Jump to content

Wigfrid is considered OP? Why..!?


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, FTR said:

Wigfrid is still more efficient through the course of the entire game. It's not about her early game at all, it's just another bonus she has, the least important one.

I think it is important, as it's that aspect that allows you to carry those players you play with.

Late game, you will produce more food (resources) than you can properly consume, so there is no need to be efficient with it unless you want to show off your Booster Shot or Mushroom Planter collection. That's when Wolfgang has more return on investment than Wigfrid, based purely on combat stats that translates into easier survival and quicker gathering.

This totally scientific chart (+/-100 units) demonstrates that both characters are optimizing something, but in their own way:JhMxIIN.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, HamBatter said:

I think it is important, as it's that aspect that allows you to carry those players you play with.

Late game, you will produce more food (resources) than you can properly consume, so there is no need to be efficient with it unless you want to show off your Booster Shot or Mushroom Planter collection. That's when Wolfgang has more return on investment than Wigfrid, based purely on combat stats that translates into easier survival and quicker gathering.

This totally scientific chart (+/-100 units) demonstrates that both characters are optimizing something, but in their own way:JhMxIIN.png

for a chart you seem to have 6-7 extra lines and because I can't tell who is who its chart need to go in the trash along with the ms paint program you used to draw it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To put in summary:

Wigfrid requires low game knowledge to play well early game and excels early game but flattens midgame.

Wolfgang requires high game knowledge to play well early game and excels at any point in the game moreso than Wigfrid at the requirement of game knowledge.

nmBfJXp.png

The variance is to denote skill level of the player from least skillful to most, under the assumption that the entire server is functioning as a unit and has equal distribution of items.

Even the worst of players can excel well if provided the items (in a wasteful manner).

 

So as far as Wigfrid being OP, I wouldn't say that.

She's easy and new player friendly to be sure, but her very small life/sanity on hit is replaced by healing items/food and her helmets are easily replaced with other armours mid/late game.

There's still value in her, though, as the increased damage still has value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

 

4 hours ago, Donke60 said:

At least wes can't get worse

Wes is actually a very powerful character. He can fly, no other character can fly besides Wes.

 

I can't play a powerful character will I guess its time to become a willow main :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

They're both an excellent synergy of characters, but the fact FTR claims Wolfgang is useless/obsolete compared to Wigfrid quite concerns me.

How is dragon pie far from best meals? It heals 40 HP, and 75 hunger, It's an much better bacon n' eggs, also removes the need to even hunt anymore in the game, which means that Wolfgang can explore with other characters with ease.

 

It can also be mass produced if half of the dragon fruit is given to the bird and the other half of dragon fruit turned into pies.

It's not "much better" than bacon and eggs, it heals 20 more health (which Wigfrid don't need cus amazing lifesteal ability,) and spoils 25% quicker. The argument "removes need to hunt" sounds really funny after you repeatedly said it's Wolfangs main strength and job.

 

18 hours ago, Diezen said:

Dragonpies are overrated. Delicious perogies, fish sticks, and koalaphant trunk steaks are where it's at.

Yeh. Esepcially our glorious "Wolfgang hunters" should know that. I hunt koala whenever I can as any character, he is just too tasty.

 

20 hours ago, PillsStealer said:

You guys keep forgetting who's the real hero!

Wes.gif

It's outrageous you even mention him. We obviously all know he is too overpowered to even be mentioned here, he is just on different level.

 

15 hours ago, HamBatter said:

I think it is important, as it's that aspect that allows you to carry those players you play with.

Late game, you will produce more food (resources) than you can properly consume, so there is no need to be efficient with it unless you want to show off your Booster Shot or Mushroom Planter collection. That's when Wolfgang has more return on investment than Wigfrid, based purely on combat stats that translates into easier survival and quicker gathering.

This totally scientific chart (+/-100 units) demonstrates that both characters are optimizing something, but in their own way:JhMxIIN.png

See that's another mistake people make. If you produce more food than you can consume - dum dum dum dum - stop producing food and spend your time elsewhere. The chart is amazing btw.

 

13 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

To put in summary:

Wigfrid requires low game knowledge to play well early game and excels early game but flattens midgame.

Wolfgang requires high game knowledge to play well early game and excels at any point in the game moreso than Wigfrid at the requirement of game knowledge.

The variance is to denote skill level of the player from least skillful to most, under the assumption that the entire server is functioning as a unit and has equal distribution of items.

Even the worst of players can excel well if provided the items (in a wasteful manner).

 

So as far as Wigfrid being OP, I wouldn't say that.

She's easy and new player friendly to be sure, but her very small life/sanity on hit is replaced by healing items/food and her helmets are easily replaced with other armours mid/late game.

There's still value in her, though, as the increased damage still has value.

That seems to be common opinion however I disagree with that. I am pretty sure Wigfrid is more efficient even in late stages of the game. That's not that all her perks suddently stop working, even after you get access to more resources allowing you to control your stats easier. I said it multiple times but I say it again, Wolfgang strength and speed does not make up for resources he consumes, even when fighting is the only thing he does, which I don't believe is ever a case, unless you have slaves that do everything for you from gathering sticks to cooking. This is possible to test, record your own gameplay, measure time you consume for each activity then decide whether those activities are exclusive for wolfgang (gathering mushrooms to restore sanity, urgent need to kill butterflies to restore hunger/health) and measure how much time you spent doing that (wasted), measure time you spent walking to and killing objective and how much food you consumed during this process etc. Do the same for Wigfrid and calculate all of that and you will know the results. Do the same for all seasons. I would maybe even do that but it requires some serious work and I am way too lazy for that.. I may do something like that but just with math, which aint easy either because there is a lot things to take into account.

Just things Wolfgang has to do that Wigfrid doesn't makes it pretty obvious who is on top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your only argument for Wolfgang is that he takes "too many resources" or "consumes too much", however end game items that are given to Wolfgang instead of Wigfrid makes Wolfgang come out on top.

It's very funny that Wolfgang doesn't have to hunt late game, isn't it? He can now explore with friends and kill any monsters in their way.

Wigfrid may still be efficient later game, but she doesn't get stronger unfortunately, everyone around her gets stronger late game.

Late game, WX-78 can tank harder than Wigfrid, 

Late game, Wilson clutters base with Meat Effigies, which never go obsolete considering they're portable touchstones, and removes the need to drop to a low sanity to kill bunny-men in the caves.

Late game, Wickerbottom has all her over-powered books ready to be used at her disposal.

Late game, Maxwell can read all of Wickerbottom's a book while recovering sanity at a fast rate.

Late game, Willow can help kill dragonfly.

Late game, Wes has world dominance.

Late game, Wendy can explore ruins and caves with little sanity issue.

Late game, Webber provides base with unlimited silk,monster meat, glands also has his own spider army.

Late game,  Woodie has base surrounded by wooden walls or any wood structure needed.

Late game, Wigfrid can spam armour, that can be easily out-classed with thulecite crowns and thulecite armour, I guess? She can have a darksword/hambat although it literally still takes 2 hits with her 1.25x dmg multiplier to kill a fire/ice hound or a spider, even a frog still takes 2 hits if she wields a darksword, she uh retains the same skillset late game I guess? 

Late game, Wolfgang makes short work of hound waves, he can 1 hit ice/fire hounds, also mow-down any frog rain with a darksword, not to mention with the late game dragonpies, he can fully explore now, also with an insulated pack, the food will never spoil in long journeys, also he walks 25% faster than Wigfrid when mighty, making Wolfgang better at exploration than her late game.

No, it isn't obvious who comes out on top, Wigfrid comes out on top early game, but Wolfgang comes out on top late game, funnily enough WX-78 beats Wigfrid at her own tanking game at late game.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a bit late to the party but it basically boils down to this: if I'm given a choice between a one time deal which would give me a hundred dollars for a single dollar investment and a deal which would give me a thousand for a hundred upfront, the 1$ deal is clearly far more efficient but the other one gives me more money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

Your only argument for Wolfgang is that he takes "too many resources" or "consumes too much", however end game items that are given to Wolfgang instead of Wigfrid makes Wolfgang come out on top.

"are given" seems like crucial words here. Wolfgang is the one that consumes and hardly contributes. You want me to build your camp, feed you, cook for you, heal you, collect for you, organize things for you, and farm while all you do is hunt? Hunting is easy and fun for most characters, especially Wigfrid that has amazing self-sustain. Seems like terrible deal to me.

I already wrote that being efficient at the game and more useful to your teammates and more important than end game damage multiplier ability.

 

Quote

It's very funny that Wolfgang doesn't have to hunt late game, isn't it? He can now explore with friends and kill any monsters in their way.

Means he needs his 2x damage multiplier matters even less, what a waste. Any character can kill any monsters, especially Wigfrid (repeating myself), without having to worry about sanity, health, hunger or running out of armor.

 

Quote

Wigfrid may still be efficient later game, but she doesn't get stronger unfortunately, everyone around her gets stronger late game.

It is true that Wolfgang hunger is less of an issue when you have steady income of food, but there is still way more things to consider. Battle Helm, lifesteal, tankiness and no hunger penalty come into use in the end game just as much as they do in early game.

She is stronger early game than any other character late game, maybe with exception of Wickerbottom, but definately not Wolfgang. A bit more speed and damage does not make Wolfgang better character in late game.

Wigfrid pros:

- constant 1.25x damage multiplier

- constant 1.25x damage reduction

- life regeneration at combat

- sanity regeneration at combat

- battle spear

- cheap and good battle helm

- battle helm, battle spear and four meats at the start of the game

Wigfrid cons:

- Not being able to eat Carrots, Berries, Mushrooms and Dragonfruits

 

Wolfgang pros:

- Between 1.25x and 2x damage multiplier in mighty form

- Between 1x and 1.25x speed in mighty form

Wolfgang cons:

- big sanity drain at darkness and near monsters

- Between 1.5x and 3x hunger multiplier decrease speed, 1.5x in normal form and between 1.5x to 1x in wimpy

- Between 0.75x and 0.5x damage multiplier in wimpy form

- Between 0.9x and 1x speed in wimpy form

 

Just regeneration alone is potentially equal to insane amounts of sanity/health items you would have to consume as Wolfgang, and there is so much more.

 

Quote

Late game, Wilson clutters base with Meat Effigies, which never go obsolete considering they're portable touchstones, and removes the need to drop to a low sanity to kill bunny-men in the caves.

Late game, WX-78 can tank harder than Wigfrid, 

Late game, Wickerbottom has all her over-powered books ready to be used at her disposal.

Late game, Maxwell can read all of Wickerbottom's a book while recovering sanity at a fast rate.

Late game, Willow can help kill dragonfly.

Late game, Wes has world dominance.

Late game, Wendy can explore ruins and caves with little sanity issue.

Late game, Webber provides base with unlimited silk,monster meat, glands also has his own spider army.

Late game,  Woodie has base surrounded by wooden walls or any wood structure needed.

I don't want to take away anything from other character, since every character has pros and cons, but yes, Wigfrid is better than all of them (although in general usefulness and mid to late game Wickerbottom can be probably just as good). That made me think that we should decide if we compare characters solely based on their own traits, or how good they work in a team. Wigfrid is great in both cases, but most likely Wickerbottom surpasses her in larger group and once she unlock all her books.

Wilson - Agreed.

Wickerbottom - Agreed. Althrough she has noticable downsides, unlike Wigfrid.

Maxwell - He can, but as you said he needs Wickerbottom for that. His own perks.. I don't know what to think about this character, he is a bit weird.

Willow - So her perk comes into use only when fighting one monster in the game, nice.. I would say her Bernie is way more useful.

Wes -                                            Run

Wendy - She is also amazing at killing spiders.

Webber - Agreed, although spider army has limited use other than causing spider wars.

Woodie - Just great at gathering wood and has good way to restore sanity quickly. Wooden walls it's waste of resources in my opinion, way worse than stone walls.

 

Quote

Late game, Wigfrid can spam armour, that can be easily out-classed with thulecite crowns and thulecite armour, I guess? She can have a darksword/hambat although it literally still takes 2 hits with her 1.25x dmg multiplier to kill a fire/ice hound or a spider, even a frog still takes 2 hits if she wields a darksword, she uh retains the same skillset late game I guess? 

You really compare day1 armor to something you acquire in late game? Battle helm is easy to craft so you don't have to waste your time to farm pig skin, it's also better than regular helmet. Both of her craftable items are great in emergency situations and as regular, basic weapon/armor since it's better than their alchemy machine counterparts (Spear, Football Helmet).

Thulecite crown:

- is obtained in late game, unless you choose unusual path and go to find ruins first, which has it's pros and cons, mostly cons in my opinion

- requires you to farm rare and limited thulecite

- has special ability that has debatable usefulness, useful mostly for very specific situations

- does not provide any water resistance

- you need to be near ancient station to be able to craft it

- because of all things mentioned above, thulecite armor is generally unreliable

Two hits is more than enough to kill anything, especially when you kite things, which you should.

Not commenting on body armor since I will never get rid of my backpack. Never.

 

Quote

Late game, Wolfgang makes short work of hound waves, he can 1 hit ice/fire hounds, also mow-down any frog rain with a darksword, not to mention with the late game dragonpies, he can fully explore now, also with an insulated pack, the food will never spoil in long journeys, also he walks 25% faster than Wigfrid when mighty, making Wolfgang better at exploration than her late game.

In late game hounds can be easily killed by massive tooth traps. Generally hounds are not problem in both early and late game as there are multiple and better ways to deal with them.

Frogs rain should not be fought. You can use them to kill Goose and acquire massive amounts of loot without doing a single swing of your weapon. That's another fun thing about Wolfgang players, because of their damage they feel irresistible urge to directly combat everything, potentially losing armor durability, health and sanity, even when there are better solutions than face to face combat.

Insulated pack forces you to get rid of backpack, which makes Wolfgang even more inefficient than he already is. Dragonpie becomes spoiled in 7,5 days outside insulated pack and in 11,25 inside it. Bacon and Eggs spoil as fast as Dragonfruit inside insulated pack. 11,25 days is a bit different than "never".

It's not 25%, it's between 1% and 25% when at 225/300 hunger and no, that speed bonus does not make up for consumed food.

 

Quote

No, it isn't obvious who comes out on top, Wigfrid comes out on top early game, but Wolfgang comes out on top late game, funnily enough WX-78 beats Wigfrid at her own tanking game at late game.

I already explained why damage reduction is better than higher hp. Go read, page 8. Besides you should not be tanking anything but instead kite whenever it's possible. Wigfrid tankiness it's just one of her perks, least important ones.

 

5 hours ago, JohaneBrote said:

I'm a bit late to the party but it basically boils down to this: if I'm given a choice between a one time deal which would give me a hundred dollars for a single dollar investment and a deal which would give me a thousand for a hundred upfront, the 1$ deal is clearly far more efficient but the other one gives me more money.

That's exactly what I think. You can either choose Wolfgang that's only semi-efficient at certain situations, or you can choose Wigfrid and be more efficient nonstop with everything you do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FTR said:

"are given" seems like crucial words here. Wolfgang is the one that consumes and hardly contributes. You want me to build your camp, feed you, cook for you, heal you, collect for you, organize things for you, and farm while all you do is hunt? Hunting is easy and fun for most characters, especially Wigfrid that has amazing self-sustain. Seems like terrible deal to me.

I already wrote that being efficient at the game and more useful to your teammates and more important than end game damage multiplier ability.

 

Means he needs his 2x damage multiplier matters even less, what a waste. Any character can kill any monsters, especially Wigfrid (repeating myself), without having to worry about sanity, health, hunger or running out of armor.

 

It is true that Wolfgang hunger is less of an issue when you have steady income of food, but there is still way more things to consider. Battle Helm, lifesteal, tankiness and no hunger penalty come into use in the end game just as much as they do in early game.

She is stronger early game than any other character late game, maybe with exception of Wickerbottom, but definately not Wolfgang. A bit more speed and damage does not make Wolfgang better character in late game.

It would appear that there's an assumption made that Wolfgang can't contribute to base creation.

He's just the same as any other able body when not beefed up and mighty, and hence why his worth in the early game is lower because his damage and speed modifier isn't there whilst Wigfrid's ability to make cheap strong armour is and her self sustain perks actually do matter here.

 

If by mid/late game you're not showered in dragon pies and food, then I would imagine the base building plan of the group isn't the greatest; food should never be an issue at this point and would be creating much more than the party can consume in any timely manner.

Dragon pies are exponentially growing due to the multiplication effect of just one of these life fruits- 1 goes to 2, goes to 4, etc.  So life isn't an issue.

Mushroom farms make sanity super simple to maintain, and there's always the fallback of choosing to sleep in a tent.

 

At this point Wolfgang outshines what Wigfrid can provide- self sustainability as well as damage from the food shower.

Her helmet provides the same damage reduction as a log suit, which by mid/late game as Wolfgang you ditch the backpack in favour of having chest-based armours and great helmets from boss drops.

So at this point her armour generation isn't useful as having the related boss drops for their perks.

 

Ergo Wigfrid's worth drops as all of her perks are replaced by items and a camp, while Wolfgang performs better since he can maintain 100% mighty form with all of the special boss items.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

Late game, WX-78 can tank harder than Wigfrid, 

Late game, Wilson clutters base with Meat Effigies, which never go obsolete considering they're portable touchstones, and removes the need to drop to a low sanity to kill bunny-men in the caves.

Late game, Wickerbottom has all her over-powered books ready to be used at her disposal.

Late game, Maxwell can read all of Wickerbottom's a book while recovering sanity at a fast rate.

Late game, Willow can help kill dragonfly.

Late game, Wes has world dominance.

Late game, Wendy can explore ruins and caves with little sanity issue.

Late game, Webber provides base with unlimited silk,monster meat, glands also has his own spider army.

Late game,  Woodie has base surrounded by wooden walls or any wood structure needed.

I won't go through each of these unless asked, but I think you might be confused about what late game is. Or maybe inexperienced?

Am I the only one embarrassed a little by this thread? I see several people talking with such authority but providing often false and unhelpful comments (there was even a comment somewhere that gold is non-renewable - lol).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, superfast said:

I won't go through each of these unless asked, but I think you might be confused about what late game is. Or maybe inexperienced?

Am I the only one embarrassed a little by this thread? I see several people talking with such authority but providing often false and unhelpful comments (there was even a comment somewhere that gold is non-renewable - lol).

Yes, you're right, I am truly inexperienced, I'm sure that I totally wasn't already proven wrong that gold is renewable and I clearly don't have any indication whatsoever of what late game might be, even if it means surviving 1 year and almost a second year clearly means i'm giving false infomation.

I'm sure you're someone much more experienced, with much more key game knowledge than I ever will!

 

Please help us shine on this topic, tells what really "late game" means, sir wisdom!

sarcasm.PNG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

It would appear that there's an assumption made that Wolfgang can't contribute to base creation.

He's just the same as any other able body when not beefed up and mighty, and hence why his worth in the early game is lower because his damage and speed modifier isn't there whilst Wigfrid's ability to make cheap strong armour is and her self sustain perks actually do matter here.

 

If by mid/late game you're not showered in dragon pies and food, then I would imagine the base building plan of the group isn't the greatest; food should never be an issue at this point and would be creating much more than the party can consume in any timely manner.

Dragon pies are exponentially growing due to the multiplication effect of just one of these life fruits- 1 goes to 2, goes to 4, etc.  So life isn't an issue.

Mushroom farms make sanity super simple to maintain, and there's always the fallback of choosing to sleep in a tent.

 

At this point Wolfgang outshines what Wigfrid can provide- self sustainability as well as damage from the food shower.

Her helmet provides the same damage reduction as a log suit, which by mid/late game as Wolfgang you ditch the backpack in favour of having chest-based armours and great helmets from boss drops.

So at this point her armour generation isn't useful as having the related boss drops for their perks.

 

Ergo Wigfrid's worth drops as all of her perks are replaced by items and a camp, while Wolfgang performs better since he can maintain 100% mighty form with all of the special boss items.

giphy.gif

Finally someone who can help me illustrate what I'm trying to say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only characters I believe are magnificent for late-game are Wickerbottom, WX-78, and Wolfgang. Also, why do you people keep talking about Dragonpie? It's not a good food source because it requires farms that need a lot of time investment. 

And I still don't get why Wolfgang's miniscule sanity drain is being mentioned. It doesn't matter in practice, especially since Wolfgang kills monsters faster and therefore loses less sanity.

Again, Wigfrid's lifesteal is too small. 4 health and sanity per Spider killed is not huge or incredible, I still don't get why people think the lifesteal is even remotely useful.

I come back here after a few days, and FTR still thinks that food is a huge problem. Come on, mate, if you know what you're doing, you would be swimming in food by the first winter.

Also, if you learn inventory management, then you won't need to wear backpacks all the time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

The only characters I believe are magnificent for late-game are Wickerbottom, WX-78, and Wolfgang. Also, why do you people keep talking about Dragonpie? It's not a good food source because it requires farms that need a lot of time investment. 

And I still don't get why Wolfgang's miniscule sanity drain is being mentioned. It doesn't matter in practice, especially since Wolfgang kills monsters faster and therefore loses less sanity.

Again, Wigfrid's lifesteal is too small. 4 health and sanity per Spider killed is not huge or incredible, I still don't get why people think the lifesteal is even remotely useful.

I come back here after a few days, and FTR still thinks that food is a huge problem. Come on, mate, if you know what you're doing, you would be swimming in food by the first winter.

Also, if you learn inventory management, then you won't need to wear backpacks all the time

Got to agree with watson here why people don't drop there backpacks I wear seasonal clothing all the time except for spring and the only downside is I might need an extra chest clothing is really good in my opinion its really easy to make at times and makes traveling less of headache sometimes like in winter with the winter vest or the raincoat for spring but I"ve only used that on webber or mr robot the only time I don't move my backpack is if I do shipwrecked mostly because some things you need are in your path and I mostly lay the sea with nets and have a seasack on. But backpacks aren't everything

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On December 28, 2016 at 10:18 AM, FTR said:

This is the kind of bs I am talking about. You seriously compare nonstop passive heal ability while punching things with HAVING TO GO all the way to the freakin desert, gathering cactus, taking few points of damage in the process, wasting hunger, sanity and time? Cooked blue caps make you lose health, not gain any. Cactus makes you lose health but you gain it back up by eating it but you still have to lose your armor durabity. Besides she is THE only character with self heal perk, so please don't be ridiculous.

At least try to understand.

 

I lol'd when you brought up the petty armor durability lost when picking cactus because an immobile plant DEFINITELY takes away durability more than fighting mobs for sanity.

Get though your thick skull that lifesteal is trash. If you use it as primary way of healing/sanity you'll have to take a trip to kill mobs everytime on low health/sanity (barring wigfrid lower sanity max making trips shorter but more frequent, increasing total walking distance). Even though if your health/sanity is low you mostlikely have a bigger problem to fix whats causing your stats to go low, putting wigfrid in a lose-lose situation. Keep in mind all of this couldve been avoided if you ate mushrooms/cacti stored in your fridge and since they go stale in as long as 20 days in the fridge(or take bundled supplies), they basically have the opposite effect, having longer trips of mass producting healing for less frequent causing less total walking distance.

And this is assuming that the process itself of picking mushrooms/cacti gives less or equal heath/sanity than killing with lifesteal with the same given time.:p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

Yes, you're right, I am truly inexperienced, I'm sure that I totally wasn't already proven wrong that gold is renewable and I clearly don't have any indication whatsoever of what late game might be, even if it means surviving 1 year and almost a second year clearly means i'm giving false infomation.

I'm sure you're someone much more experienced, with much more key game knowledge than I ever will!

Is this a sarcastic comment? It makes me now think that I missed the sarcasm in the other comment about "late game"? And maybe some other posts also? At least it's reassuring to know that the players here don't really think these things about gold and late game etc. I was a bit worried about players saying these silly and misleading things with such confidence and authority.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, superfast said:

 I was a bit worried about players saying these silly and misleading things with such confidence and authority.

This is the only sarcastic comment i've had in this thread, would you care to elaborate what are these "silly" and "misleading" things that either i've talked about or other users in this thread have said about? 

It bothers me when someone shows up in the middle of a thread and doesn't contribute to the discussion, and instead comments on the other users way of thinking without specifically saying what's wrong with their way of thinking/or what they said was "silly" or "misleading".

I do admit that gold is renewable, anything else?whodat-wilson.png.4bb6c1699766e2e590db49

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought this thread was dead. Didn't someone say both Wigfrid and Wolfgang shouldn't be compared to each other due to them having different uses? I mean, come on, just because they have combat-related perks doesn't mean they do the same thing. Wigfrid is more resource-friendly, while Wolfgang is the character that takes in a lot and gives back a lot. Point is, they shouldn't be compared to each other.

someone pls kill this thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Electroely said:

I thought this thread was dead. Didn't someone say both Wigfrid and Wolfgang shouldn't be compared to each other due to them having different uses? I mean, come on, just because they have combat-related perks doesn't mean they do the same thing. Wigfrid is more resource-friendly, while Wolfgang is the character that takes in a lot and gives back a lot. Point is, they shouldn't be compared to each other.

someone pls kill this thread

Yep, but FTR won't acknowledge that, he keeps on comparing Wigfrid and Wolfgang

 

i tried

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Also, why do you people keep talking about Dragonpie? It's not a good food source because it requires farms that need a lot of time investment.

Dragonpies don't have to be the main food source, but they're good for being a low risk source of healing that can be placed near your crockpots. You can use them to heal in a pinch due to a quick eating animation (but it doesn't make much of a difference in most cases). I guess it comes down to risk and accessibility, but it's not like you have to sit at base watching the fruit grow (even though that is what it enables you to do).

21 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Again, Wigfrid's lifesteal is too small. 4 health and sanity per Spider killed is not huge or incredible, I still don't get why people think the lifesteal is even remotely useful.

Lifesteal reduces hp/sanity maintenance, which adds up over time. If it were any better, people would be crying OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright let's break it down.

On 30.12.2016 at 0:57 AM, CarlZalph said:

It would appear that there's an assumption made that Wolfgang can't contribute to base creation.

He's just the same as any other able body when not beefed up and mighty, and hence why his worth in the early game is lower because his damage and speed modifier isn't there whilst Wigfrid's ability to make cheap strong armour is and her self sustain perks actually do matter here.

No he is not. In his normal form he has no bonuses, and his hunger still drains at exceptionally high rate. Heck, even in his wimpy, useless form, his hunger is draining quicker. He is worth less in any stage of the game because of that very reason. Doesn't matter what action you perform, as long as it's noncombat action, like gathering resources, building or even, to some extent, travelling (since his 1%-25% speed bonus does not make up for 3x hunger drain) - he is being extremly inefficient.


People don't seem to realize that Don't Starve is all about managing resources and efficiency. Nothing matters if you are inefficient, you can even insta kill monsters but that's worth nothing if you pay huge tribute for doing so. It's always about how much you bring vs how much you consume, as any character.

 

Quote

If by mid/late game you're not showered in dragon pies and food, then I would imagine the base building plan of the group isn't the greatest; food should never be an issue at this point and would be creating much more than the party can consume in any timely manner.

Dragon pies are exponentially growing due to the multiplication effect of just one of these life fruits- 1 goes to 2, goes to 4, etc.  So life isn't an issue.

Mushroom farms make sanity super simple to maintain, and there's always the fallback of choosing to sleep in a tent.

Literally everyone in this thread agree that food is not an issue most of the time. Then why bringing it up? This argument is pointless and just shows you completly missing the point. It's about how you acquire vs how much resources you consume doing that. Getting 20 meats while consuming 7 meats is worse than getting 15 meats while consuming 2 meats. That's just stupid example but you get my point.

Dragonpie is cool, but not the best and not neccessary (far from it).

You don't need mushroom farms as Wigfrid.

 

Quote

At this point Wolfgang outshines what Wigfrid can provide- self sustainability as well as damage from the food shower.

 

So at this point her armour generation isn't useful as having the related boss drops for their perks.

 

Ergo Wigfrid's worth drops as all of her perks are replaced by items and a camp, while Wolfgang performs better since he can maintain 100% mighty form with all of the special boss items.

Wolfgang has more self sustainability than Wigfrid? That's new. Wolfgang mostly consumes, Wigfrid doesn't even need to consume healing/sanity items/food to restore her stats and does not require you to gather that much food.

Ditching backpack is the worst decision you can make, but perhaps if you are playing Wolfgang you are used to being inefficient burden anyway so I understand where such thought comes from.

Wigfrid perks come into use for entire game.

Battle Helm? Convenience, no need to farm pig skin. And it's better than Football helmet.

Battle Spear? Again Conveniece, you don't have to waste Tentacle spikes durability, or nightmare fuel for Dark Swords, or pig skin for hambat when you want to kill irrelevant weak monsters.

Lifesteal? Potentially huge amounts of sanity/health you get for free during course of the entire game so you don't need to rely on other healing items, Dragon Fruits, Mushroom farms.

Tankiness? On top of having lifesteal, you lose less hitpoints when you actually get hit by things, which in a way, makes her lifesteal better than it would be on other character.

Damage bonus? 1x hunger modifier and 1.25x damage bonus (same as Wolfgang at 225 hunger), yes please!

 

Quote

Her helmet provides the same damage reduction as a log suit, which by mid/late game as Wolfgang you ditch the backpack in favour of having chest-based armours and great helmets from boss drops.

Not sure why would you wear both anyway since head/body armor protection does not add up in dst.

 

On 30.12.2016 at 3:40 AM, JohnWatson said:

The only characters I believe are magnificent for late-game are Wickerbottom, WX-78, and Wolfgang. Also, why do you people keep talking about Dragonpie? It's not a good food source because it requires farms that need a lot of time investment. 

In my opinion only Wickerbottom needs that late game to fully shine. Wolfgang is great for bosses, but not for regular playing even in late game. WX-78 in late game is just the same as WX-78 early game, he has just higher stats and honestly, that's not that useful, it's just convenience. Dragonpie requires a lot of time to get, so you may as well Bacon and Eggs because you get monster meat anyway while doing other things. Dragonpie requires some specific-time consuming actions, while Bacon and Eggs is partially just side effect of other actions you take (like farming silk).

 

Quote

And I still don't get why Wolfgang's miniscule sanity drain is being mentioned. It doesn't matter in practice, especially since Wolfgang kills monsters faster and therefore loses less sanity.

That was already proved to be false (in comparison to Wig) multiple times in this thread, not sure why you ignoring it. 

 

Quote

Again, Wigfrid's lifesteal is too small. 4 health and sanity per Spider killed is not huge or incredible, I still don't get why people think the lifesteal is even remotely useful.

It is amazing as I proved in my short clip. You are either just unable to look at this from the bigger perspective or simply ignoring facts.

 

Quote

I come back here after a few days, and FTR still thinks that food is a huge problem. Come on, mate, if you know what you're doing, you would be swimming in food by the first winter.

I never said food is a problem. I explained it already earlier in my post, maybe this time you will understand.

Well food is a problem in winter, if you rely on wild berries, butterfiels and silly Dragonfruits to stay mighty. Wigfrid does not need any of those to keep fighting at full strength.

 

Quote

Also, if you learn inventory management, then you won't need to wear backpacks all the time

There is many reasons of why I disagree with that reddit post, but that's discussion for another time. I think the top comment sums it up nicely.

 

On 30.12.2016 at 4:05 AM, Donke60 said:

Got to agree with watson here why people don't drop there backpacks I wear seasonal clothing all the time except for spring and the only downside is I might need an extra chest clothing is really good in my opinion its really easy to make at times and makes traveling less of headache sometimes like in winter with the winter vest or the raincoat for spring but I"ve only used that on webber or mr robot the only time I don't move my backpack is if I do shipwrecked mostly because some things you need are in your path and I mostly lay the sea with nets and have a seasack on. But backpacks aren't everything

Dunno about others but I am extreme hoarder, I want gather as much as I can at any situation, and then spend hour sorting my 20 chests.. :) Instead of going to mine rocks, you can go mine rocks, kill Walrus on the way, then maybe gather some more other stuff. Basically trips are long, so it's better to do few things on one trip than having to go to camp all the time because you are full. And not full because you are not good at "managing inventory" but full because you just gathered as much useful stuff as you can.

 

On 30.12.2016 at 7:03 AM, Begeesy said:

I lol'd when you brought up the petty armor durability lost when picking cactus because an immobile plant DEFINITELY takes away durability more than fighting mobs for sanity.

Well as I showed in my video, I only lost 12% durability while healing myself from 1 to full hp/sanity, and that's only because I screwed badly 2-3 times. So yes, you do lose more durability by collecting cactus and this cannot be prevented.

Besides, you compare wrong things because you don't have to actively seek fight to heal as Wigfrid, you heal ALL the time when fighting, even when hurt a little bit you immediately restore this health, Wolfgang also fights and potentially loses health while fighting PLUS he has to go and pick up cactus, losing his armor durability.

Wigfrid fights - regens health/sanity while fighting

Wolfgang fights - loses health/sanity while fighting, has to go pick up cactus and lose additional durability.

 

Quote

Get though your thick skull that lifesteal is trash

Uh that's rude. It's not trash, it's amazing, one of the best perks in the game. ;)

 

Quote

If you use it as primary way of healing/sanity you'll have to take a trip to kill mobs everytime on low health/sanity (barring wigfrid lower sanity max making trips shorter but more frequent, increasing total walking distance).

You don't have to to "take a trip to kill mobs". As I said before, you heal all the time so you will end all fights with more health than other characters, ESPECIALLY when you kite.

 

Quote

Even though if your health/sanity is low you mostlikely have a bigger problem to fix whats causing your stats to go low, putting wigfrid in a lose-lose situation. Keep in mind all of this couldve been avoided if you ate mushrooms/cacti stored in your fridge and since they go stale in as long as 20 days in the fridge(or take bundled supplies), they basically have the opposite effect, having longer trips of mass producting healing for less frequent causing less total walking distance.

And this is assuming that the process itself of picking mushrooms/cacti gives less or equal heath/sanity than killing with lifesteal with the same given time.:p

Wigfrid rarely goes low on health/sanity, you know why? Because she always heals herself when fighting things. It's infinitely better than relying on mushrooms/cacti and other healing things.

 

21 hours ago, Electroely said:

I thought this thread was dead. Didn't someone say both Wigfrid and Wolfgang shouldn't be compared to each other due to them having different uses? I mean, come on, just because they have combat-related perks doesn't mean they do the same thing. Wigfrid is more resource-friendly, while Wolfgang is the character that takes in a lot and gives back a lot. Point is, they shouldn't be compared to each other.

18 hours ago, AlbertDelRiver said:

Yep, but FTR won't acknowledge that, he keeps on comparing Wigfrid and Wolfgang

> Starts thread asking why people think Wigfrid is better than other characters

> Compares Wigfrid to Wolfgang

> Starts comparing Wigfrid to other characters as well

> Wonders why people compare Wigfrid to other characters

You started comparing Wigfrid to Wolfgang in the very first post, and now you acccuse me for comparing those two.

That's some next level hypocrisy.

 

17 hours ago, HamBatter said:

Dragonpies don't have to be the main food source, but they're good for being a low risk source of healing that can be placed near your crockpots. You can use them to heal in a pinch due to a quick eating animation (but it doesn't make much of a difference in most cases). I guess it comes down to risk and accessibility, but it's not like you have to sit at base watching the fruit grow (even though that is what it enables you to do).

Lifesteal reduces hp/sanity maintenance, which adds up over time. If it were any better, people would be crying OP.

It's already way too good. Wigfrid's lifesteal should be removed completly, so then her meat-only diet downside would actually matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
  • Create New...