Best Starting Agents for Endless?

[AceArcana101]

So I will be starting an Endless playthrough again with the new DLC features, and now I'm wondering what should be my starting team. First of all, I've always wanted Internationale for the ranged hacking, but the scanning thing seems more like a game clarity asset to me. Also, I'll be using 99 rewinds (yea, I know), so I guess I would rewind if I do step into a room with cameras that weren't detected using her.

 

Plus, everyone else just seems so useful. Sharp is pretty cool with 5 free augment slots and 2 Armor Pen, plus with those 5 slots, I can fill up more penetration. Xu's ability to bypass all daemons and firewalls seems too good for late game, Olivia gets free power for basically just playing the game, and their little Stim 4 exploits seem nice.

 

I don't know, it seems like I'll miss Internationale's hand-holding, and I definitely want her in a rescue, at least, but what do you guys think would be a pair that would excel late game? And who should I watch out for in rescues? If I get a bad agent, I can just make them suicide and go to another rescue mission, right?

 

Side Note: Seed is so freaking useful; practically 4 power/turn. Why is it not a go-to and is overlooked in comparison to Fusion?

[Nxf7]

If you like the sound of any non-DLC archive agents you need to start with them since you can't find them in detention centres. And you're right about Seed, everyone attempting endless should consider starting with it because there's no changing your mind later on; shopcat doesn't sell Seed.

 

Anything else is your own preference and I don't think it would be right to spoil the fun of brainstorming. But personally I tend to agree with your assessment of Internationale, she provides convenience but nothing new. There's a lot she doesn't detect that you can run into if you're lazy about it if you're playing with danger zones hidden, being more aware and taking 1 step at a time into fog of war will become habit.

[RaustBD]

 

Side Note: Seed is so freaking useful; practically 4 power/turn. Why is it not a go-to and is overlooked in comparison to Fusion?

 

Because seed doesn't actually give power. If you want to use things other than programs that expend power, you're SOL, and that includes the insanely useful Archive Prism's holomesh. Also you can't use on-file Nika if you use seed, and a lot of people, myself included, love on-file Nika.

[bobthe]

I can't find the thread offhand but somewhere there is a list of the program frequency of occurence in shops that can be used to verify whether or not Seed can be bought. I am pretty sure I have seen it in shops before though.

 

Seed is very good, yes, but most of the starting programs are good in the right setup. In fact I'd argue that there is no general "best" agent or pair of agents to start Endless with. It depends a lot on your playstyle. Like combat? Nika, Sharp, and others are good choices. Stealth? Decker has a cloak to start with. International gets that fancy wifi (great for seeing drones and super-armor guards through walls, let alone other devices). For me it's more satisfying to try different combinations of characters and programs each playthrough.

 

I'll point out Central specifically though. She's basically an infinite energy generator late on endless when daemons are pretty much everywhere. I like to pair her with Faust and Brimstone early on and then usually replace one or both later on. If you play central and you find the Fool program, don't think twice, just buy it. It EMPs a device anywhere on the map in exchange for installing a daemon which will give you 5 power if you have Central. 5 power and an anywhere-EMP once a turn in exchange for a daemon? YES PLEASE. I grab Bless with this build when I can as well to ease the pain.

[JackTheReaper]

My choice for Endless mode is 'Internationale' and 'Bank'.

 

1. 'Internationale' can hack the console from far away, can detect guard, safe.

 

2. Mean while, 'Bank' can open the security lock door for some peeking spot. Or She can open the door to the valuable weapon mission.

 

3. The next 2 last member should be 'Sharp' and 'Dr.Pedler', because thay're both can carry 6 augment slots

 

Or 'Central' and 'Sharp'(or Pedler), one person could carry augment, one person generate Incognita's power whenever DEAMON install.

[JackTheReaper]

My choice for Endless mode is 'Internationale' and 'Bank'.

 

1. 'Internationale' can hack the console from far away, can detect guard, safe.

 

2. Mean while, 'Bank' can open the security lock door for some peeking spot. Or She can open the door to the valuable weapon mission.

 

3. The next 2 last member should be 'Sharp' and 'Dr.Pedler', because thay're both can carry 6 augment slots

 

Or 'Central' and 'Sharp'(or Pedler), one person could carry augment, one person generate Incognita's power whenever DEAMON install.

 

 

Almost forget, The start Programs should be:

 

1. Seed(of course, everybody love this).

 

2. Lock Pick 1.0.

 

3. You can get this while you play: Lock Pick 2.0(for sure).

 

4. Kill DEAMON with 5 PWR(i've forgot the name of that program).

 

5. Take control 1 random camera in map(i've forgot this one 's name).

 

 

 

So, the decision is your, have fun!

[bobthe]

...

5. Take control 1 random camera in map(i've forgot this one 's name).

...

 

Oracle

 

I'm a fan of Oracle. I'm using it on Endless right now with Central and I basically start with max energy due to the starting daemons that install every mission at this point so I can start every mission revealing 4 or 5 cameras.

 

While I admit Seed is a great program, I'm not a big fan personally. It's great for one program per turn. That rate is not likely to be good enough late game, especially on endless, but I haven't made it to late endless with Seed so maybe it's not too bad. At some point though you are almost assuredly going to want power generation.

[AceArcana101]

While I admit Seed is a great program, I'm not a big fan personally. It's great for one program per turn. That rate is not likely to be good enough late game, especially on endless, but I haven't made it to late endless with Seed so maybe it's not too bad. At some point though you are almost assuredly going to want power generation.

 

But what other starting programs would you nab, then? Seed gives you a program per turn or subtracts 4 PWR from one program, but, say, Fusion gives you merely 4 net PWR over 3 whole turns. If you DO drop to near zero PWR, then Seed just lets you keep doing what you want, while Fusion, Power Drip or any PWR generators only give you some power that may would be eaten up fast if you are using a high-PWR program. And chances are, you would be using many in the late game due to their efficiency. So a free program per turn sounds like a blessing when compared to the other options, but what are you suggesting?

[AceArcana101]

As a note, here are some agents that I personally don't think I'd like, so if you guys can, suggest other combos before trying to persuade me with them.

 

Agents I don't like:

 

-Decker and Archived Decker

-Archived Internationale

-Shalem 11 and Archived Shalem 11

-Banks and Archived Banks

-Archived Dr. Xu

-Archived Nika

-Monst3r

 

And that really leaves:

 

-Internationale

-Dr. Xu

-Nika

-Sharp and Archived Sharp

-Prism and Archived Prism

-Central

-DLC Agents

 

For my current dream team, I'm thinking of Arch. Sharp and Nika for combatants, Central or Olivia (Arch. Central) as the PWR-house, and Dr. Xu for hacking and bypassing daemons with his EMP ability. I don't know about Nika, though, since I've heard about the stim 4 (but I haven't found it yet and there's nothing on the Wiki). Do you guys think any of the DLC agents are good? Again, this is for late game, so I care more about the abilities than the weak starting weapons.

[Nxf7]

Alright well if you truly gain no satisfaction from brainstorming this stuff yourself then I can oblige but you have to do some parts yourself because there's so many options to consider that would shape your perception of some agents.

 

How you want to deal with daemons is important. For example if you're allergic to daemons like I am you probably won't want Central and would want Hunter, lots of EMP's, archive Prism, and a cloaking 3 on other agents. This is so you can handle Fractal2.0 with ease, archive Prism can ignore cameras and loot the most guard and camera infested place on the map.

 

I'd argue that archive Nika is the most competitive out of the list you described as "not liking". Although I'm not sure how she fairs late game with Chiten boosted guards, she suffers from having too many augments that are amazing on her but not enough augment slots. Torque Injectors is required, Predictive Brawling is nice and that would only leave 1 slot left for +1 armour pierce. The benefits if pulled off can be huge: Buster Chip 3's get double value, can be used once a turn. And everything else takes about half as long to come off cooldown.

 

Out of DLC agents, you already mentioned Olivia but Derek should also be considered due to his unique teleport. I'm using him as a mule to place server3's and then go help clear the map, then backtrack for them and teleport to the exit, but his usefulness doesn't stop there, you can be more creative than that.

 

I don't see the point in late game Draco or Rush. Rush is outclassed by Sharp due to augment slots and he doesn't need to be sprinting.

[Loscil2]

Rush is outclassed by Sharp due to augment slots and he doesn't need to be sprinting.

 

Yeah? Good luck finding Archive Sharp in Detention centers, chap.

 

Also, my response to OP:

I often combine Archive Banks and Derek for maximum console credit extraction. I give the chip (and fetch missions) to Derek and I send Banks to do the chores.

The others agents (those that you can get from Det. Centers.) are fine except Decker and Shalem. Drako isn't my kind of playstyle but getting benefits from KO'd guards it's ok.

[Nxf7]

Yeah? Good luck finding Archive Sharp in Detention centers, chap.

Excuse me? What does that have to do with anything? Even regular File-Sharp outclasses Rush because his base augment gives +2 KO, then you take a +1 melee pierce augment and then he still has 4 augment slots free. Rush gets +1 KO and +1 melee pierce and only has 3 augment slots free.

[AceArcana101]

I don't see the point in late game Draco or Rush. Rush is outclassed by Sharp due to augment slots and he doesn't need to be sprinting.

 

Yea, Rush's first impression was kind of weak. You don't want to be sprinting a lot after the early game, and the conferred "bonuses" are minimal; it's just half of Sharp's bonus combined with Archived Sharp's bonus without the augment slots, and it's conditional.

 

However, what about Draco? Since it's for the late game, the free skill upgrades won't seem to matter much, and killing guards is not preferable anyways. The KO scanning thing seems interesting, but not really practical. I haven't scanned a lot, but for one, 2 AP isn't worth it when you have to walk to the body to scan it. Chances are, there wouldn't be much you can do by moving 2 tiles away from a KO'd guy, whom he'd probably tasered himself and doesn't have an attack anymore. Now, if he could scan **** in his sight and become a ranged-lethal assassin to synergize with upgrading his skills, however...

[Spider1011]

The questions is do you want to have get started quickly or do you want to have something unique and usefull once your fully equiped.

 

For the first case nothing beats Archive Bank with her Econ Chip. Just pair her with any hacking agent. Monster starts at 3 but you'll have no disruptor. I prefer Sharp. Use Seed and/or Parasite to compensate for the low PWR gain.

 

For the later case I'd pick Derek for his teleport. I haven't gotten to try Archive Prism but her holomesh sound interesting. Sharp is one of my favorites because with the high number of augment slots you can make him the ultimate armor penetrator. For PWR Central is the best imho because of the number of daemons in late game. Xu is kind of interesting again with Stim IV. Before the DLC he was more of an early/midgame agent.

 

And yes seed is the best PWR "generator" though in the endgame Portalble Servers can give you lots of PWR as well. Just pair it with lot's of high cost programms. Oracle, Wrench 4/5, Lockpick 2.0, Hammer, Hunter, Wisp. All great programms I'm probably frogetting some.

[RaustBD]

But what other starting programs would you nab, then? Seed gives you a program per turn or subtracts 4 PWR from one program, but, say, Fusion gives you merely 4 net PWR over 3 whole turns.

 

That's... actually completely false. It gives you a net 7 power over 4 turns (the turn in which the cooldown ends also gives you power), which is basically 87.5% as good as dynamo or faust, but without the nasty side effects as long as you remember to keep activating it. It's easily the best program for generating real power without radically changing your playstyle.

[ErlKing]

Starting agents rating:

1) Draco
Seriously, he is your best "starting" agent. I managed to max all his skill during first mission by using lethal lazer fence (though its not that necessary). From start he is your superman - scouting, hacking, looting strongman that KO guards, he have access to any gear and can bring you loads of credits via Econ chip if you find one early.

Besides cheap skill upgrading his boosts from scanning guards are surprisingly useful, though unreliable:
+100$ - great early game, not so good later
+2-4 PWR - more PWR never bad
+2-4 AP - helps on exploration stage

-1 Cooldown on items, best boost.
Together its randomized mash-up of an Arc Banks' money gain, Prism PWR generation, Nika extra AP and Archive Nika cooldown decreasing.

Overall he does not have specialized role as most of other agents, but his augment makes him best starter and decent Jack-all-trades later.

If you don't care about early game and planning optimal team for 10+ day you may prefer one of unique archive agents as you can't get them later.

2) Archive Sharp or on-file Sharp.

Thats your brute, he is only guy who can keep up with armor lategame.
Archive one better at dealing with armor and don't need that many Penetration Scaners, but have 1AP less. On file have longer KO, but need more augments or lances to deal with high armor later.

If you planning to play reeaaly long endless I would suggest archive Sharp as starting one, because you don't get archive versions from detention centers.

Making non-melee Sharp is viable too, you may even drill out his default augment to free slot.

3) Archive Prism.
Her unique item is really interesting. Essentially PWR sustained Stealth Rig with no cooldown. She does not have augment slots at start, but that just mean one more mission at cyberlabs.
She is not rated higher only because of weak start, but take her if you not picking more straightforward Draco and Sharp as starting ones.

4) Archive Nika - good utility/aggressive agent, as KOing guards allow her to use devices more often. Give her Torque Injector, Stim3 and she becomes on par with on-file Nika at offense while also being able to use Stims and Booster Chips every other turn, but she may have hard time dealing with high armor later in game.

Two hints if you use her:
a) Her augment works "once per turn" and enemy turn counts separately from yours, so if you KO guard, use stim3, set Ambush and then KO another guard during enemy turn you decrease Cooldown of your items by 2.
b) You can hit downed guard even if it does not prolong KO, but augment still activates, so you can sit on guard with 2-3 Neural Disruptors and hit him each turn, effectively making cooldowns of all carried devices 2 times shorter (or even 3 times shorter with Stim3, few Thermal disrptors and Torque Injector).

4) Dr Xu.
This one been great from start, Stim 4 just makes him overpowered in dealing with firewalls. Objectively best agent lategame if you don't mind exploit-like thing with Stim4. Only reason he is not higher because you can eventually resque him at detention center.

5) Derek.
Yep, that guy with teleporter actually pretty great. There are separate threads about potential utility of teleporter, so I just say that it was really handy at my runs.
You can find him at detention center (he have his teleporter with him on resque).

6) Nika.
She lost some of her uniqueness due to Stim4, but still she is great aggressive agent. You can go two routes with her - melee or ranged. Melee specked she could be lightning fast with predictive brawling, but high armor lategame really hinder her.
Ranged specked she can be emergency measure with flurry gun / rail gun / hand cannon.
If started with she have unique 2KO 2PWR cost Volt Disruptor which is great, but not gamechanging.

7) Central.
I find her augment weird, but she is decent for lategame when you get more daemons anyway.

8) Olivia.
Not that great except it is possible to exploit her for unlimited AP / PWR with Volt Disruptor, but nothing special overall.


Shalems, Internationales, Deckers, Prism (onfile), Rush, Xu(archive) are either bad or scale badly for endless.


Best starting programs in my opinion are Seed + Golem. There are little synergy between them at start, but you can use Golem once per turn for free and when you get another hacking program (like Datablast or LockPick 2.0) you will have backup Golem which you can use as cheap hack each 3-4 turns.

Seed is best passive program, its equal 3-4 PWR per turn. I try to find any reason why its overlooked and why people think that fusion is better, but I can't find any.

As for augments I would recommend NetLink, HoloOverload, Torque Injector for device users and a lot of Penetration/Piercing Scanners on your brutes/shooters.

[bobthe]

But what other starting programs would you nab, then? Seed gives you a program per turn or subtracts 4 PWR from one program, but, say, Fusion gives you merely 4 net PWR over 3 whole turns. If you DO drop to near zero PWR, then Seed just lets you keep doing what you want, while Fusion, Power Drip or any PWR generators only give you some power that may would be eaten up fast if you are using a high-PWR program. And chances are, you would be using many in the late game due to their efficiency. So a free program per turn sounds like a blessing when compared to the other options, but what are you suggesting?

 

I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't use Seed, just pointing out it's strengths and weaknesses. I think all the starting programs (possibly excepting Power Drip) are worth taking depending on your play style.

 

Faust is great if paired with Central; otherwise, it's still ok, as it's a constant 2 power per turn

 

Fusion gives you 9 power for 5 power, or a 4 power gain, over 3 turns. (Someone else claimed it is a net gain of 7 power but I think that math is incorrect. 7 power over 3 turns would mean it's better than Faust without a daemon, which cannot be correct.)

 

Dynamo is interesting. It pairs well with Parasite. You can easily make it through the first two alarm levels early in a game with parasite. Later on you might need a laptop or you might want to level up hacking quickly to get early power boosts before Dynamo kicks in, but if you have a tendency to go into the high alarm levels anyway, Dynamo can give you a solid, steady power income.

 

Burst is one of me new favorites. Being able to get 3 extra AP has gotten be out of a lot of problem spots. It can be annoying sometimes when you don't want to lose 3 AP for a couple turns but you need the power, but overall I think it's very useful.

 

Dynamo and Faust also pair well with Prism's holo-guard disguise since it requires 2 power per turn.

[Cyberboy2000]

Fusion gives you 9 power for 5 power, or a 4 power gain, over 3 turns. (Someone else claimed it is a net gain of 7 power but I think that math is incorrect. 7 power over 3 turns would mean it's better than Faust without a daemon, which cannot be correct.)

Actually Fusion gives 7 power over 4 turns.

[bobthe]

Actually Fusion gives 7 power over 4 turns.

 

So it's been a while since I've used it, but if the cooldown is 3, won't it tick three times? Why would it tick four times?

[Cyberboy2000]

So it's been a while since I've used it, but if the cooldown is 3, won't it tick three times? Why would it tick four times?

 

Because Fusion has a four turn cooldown and not 3. It was changed in an update.

 

[bobthe]

Because Fusion has a four turn cooldown and not 3. It was changed in an update.

 

 

Oh, interesting! I don't think I even noticed. It's been a while since I've used it (and the wiki is outdated).

 

Thanks

[AceArcana101]

First of all, about the matter of programs. I think Seed is still extremely useful. Sure, it's not a real addition of PWR and can't stack up, but you really should be hacking every turn, anyways. I even think it's better than an ability that generates 3 PWR every turn, with no strings attached. When in a real pinch, which the starting PWR generating programs exist for, it allows you to write off a high-cost ability that would probably do a lot due to it being high-cost itself. It's a free discount, rather than actual free stuff, but as long as it's used efficiently, higher numbers are always better, right?

 

As for the agents, I think that Archived Sharp is a staple. One of the Olivia's should be in the group, as well, but it's hard to find which interests me more. I guess Olivia can theoretically only generate 3 PWR per turn on normal conditions, but I'm not too hot for needing daemons for Central. Then again, it might as well be called a safety measure with daemons on every firewall lategame.

 

Now with Derek, though, since his ability is tied to an item, if I ever want him, then I'd have to pick him as a starting agent, right? This might be good then, since it would then be a precaution against finding a useless Derek without any crap.

[RaustBD]

Has anybody tried playing with Faust, Brimstone and Central? That sounds like an insane game with an obscene amount of PWR and tons of danger.

[AceArcana101]

Has anybody tried playing with Faust, Brimstone and Central? That sounds like an insane game with an obscene amount of PWR and tons of danger.

From what I've heard, there's an achievement for having those two as starting programs, so it's definitely worth a try. I don't think it's that godly, though. People praise it and all, but 10% still seems like more risk than reward, especially when the other 90% are daemons - more powerfully bad than their counterparts are powerfully good. But It's 20% when combined with the base chance for reversal, I think, so it's not too bad.

[Nxf7]

Has anybody tried playing with Faust, Brimstone and Central? That sounds like an insane game with an obscene amount of PWR and tons of danger.

Both the best and worst strategy possible. Best if you keep getting the more useless daemons, worst if you keep chain-proccing 'Paradox' (no hacking allowed). But there'd be no shortage of variation between each mission if you want to go beyond 20 days.