can build backpacks on Day 1 so you can bring along more resources as you explore the map before building a base, and her books makes her the best for late-game farming, they're ridiculous. There's literally a thread right now on this same forum showing how amazingly useful her books are. Wickerbottom has essentially no downside, if you sleep or just stand next to the fire at night, you're being useless. WX-78 not only can be upgraded to become a tank, he also starts out with base stats, except for sanity which is easy to manage anyway. WX-78's most useful ability is his ridiculous speed boost during System Overload which allows him to be an efficient explorer, cutting down travel times by half. Speed boosts are so useful in this game. Long explanation, ask /r/dontstarve, I guess, they convinced me long ago.
• Tell someone like Joeshmocoolstuff that Wigfrid is the best character and they'll just think you're trolling.
• Wolfgang is not supposed to be hanging out around the base, in fact, nobody should be. You could have one person doing all the base maintenance and that's it, no need to drag Wolfgang into that. Wolfgang should be out there getting food himself.
• There's never a reason to go Wimpy. Going Wimpy is one of the silliest things you can do, not only do you deal less damage, you also run slower. That actually means it's harder to gather food and resources, it's stupid, don't do that.
• Being able to only eat meat is a huge drawback, I have explained why soooo many times yet people still seem to think that Meatballs are the only food that exists. Yes, Wigfrid is still a great character even with this drawback, even better than Wilson, but this downside alone makes her inferior to Wolfgang. In Shipwrecked, she can't even drink Coffee!
• Wigfrid's lifesteal isn't that much! The video clearly shows that her lifesteal does not outweigh the insanity field's drain and the damage from the tanking, she would always end up needing to heal and get her sanity back up. With her Battle Spear attacking most mobs, SHE ONLY GAINS 1 HEALTH AND 1 SANITY EVERY 3 HITS! How on earth does that make up for not being able to eat common healing and sanity restoring food? "Oh wow, I guess I can't eat this 15 sanity Cooked Cactus Flesh nor this 30 health Trail Mix, but hey, at least I get 1 health and sanity every 3 swings!"
• It depends on the weapon and mob though. Fisting Spiders gives 1 point per 3 hits, Dark Sword on Spiders gives 1-2 points per 1 hit, fisting Deerclops gives 1 point per 4 hits, Battle Spear on Deerclops gives 1 point per 3 hits, Dark Sword on Deerclops gives 1 point per 2 hits. Still doesn't make up for anything, it's so insignificant, you might as well just punch some Butterflies and get more health. But oh no, you can't even eat Butterfly Wings. 
• Pig Skin is ridiculously cheap. Spider Farm = Monster Meat = Werepig = Pig Skin! Yes, Gold is cheap and therefore Battle Helms too, however only Wigfrid can craft them while anybody can craft Football Helmets.
• I realized I actually made an essay of a post and spent an hour on it again. 

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Also just putting my opinion out here but if you're only good at playing Wigfrid, Wigfrid is the best character in the game for you. If you're only good at playing Wolfgang, Wolfgang the best character in the game for you.

This so much. I just believe that Wolfgang has more potential because he can eat non-meat food.

[GiddyGuy]

2 hours ago, FTR said:

I meant battle spear, not spear.

I was also talking about the battle spear but I realize now that you were saying it's the most reliable weapon for Wigfrid and Wigfrid only, my bad entirely. 

[Begeesy]

6 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

• Food is not a problem for anybody, no matter how many players you have, if you have at least one person farming Spiders and a Birdcage. Wigfrid and Wolfgang can farm Spiders, but Wolfgang can farm them significantly faster especially if you have lots of Spider Dens. Wolfgang does eat more food, but as I keep repeating, food is extremely abundant and Wolfgang's damage and speed allows him to provide more food faster. Again, food is very abundant, you'll never go hungry if you know what you're doing.
• Wolfgang, when compared to other characters, actually saves up to 45% more sanity because killing things faster means you are exposed to the insanity aoe of monster for a shorter period of time. Even with his x1.1 sanity drain multiplier, he actually consumes almost half as much sanity restoration items. Not to mention that killing things faster in general saves more time to do other things, Wolfgang can save up to twice as much time.
• In the long run, Wolfgang will provide up to twice as much food and resources than Wigfrid because of his 62.5% more damage and 25% more speed. Not to mention, he recovers quicker and with cheaper resources, being able to eat common health and sanity restoring food.
• In the video I showed, Wolfgang only lost 14 more sanity than Wigfrid! You can just pick a Green Cap, cook it, then it's gone! And that's when Wolfgang face-tanked without the use of a Campfire, he would have lost a lot less sanity because most of the sanity loss was received while he was frozen, he might have even lost less sanity than Wigfrid. Sanity is not even a huge problem, it's incredibly easy to manage. Willow is a character that has an easier time dealing with sanity, easier than Wigfrid, but yet she is considered as one of the worst characters along with Wilson and Wes.
• Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, WX-78 is the best combination of characters. Short explanation, Wolfgang's speed and damage makes him the boss killer, spider farmer, hunter, and to some extent the damage tanker. Wolfgang's downside of faster hunger drain is nullified by his own proficiency in gathering food, Wickerbottom's excellence in farming, and WX-78's ability to eat spoiled food without downside. Wickerbottom can build backpacks on Day 1 so you can bring along more resources as you explore the map before building a base, and her books makes her the best for late-game farming, they're ridiculous. There's literally a thread right now on this same forum showing how amazingly useful her books are. Wickerbottom has essentially no downside, if you sleep or just stand next to the fire at night, you're being useless. WX-78 not only can be upgraded to become a tank, he also starts out with base stats, except for sanity which is easy to manage anyway. WX-78's most useful ability is his ridiculous speed boost during System Overload which allows him to be an efficient explorer, cutting down travel times by half. Speed boosts are so useful in this game Long explanation, ask /r/dontstarve, I guess, they convinced me long ago.
• Tell someone like Joeshmocoolstuff that Wigfrid is the best character and they'll just think you're trolling.
• Wolfgang is not supposed to be hanging out around the base, in fact, nobody should be. You could have one person doing all the base maintenance and that's it, no need to drag Wolfgang into that. Wolfgang should be out there getting food himself.
• There's never a reason to go Wimpy. Going Wimpy is one of the silliest things you can do, not only do you deal less damage, you also run slower. That actually means it's harder to gather food and resources, it's stupid, don't do that.
• Being able to only eat meat is a huge drawback, I have explained why soooo many times yet people still seem to think that Meatballs are the only food that exists. Yes, Wigfrid is still a great character even with this drawback, even better than Wilson, but this downside alone makes her inferior to Wolfgang. In Shipwrecked, she can't even drink Coffee!
• Wigfrid's lifesteal isn't that much! The video clearly shows that her lifesteal does not outweigh the insanity field's drain and the damage from the tanking, she would always end up needing to heal and get her sanity back up. With her Battle Spear attacking most mobs, SHE ONLY GAINS 1 HEALTH AND 1 SANITY EVERY 3 HITS! How on earth does that make up for not being able to eat common healing and sanity restoring food? "Oh wow, I guess I can't eat this 15 sanity Cooked Cactus Flesh nor this 30 health Trail Mix, but hey, at least I get 1 health and sanity every 3 swings!"
• It depends on the weapon and mob though. Fisting Spiders gives 1 point per 3 hits, Dark Sword on Spiders gives 1-2 points per 1 hit, fisting Deerclops gives 1 point per 4 hits, Battle Spear on Deerclops gives 1 point per 3 hits, Dark Sword on Deerclops gives 1 point per 2 hits. Still doesn't make up for anything, it's so insignificant, you might as well just punch some Butterflies and get more health. But oh no, you can't even eat Butterfly Wings. 
• Pig Skin is ridiculously cheap. Spider Farm = Monster Meat = Werepig = Pig Skin! Yes, Gold is cheap and therefore Battle Helms too, however only Wigfrid can craft them while anybody can craft Football Helmets.
• I realized I actually made an essay of a post and spent an hour on it again. 

Jesus take the wheel

[Begeesy]

23 hours ago, FTR said:

I am sorry but I really did not fully understand what are you talking about here. But yes, 1 hp and sanity per hit is way better than 60 hp, 75 hunger and 50 sanity per gear. Gears are limited resource, while Wigfrid hits are free and frequent. I don't see how only-meat diet has anything to do with any of this. Why do we bring robot into this?

Dunno, I think jerky is one of best things to have so I personally always have racks as one of first things I build. Besides that, Pierogis, Fishsticks, Healing Salves, Honey Ham, Honey Nuggets, Trail Mix, Beacon and Eggs, Tent. There is plenty of ways to heal yourself but I still don't know what it has anything to do with discussion. 

I see your point. Anyway it's already proven that Wigfrid has way less sanity issues than Wolfgang so I am not sure what are you trying to defend here. Maximum sanity doesn't matter that much but your intake and output. Hell, lower maximum sanity is better, let me explain why. Lower sanity allows you to manipulate your madness. You can easily go insane when required, and then become sane again quicker, because your insanity threshold requires less points than for characters with bigger maximum. You become insane when below 15% which is 30 for Wilson and only 18 for Wigfrid. So at 0 sanity, in order to become sane again you only need to restore that amount of points, which is less for characters with lower maximum sanity. That is fun little mechanic I observed when playing characters with less brains, and can be really useful. Of course big maximum sanity has it uses too, mainly being comfort and stay sane longer in difficult situations, but Wigfrid restores sanity with combat so no problem there, it counters her low maximum sanity while giving her more opportunities to manipulate it.

What I meant by my statement is that Wolfgang can potentially restore his sanity in easy way by consuming cactus or mushooms, but he wouldn't have to do it in the first place if he would not lose that much sanity due to his negative perk.

People in this thread claimed that it's best to be mighty majority of the time, so they would have to wear belt most of the time. To me there is no physical possibility of not carrying backpack and being effective. There is too many basic resources you need to have with you and too much random loot to gather.

I meant battle spear, not spear. Hambat is amazing, yes, but hambat should be only used for tougher enemies, otherwise it's waste of resources. Battle Spear you can just use whenever you feel like it, no regrets here. Especially as hambat quickly loses it's power gradually while it spoils, and it spoils rather quickly.

Of course but we are not talking about skill here but objective character strenght. I believe Wigfrid is objectively better, so if you would hypothetically match two players with exact same skill, Wigfrid player would do much more useful things.

I'm just gonna stop because i think my communication skills is preventing us from having a decent argument and you basically block my counter-counter point because it makes unclear references to what you/I said.

 

(I got triggered because the contradiction you made below)

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Losing less sanity is better than being able to restore sanity easier

Im assuming you mean  "Losing less sanity (harder/slower) is better than being able to restore sanity easier" if not, please explain what do you mean by this. Since sanity go by percentage the larger your sanity max, the harder to move it. Thus statement is pro-high sanity stats.

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Maximum sanity doesn't matter that much but your intake and output. Hell, lower maximum sanity is better, let me explain why. Lower sanity allows you to manipulate your madness.

HERE WE GO you basically said the complete opposite of your previous statement. You must think your the only savor that can reinvent the game "its actually better to have lower stats" because i heard this from no one but you.

From experience as wigfrid i can assure you that it's better to have higher sanity stats. When I want to farm nightmare fuel i always get to half full sanity back(life stealer doesn't help ) only after 2-4 nightmare fuel. When this happen to other players on a small scale i eat raw green caps (only eating meat doesnt help ). Also from time we farm sanity objects at one time then do activities that would make you insane. Its better to chug sanity objects because after they get stale they all do 0. So if your sanity is small enough you have to consistently eat them so you dont waste sanity by trying to go over your max sanity. eventually, the rest will stale being a waste of sanity. Its basically like small hunger max problem unless your going to argue that it's better to have that small too.

(WARNING: EDGY) Im going to list you 2 very extreme examples(note that the system breaks because Im using infinity but it still applies in a way). A person with the reciprocal of infinity sanity versus infinite sanity. One with the reciprocal of infinity, insanity depends on if the person is experiencing sanity drain. No sanity progress is "saved" i.e. Hard work of managing sanity earlier that day is wasted. You could've ate 2 green caps then immediately got insane by being close by a spider. A person with infinite can always manipulate their sanity because it is unaffected by drain. Let's say the person have the ability to bend their mind like maxwell or have a nightmare amulet, insanity is literally an on-and-off switch. Therefore the closer maximum sanity gets to positive infinity(bigger the number gets) the better.

[Tree45]

Not OP but for sure the easiest character. Only eating meat is such an easy downside to overcome.

[FTR]

8 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Food is not a problem for anybody, no matter how many players you have, if you have at least one person farming Spiders and a Birdcage. Wigfrid and Wolfgang can farm Spiders, but Wolfgang can farm them significantly faster especially if you have lots of Spider Dens. Wolfgang does eat more food, but as I keep repeating, food is extremely abundant and Wolfgang's damage and speed allows him to provide more food faster. Again, food is very abundant, you'll never go hungry if you know what you're doing.

It's not about how much food do you have but how much time do you consume to earn that food, bring it camp and process it. But of course you cherry pick the good things, while not taking into account all other ADDITIONAL things you have to do in order to, finally, fill your stomach. You say Wolfgang killing speed is enough to make up for his hunger, I say it's not. You eat twice to three times as much food as other characters, but you DON'T gather food twice as fast. As I already wrote, gathering food it's whole process of walking to spider den, killing spiders, collecting loot, coming back to camp, processing food, eating it. Even if it's about same time, Wolfgang is still worse than Wigfrid because that was his only perk, Wigfrid on the other hand, can do much more. But then again, you ignored those arguments or provided convoluted explanations of how - suddently - sanity, health or craftable armor somehow doesn't matter.

 

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Wolfgang, when compared to other characters, actually saves up to 45% more sanity because killing things faster means you are exposed to the insanity aoe of monster for a shorter period of time. Even with his x1.1 sanity drain multiplier, he actually consumes almost half as much sanity restoration items. Not to mention that killing things faster in general saves more time to do other things, Wolfgang can save up to twice as much time.

You yourself, provided video that proves you wrong, do I have to add anything else? Wigfrid does not require sanity restoration items most of the time. So you don't actually have to waste time to gather mushrooms and consume them like Wolfgang.

 

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In the long run, Wolfgang will provide up to twice as much food and resources than Wigfrid because of his 62.5% more damage and 25% more speed. Not to mention, he recovers quicker and with cheaper resources, being able to eat common health and sanity restoring food.

No he won't and no he does not recover quicker. Wolfgang is either or at best just as much effective as Wigfrid when providing food, he is much worse at providing anything else. Wanna go mine? Well sucks to be you since your hunger will drain way quicker regardless and you won't bring any food back, just stone. YOU DON'T just do fighting and food providing in this game, you do large variety of things. You need to look at larger picture there and sum up total food consumption and total food provided from the course of the entire game, not just - again - cherry picked situations.

 

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In the video I showed, Wolfgang only lost 14 more sanity than Wigfrid! You can just pick a Green Cap, cook it, then it's gone! And that's when Wolfgang face-tanked without the use of a Campfire, he would have lost a lot less sanity because most of the sanity loss was received while he was frozen, he might have even lost less sanity than Wigfrid. Sanity is not even a huge problem, it's incredibly easy to manage. Willow is a character that has an easier time dealing with sanity, easier than Wigfrid, but yet she is considered as one of the worst characters along with Wilson and Wes.

And you don't have to do anything as Wigfrid because you get it back passively while fighting, I don't really see how are you trying to defend this. "he would have lost a lot less sanity because most of the sanity loss was received while he was frozen" Same applies to Wigfrid... Willow does not deal with sanity easier, having to stand still near fire doing nothing significant is terrible way to recover sanity, compared to being able to restore it by dealing damage.

 

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Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, WX-78 is the best combination of characters. Short explanation, Wolfgang's speed and damage makes him the boss killer, spider farmer, hunter, and to some extent the damage tanker. Wolfgang's downside of faster hunger drain is nullified by his own proficiency in gathering food, Wickerbottom's excellence in farming, and WX-78's ability to eat spoiled food without downside. Wickerbottom can build backpacks on Day 1 so you can bring along more resources as you explore the map before building a base, and her books makes her the best for late-game farming, they're ridiculous. There's literally a thread right now on this same forum showing how amazingly useful her books are. Wickerbottom has essentially no downside, if you sleep or just stand next to the fire at night, you're being useless. WX-78 not only can be upgraded to become a tank, he also starts out with base stats, except for sanity which is easy to manage anyway. WX-78's most useful ability is his ridiculous speed boost during System Overload which allows him to be an efficient explorer, cutting down travel times by half. Speed boosts are so useful in this game. Long explanation, ask /r/dontstarve, I guess, they convinced me long ago.

And Wigfrid-ANYONE is best combination of characters because she can equip anyone with amazing weapon and armor.. So you don't even require others to pick certain character and you will always help them by whole lot regardless. Enough said. Are we discussing character combinations or perks of other characters now or Wigfrid and Wolfgang?

 

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Tell someone like Joeshmocoolstuff that Wigfrid is the best character and they'll just think you're trolling.

She is way above Wolfgang.

 

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Wolfgang is not supposed to be hanging out around the base, in fact, nobody should be. You could have one person doing all the base maintenance and that's it, no need to drag Wolfgang into that. Wolfgang should be out there getting food himself.

 

In the perfect world, of course.

 

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There's never a reason to go Wimpy. Going Wimpy is one of the silliest things you can do, not only do you deal less damage, you also run slower. That actually means it's harder to gather food and resources, it's stupid, don't do that.

I never said you should go Wimpy when in combat or exploring. You don't read carefully.

 

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Being able to only eat meat is a huge drawback, I have explained why soooo many times yet people still seem to think that Meatballs are the only food that exists. Yes, Wigfrid is still a great character even with this drawback, even better than Wilson, but this downside alone makes her inferior to Wolfgang. In Shipwrecked, she can't even drink Coffee!

Ok, what can't she eat? Green caps she doesn't even need or Dragonfruit that has at least 5 alternatives? Also we don't talk about Shipwrecked but DST, but if you bring it up, it's great way to "nerf" overpowered character like Wigfrid, by including foods that are actually useful that are non meat foods. In DS or DST there is nothing important Wigfrid would lose by her meat only diet

 

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Wigfrid's lifesteal isn't that much! The video clearly shows that her lifesteal does not outweigh the insanity field's drain and the damage from the tanking, she would always end up needing to heal and get her sanity back up. With her Battle Spear attacking most mobs, SHE ONLY GAINS 1 HEALTH AND 1 SANITY EVERY 3 HITS! How on earth does that make up for not being able to eat common healing and sanity restoring food? "Oh wow, I guess I can't eat this 15 sanity Cooked Cactus Flesh nor this 30 health Trail Mix, but hey, at least I get 1 health and sanity every 3 swings!"

It depends on the weapon and mob though. Fisting Spiders gives 1 point per 3 hits, Dark Sword on Spiders gives 1-2 points per 1 hit, fisting Deerclops gives 1 point per 4 hits, Battle Spear on Deerclops gives 1 point per 3 hits, Dark Sword on Deerclops gives 1 point per 2 hits. Still doesn't make up for anything, it's so insignificant, you might as well just punch some Butterflies and get more health. But oh no, you can't even eat Butterfly Wings. 

Oh damn, if Wigfrid sanity gain would overcome Deerclops sanity drain, that would be new level of opness. No, her lifesteal isn't suppoused to heal her for more than bosses damage her, that's ridiculous. You use lifesteal to heal yourself when kiting weaker monsters and to further reduce incoming damage when fighting stronger monsters.

Besides, you lie. Wigfrid restores 2 health and between 2-3 sanity each hit on spider. And 1 health/1 sanity per two hits on stronger enemies. I don't know what's the mechanic behind this, but this is how it works.

It's really significant, because it quickly adds up. Just when fighting spiders you can quickly fully heal yourself and restore sanity, you don't have to waste time killing butterflies.

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Pig Skin is ridiculously cheap. Spider Farm = Monster Meat = Werepig = Pig Skin! Yes, Gold is cheap and therefore Battle Helms too, however only Wigfrid can craft them while anybody can craft Football Helmets.

You don't need to waste monster meat, time to get it and then time to go to pigs, feed them monster meat and kill them. Why would you waste so much time for that when Wigfrids offers cheaper and better helm?

 

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This so much. I just believe that Wolfgang has more potential because he can eat non-meat food.

And I believe it has little to no impact because most effective foods in the game are meals and most effective meals include meat.

 

Overall there is really nothing that would make Wolfgang match Wigfrid abilities, he is just outclassed when it comes to team usefulness.

[FTR]

Wigfrid is not op, not at all.

[JohnWatson]

18 hours ago, FTR said:

It's not about how much food do you have but how much time do you consume to earn that food, bring it camp and process it. But of course you cherry pick the good things, while not taking into account all other ADDITIONAL things you have to do in order to, finally, fill your stomach. You say Wolfgang killing speed is enough to make up for his hunger, I say it's not. You eat twice to three times as much food as other characters, but you DON'T gather food twice as fast. As I already wrote, gathering food it's whole process of walking to spider den, killing spiders, collecting loot, coming back to camp, processing food, eating it. Even if it's about same time, Wolfgang is still worse than Wigfrid because that was his only perk, Wigfrid on the other hand, can do much more. But then again, you ignored those arguments or provided convoluted explanations of how - suddently - sanity, health or craftable armor somehow doesn't matter.

Really simple, because when you know what you're doing, food becomes a non-problem. How much food someone eat stops to matter when you start. I could make 20 Bacon and Eggs a day if I really wanted to, maybe even more. Food is extremely easy to obtain, you have never addressed this.

What about craftable armor? Wolfgang actually uses armor and weapons more efficiently ending fights faster and with fewer hits means less durability spent.

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You yourself, provided video that proves you wrong, do I have to add anything else? Wigfrid does not require sanity restoration items most of the time. So you don't actually have to waste time to gather mushrooms and consume them like Wolfgang.

How does it prove me wrong? Again, this is another one of those obvious "ha! you proved yourself wrong therefore you can't do anything about it!" attempts that I see all the time in internet arguments, someone did the same thing in this same thread. My video literally shows Wolfgang beating Wigfrid's time by a significant margin while saving more health. Why are you focusing on the sanity when there's more important details to focus on like time spent and health saved, especially since sanity is very easy to manage in this game.

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No he won't and no he does not recover quicker. Wolfgang is either or at best just as much effective as Wigfrid when providing food, he is much worse at providing anything else. Wanna go mine? Well sucks to be you since your hunger will drain way quicker regardless and you won't bring any food back, just stone. YOU DON'T just do fighting and food providing in this game, you do large variety of things. You need to look at larger picture there and sum up total food consumption and total food provided from the course of the entire game, not just - again - cherry picked situations.

Food is renewable. Easily renewable. Easily obtainable in huge quantities.

Wolfgang is actually still great for doing things like mining if the travel time is long, where his 25% speed boost will show a difference. Oh, and Wolfgang can just eat the berries and butterflies he comes across.

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Willow does not deal with sanity easier, having to stand still near fire doing nothing significant is terrible way to recover sanity, compared to being able to restore it by dealing damage.

I agree with this. I don't know why I brought up Willow, wasted time spent standing still next to a fire is not worth the minuscule sanity she regenerates.

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And Wigfrid-ANYONE is best combination of characters because she can equip anyone with amazing weapon and armor.. So you don't even require others to pick certain character and you will always help them by whole lot regardless. Enough said. Are we discussing character combinations or perks of other characters now or Wigfrid and Wolfgang?

By "amazing weapon" do you mean a weapon that is easily outclassed by Tentacle Spikes or Ham Bats? By "amazing armor" do you mean a helmet that could easily be replaced by Football Hats?

Look, I can understand that Battle Helms are better than Football Hats, but that doesn't make Football Hats utterly useless. I guess it can be useless if you have an alt account to occasionally log on as Wigfrid and craft Football Helmets. 

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I never said you should go Wimpy when in combat or exploring. You don't read carefully.

Ah, I must have misunderstood. I thought you were one of those silly folks that advice others to always stay in Wimpy form unless fighting. A Wimpy Wolfgang is just a Wolfgang that eats more food for no benefits, might as well go Mighty for the increased health, damage, and speed.

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Ok, what can't she eat? Green caps she doesn't even need or Dragonfruit that has at least 5 alternatives? Also we don't talk about Shipwrecked but DST, but if you bring it up, it's great way to "nerf" overpowered character like Wigfrid, by including foods that are actually useful that are non meat foods. In DS or DST there is nothing important Wigfrid would lose by her meat only diet

Yes, there are alternatives, like Jerky. While Jerky is easily obtainable, they're less common than Trail Mix, Cooked Cactis, and Cooked Green Caps.

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Oh damn, if Wigfrid sanity gain would overcome Deerclops sanity drain, that would be new level of opness. No, her lifesteal isn't suppoused to heal her for more than bosses damage her, that's ridiculous. You use lifesteal to heal yourself when kiting weaker monsters and to further reduce incoming damage when fighting stronger monsters.

Mate, you were the one acting like her lifesteal is mega-powerful and can negate any health or sanity problems. I just showed you the numbers, and it turns out, it's almost nothing compared to just eating healing food.

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Besides, you lie. Wigfrid restores 2 health and between 2-3 sanity each hit on spider. And 1 health/1 sanity per two hits on stronger enemies. I don't know what's the mechanic behind this, but this is how it works.

It depends on the weapon and the mob. I tested it and Battle Spear gives about 1-2 points every hit on a Spider while 1 point every 3 hits on a Deerclops. Sometimes it's 1 point, sometimes it's 2 points, but never 3 points, I don't know why. I did notice that 1 Spider kill will always give 4 points though.

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It's really significant, because it quickly adds up. Just when fighting spiders you can quickly fully heal yourself and restore sanity, you don't have to waste time killing butterflies.

You get up to 4 health/sanity per Spider. Wow.

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Overall there is really nothing that would make Wolfgang match Wigfrid abilities, he is just outclassed when it comes to team usefulness.

He's not outclassed, how on earth do you outclass 2x damage multiplier and 1.25x move speed. How I see it is that Wigfrid is just Wolfgang except way slower and can't eat 90% of available food but is easier to maintain if you're a newbie player or playing with severely incompetent teammates that do nothing but stand and eat food.

I'm not saying that Wigfrid is useless, I'm just saying that Wolfgang has a higher skill ceiling and therefore higher potential. Honestly, all the problems you mentioned with Wolfgang will only be problems to incompetent players. Wolfgang's biggest downside is not his hunger management, his biggest downside is his skill requirement. Trust me, you seem to be an experienced player, I'm pretty sure you always reach the point as Wigfrid where her potential is capped and you have a ridiculous food surplus, you'll do better as Wolfgang.

17 hours ago, FTR said:

Wigfrid is not op, not at all.

I'm sorry, but this is stupid. You literally just spawned in a Deerclops on Day 1, which doesn't usually come until Day 30 without the use of console. I don't know what you're trying to point out with this.

Yes, she arguably has the best starting items, nobody is denying that. That's the main reason why Wigfrid is good if you're only going to spend less than an hour on a server, causing her to be the most played pub character.

[AlbertDelRiver]

28 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Wolfgang's biggest downside is not his hunger management, his biggest downside is his skill requirement

 

Damn, I now pronounce you Mister Fahrenheit.

[JohnWatson]

16 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

<gif>

Damn, I now pronounce you Mister Fahrenheit.

The statement was not supposed to be a directed attack on anybody, I just believe that the main difference between Wigfrid and Wolfgang is the skill involved. I guess I should have used "effort" instead of "skill".

Wigfrid has a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling. This means you can be a competent Wigfrid even if you aren't very experienced. However, as your skill exceeds her ceiling, you're not using much of your own potential.

Wolfgang has a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling. This means that you will have a lot more potential as Wolfgang. However, you're going to be an incompetent Wolfgang if you don't know what you're doing with him.

Wigfrid is an extremely common character for pubs because of three things: First, low skill ceiling, she's newbie-friendly and there's a lot of newbies. Newbies also only know how to make Meatballs because guides mislead them into thinking it's the only recipe worth using, which is fine as Wigfrid. Second, starting gear, if you plan on spending less than an hour on a pub then her downsides might be worth the head start. Most pubs don't even last to Summer, so Wigfrid is fine if you just want to casually help some pubbers survive.

This ceiling and floor thing happens to other games too. Let's take Team Fortress 2, a class-based shooter, for instance. An example of a low ceiling low floor class is the Heavy. An example of a high ceiling high floor class is the Scout. All you need to do to be a competent Heavy is to hold down your left mouse button and look in the general direction of the enemy. However, the Heavy has very low potential, all he can learn is positioning, aim, and gamesense, which every class needs anyway. An unexperienced Scout will almost always die immediately because you need a lot of skills to learn before you become competent. However, a Scout can master a lot of skills to maximize his potential, dodging, movement, surfing, scattergun aim, etc. The result of this is that Scout is always used in high-level competitive play.

[FTR]

5 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Really simple, because when you know what you're doing, food becomes a non-problem. How much food someone eat stops to matter when you start. I could make 20 Bacon and Eggs a day if I really wanted to, maybe even more. Food is extremely easy to obtain, you have never addressed this.

I adressed it many times, you just don't want to hear any of it. It doesn't matter how easy is to get something, it's about how much time you have to spend to get that. Pencil is easy to assemble, yet you have to put time into doing that. But at this point you just ignore what I am saying.

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What about craftable armor? Wolfgang actually uses armor and weapons more efficiently ending fights faster and with fewer hits means less durability spent.

The difference does not make up for all other Wigfrid abilities, included being able to craft your own cheap version of head armor... like, not at all.

And now comparison:

Wigfrid 
0/120 Sanity (0%)
128/200 Health (64%)
Battle Helm durability 0%
40 seconds

Wolfgang 
15/200 Sanity (7.5%)
187/300 Health (62%)
Battle Helm durability 31%
27 seconds

I would say those differences are not that big (or should I use word signfiicant?). Wolfgang actually lost more hitpoints and he can't heal it as easy as Wigfrid can, same with his sanity, the only saving grace he has is trick by healing in wimpy form so you restore more hitpoints by percentage.

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How does it prove me wrong? Again, this is another one of those obvious "ha! you proved yourself wrong therefore you can't do anything about it!" attempts that I see all the time in internet arguments, someone did the same thing in this same thread. My video literally shows Wolfgang beating Wigfrid's time by a significant margin while saving more health. Why are you focusing on the sanity when there's more important details to focus on like time spent and health saved, especially since sanity is very easy to manage in this game.

All videos showed Wolfgang losing way more sanity points than Wigfrid that has to fight longer. And yet, based on nothing you claim it's opposite. And then in the same message you turn it around saying sanity doesn't matter, Lol.

So you claim false fact even when evidence says you are wrong, and then you say this fact doesn't matter. I am confused.

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Food is renewable. Easily renewable. Easily obtainable in huge quantities.

I did not say it's easily or not easily renewable and you completly missing my point again.

The point was who provides more food overall, not how easy it is to provide. Wigfrid can provide food almost as easily as Wolfgang while not having to consume 2x or 3x more of it therefore she is left with more food hence she is more efficient than Wolfgang in his mighty form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficiency

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Oh, and Wolfgang can just eat the berries and butterflies he comes across.

And waste time doing that, but then again, I just repeat myself at this point.

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By "amazing weapon" do you mean a weapon that is easily outclassed by Tentacle Spikes or Ham Bats? By "amazing armor" do you mean a helmet that could easily be replaced by Football Hats?

Tentacle spike which is uncraftable and you have to perform certain task to get it (find swamp, go there, hope for drop, collect, come back). Hambat requires valuable materials and you also invest and perform certain tasks to obtain them and becomes worse than battle spear after 4 days. But yes, hambat is obviously way better weapon, I never said it's not. Still I would rather waste battle spear durability on spiders and other weak enemies than hambat. I usually carry two weapons with me, one for spiders (spear) and one for enemies that can actually hurt you (tentacle, battle spear or something better).

Helm has more durability which is very, very important and useful, that's undeniable.

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Mate, you were the one acting like her lifesteal is mega-powerful and can negate any health or sanity problems. I just showed you the numbers, and it turns out, it's almost nothing compared to just eating healing food.

Well, it kinda can. You can easily restore almost all of it just by doing typical tasks like killing spiders, rather quickly. I screwed few times but still restored all of it. Wolfgang in the same scenario would just lose sanity, lots of it.

 

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He's not outclassed, how on earth do you outclass 2x damage multiplier and 1.25x move speed. How I see it is that Wigfrid is just Wolfgang except way slower and can't eat 90% of available food but is easier to maintain if you're a newbie player or playing with severely incompetent teammates that do nothing but stand and eat food.

Can't eat 90% of available food? She can eat almost everything. You don't even notice her meat diet perk, unless you completly rely on carrots, berries and butterflies which is.. not smart. Good luck surviving winter this way. Wigfrid is definately easier for newbie players, but she is also way more powerful in hands of experienced players than Wolfgang. Incompetent teammates indeed make Wigfrid seem more useful, because for them her battle helm will even more of a lifesaver.

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I'm not saying that Wigfrid is useless, I'm just saying that Wolfgang has a higher skill ceiling and therefore higher potential. Honestly, all the problems you mentioned with Wolfgang will only be problems to incompetent players. Wolfgang's biggest downside is not his hunger management, his biggest downside is his skill requirement. Trust me, you seem to be an experienced player, I'm pretty sure you always reach the point as Wigfrid where her potential is capped and you have a ridiculous food surplus, you'll do better as Wolfgang.

I am comparing Wolfgang at his best and Wigfrid at her best. I know what both are capable of at their best, trust me.

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I'm sorry, but this is stupid. You literally just spawned in a Deerclops on Day 1, which doesn't usually come until Day 30 without the use of console. I don't know what you're trying to point out with this.

My  point was that Wigfrid can kill Deerclops as fresh spawn in under 2 minutes with nothing but campfire and 128 health left. Just replace deerclops with whatever monster or horde of monsters you want to. No other character can do that and no other character should be able to do that. How can anything prove challenging if she can solo winter boss day one AND has amazing regen capability AND useful unique craftable items? No competition.

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Yes, she arguably has the best starting items, nobody is denying that. That's the main reason why Wigfrid is good if you're only going to spend less than an hour on a server, causing her to be the most played pub character.

The main reason is that she is reliable and consistently good under any circumstances. Wolfgang is dependant on food and sanity more than any other character (just in case you write again that food is easy to obtain, my statement still applies).

3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

The statement was not supposed to be a directed attack on anybody, I just believe that the main difference between Wigfrid and Wolfgang is the skill involved. I guess I should have used "effort" instead of "skill".

Wigfrid has a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling. This means you can be a competent Wigfrid even if you aren't very experienced. However, as your skill exceeds her ceiling, you're not using much of your own potential.

Wolfgang has a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling. This means that you will have a lot more potential as Wolfgang. However, you're going to be an incompetent Wolfgang if you don't know what you're doing with him.

Wigfrid is an extremely common character for pubs because of three things: First, low skill ceiling, she's newbie-friendly and there's a lot of newbies. Newbies also only know how to make Meatballs because guides mislead them into thinking it's the only recipe worth using, which is fine as Wigfrid. Second, starting gear, if you plan on spending less than an hour on a pub then her downsides might be worth the head start. Most pubs don't even last to Summer, so Wigfrid is fine if you just want to casually help some pubbers survive.

This ceiling and floor thing happens to other games too. Let's take Team Fortress 2, a class-based shooter, for instance. An example of a low ceiling low floor class is the Heavy. An example of a high ceiling high floor class is the Scout. All you need to do to be a competent Heavy is to hold down your left mouse button and look in the general direction of the enemy. However, the Heavy has very low potential, all he can learn is positioning, aim, and gamesense, which every class needs anyway. An unexperienced Scout will almost always die immediately because you need a lot of skills to learn before you become competent. However, a Scout can master a lot of skills to maximize his potential, dodging, movement, surfing, scattergun aim, etc. The result of this is that Scout is always used in high-level competitive play.

I would say that some people focus too much on combat, forgetting that this game is so much more than that. They also tend to ignore/not realize concept of efficiency. Wolfgang requires skill, probably more than any other character, but let's not exaggerate it.

And as I said before, I compare both of them at their best and I still think Wigfrid comes out on top. Combat? Wolfgang is better. Efficiency? Wigfrid is far on top. Usefulness and teamwork? Wigfrid triumphs again. I understand the skill cap concept, I myself used that argument many times in many different games, but in dst it's not that complicated (due to combat not being very complex), you are either good at combat or not.

In the end I guess we have very different playstyles. I play carefully, try to conserve materials and be as efficient as possible while still gathering everything I can while you like to go full ham despite of resources you need to invest in order to do so (that's what I assume based on what you write). But then again, we shouldn't compare skill or playstyles, I am just pointing out where our differences in opinion potentially come from.

[AlbertDelRiver]

48 minutes ago, FTR said:

 

And as I said before, I compare both of them at their best and I still think Wigfrid comes out on top. Combat? Wolfgang is better. Efficiency? Wigfrid is far on top.

 

You basically admitted with that sentence Wolfgang is the best at combat.

Alright folks, you can all go home! 

Show is over! Don't forget your personal belongings and pleated shirts!

 

[Electroely]

Did someone finally turn on the Ice Flingomatic?

[AlbertDelRiver]

45 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Did someone finally turn on the Ice Flingomatic?

Yeah dude, summer is over. It finally is Fall, I didn't get to eat all my popcorn!

[GuyNamedChris]

@ImDaMisterL

[ImDaMisterL]

1 hour ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

Seriously though, can someone lock this thread?

I tend to try and avoid locking threads. I usually only lock threads when the discussion has gone:

A) Off-Topic and the OP is contributing (most of the time I'll just move it to off-topic though)

B) Way too toxic and the OP is being toxic as well.

Of course, there are exceptions, but from what I've seen no one is insulting anyone, just having a normal discussion.

I might've lost something, so please, if they ARE being toxic, show me so and I'll lock the thread.

 

Btw guys, merry Christmas, love you all <3