Isosurface Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Sorry for killing people on a Player versus Player server. Thanks for providing constructive feedback to further engage the discussion in this thread.I thank you for providing me ideas to kill players on non-pvp servers. They work. If you have more ideas, please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezecib Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 As far as I know, it was only enabled if the host had enabled PvP on the server, so that couldn't be the problem. Hmm, any other ideas why it's now gone?The issue was that with a stack of non-harmful meat foods, e.g. just a stack of morsels, you could lock someone in place. Say someone's taking on a spider den, someone else could come up and force-feed them a series of morsels, preventing them from avoiding the spider hits and killing them. I'm pretty sure that's why it was removed. The devs have said on multiple occasions that PvP isn't their focus right now, so I don't think any changes they make would be specifically oriented at nerfing stuff in PvP. That being said, it should be pretty easy for them to revert this change in PvP, so sure, it would be nice to have it back. Edit: @imsomony Yeah, probably, but I think the current situation is better for coop. For PvP they just need to modify the condition that's preventing it to include a check for PvP, which would be really simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imsomony Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 @rezecib, asking you since I recognize you're far superior in code-understanding than I am at this point =) Couldn't there be a delay introduced in the force-feeding, like an X-second pause between the ability to do so with each action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imsomony Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Edit: @imsomony Yeah, probably, but I think the current situation is better for coop. For PvP they just need to modify the condition that's preventing it to include a check for PvP, which would be really simple. Agreed, that seemed the simplest to me also. Just theorizing on potential alternatives in case for some reason, the PvP check doesn't work. If you say "really simple", I'm backin' ya =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J192 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Would be a nice PvP element, even though it's pretty weird to slap a a huge chunk of grilled meat into somebody's mouth while he is repeatedly stabbing you. I still feel like PvP shouldn't be the main focus right now as current co-op is still blech because of character imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 The issue was that with a stack of non-harmful meat foods, e.g. just a stack of morsels, you could lock someone in place. Say someone's taking on a spider den, someone else could come up and force-feed them a series of morsels, preventing them from avoiding the spider hits and killing them. I'm pretty sure that's why it was removed. The devs have said on multiple occasions that PvP isn't their focus right now, so I don't think any changes they make would be specifically oriented at nerfing stuff in PvP. That being said, it should be pretty easy for them to revert this change in PvP, so sure, it would be nice to have it back. Edit: @imsomony Yeah, probably, but I think the current situation is better for coop. For PvP they just need to modify the condition that's preventing it to include a check for PvP, which would be really simple.You can escape food-lock by eating something of your own. While it's true PvP isn't their main focus right now and should continue to not remain their main focus they shouldn't be removing elements they've intentionally added that give so much more depth to the game, or at least not without a solid reason. I can confirm that you were unable to force-feed unless PvP was toggled on, which once again brings up the two big questions: Why was it removed? Will it be Back? Would be a nice PvP element, even though it's pretty weird to slap a a huge chunk of grilled meat into somebody's mouth while he is repeatedly stabbing you. I still feel like PvP shouldn't be the main focus right now as current co-op is still blech because of character imbalance.It was rad, we used it in our daily matches as a form of combat. It was essentially half of the battle, the only counter to running and healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezecib Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 @Flare2V, No, you could force-feed even when PvP was off. You just couldn't feed them things that had negative sanity or health effects. So you could still get people killed on a non-PvP server as I described before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 @Flare2V, No, you could force-feed even when PvP was off. You just couldn't feed them things that had negative sanity or health effects. So you could still get people killed on a non-PvP server as I described before.Ah, that would be it. So the simple fix would be completely disable force feeding when PvP is disabled? Friends are friends, but I wouldn't want them shoving anything in my mouth against my consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezecib Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 @Flare2V, Well, sometimes it is helpful. I've had a few games where someone said "gotta afk for a bit, feed me?". Currently the game uses this check to determine if it can feed:ACTIONS.FEEDPLAYER.fn = function(act) if act.target.sg:HasStateTag("idle") and not (act.target.sg:HasStateTag("busy") or act.target.sg:HasStateTag("attacking") or act.target.sg:HasStateTag("sleeping") or act.target:HasTag("playerghost")) and act.target.components.eater ~= nil and act.invobject.components.edible ~= nil and act.target.components.eater:CanEat(act.invobject) and (TheNet:GetPVPEnabled() or not (act.invobject:HasTag("badfood") or act.invobject:HasTag("spoiled"))) then local food = act.invobject.components.inventoryitem:RemoveFromOwner() if food ~= nil then act.target:AddChild(food) food:RemoveFromScene() food.components.inventoryitem:HibernateLivingItem() food.persists = false if food.components.edible.foodtype == FOODTYPE.MEAT then act.target.sg:GoToState("eat", food) else act.target.sg:GoToState("quickeat", food) end return true end endendAll that's needed to set it so you can still do the force-feeding from before in PvP (and not in coop) would be to change the top line to this: if (TheNet:GetPVPEnabled() or (act.target.sg:HasStateTag("idle")) andI'm pretty sure that check only runs on the server, so you can make that edit for your own server now if you want. (line 534 of scripts/actions.lua) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 @Flare2V, Well, sometimes it is helpful. I've had a few games where someone said "gotta afk for a bit, feed me?". Currently the game uses this check to determine if it can feed:ACTIONS.FEEDPLAYER.fn = function(act) if act.target.sg:HasStateTag("idle") and not (act.target.sg:HasStateTag("busy") or act.target.sg:HasStateTag("attacking") or act.target.sg:HasStateTag("sleeping") or act.target:HasTag("playerghost")) and act.target.components.eater ~= nil and act.invobject.components.edible ~= nil and act.target.components.eater:CanEat(act.invobject) and (TheNet:GetPVPEnabled() or not (act.invobject:HasTag("badfood") or act.invobject:HasTag("spoiled"))) then local food = act.invobject.components.inventoryitem:RemoveFromOwner() if food ~= nil then act.target:AddChild(food) food:RemoveFromScene() food.components.inventoryitem:HibernateLivingItem() food.persists = false if food.components.edible.foodtype == FOODTYPE.MEAT then act.target.sg:GoToState("eat", food) else act.target.sg:GoToState("quickeat", food) end return true end endendAll that's needed to set it so you can still do the force-feeding from before in PvP (and not in coop) would be to change the top line to this: if (TheNet:GetPVPEnabled() or (act.target.sg:HasStateTag("idle")) andI'm pretty sure that check only runs on the server, so you can make that edit for your own server now if you want. (line 534 of scripts/actions.lua)Awesome, will be using this, thanks! Would still be nice to see it back in-game though. Only force-feeding for standing still in non-PvP and no restrictions in PvP? Seems the best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shigad Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 all the idea of feeding was to keep someone fed when he his afk or have full inventory or anything, it was not intended to PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 all the idea of feeding was to keep someone fed when he his afk or have full inventory or anything, it was not intended to PvPWhile this is true, force-feeding was most definitely more useful and more required in PvP than outside of it.all the idea of feeding was to keep someone fed when he his afk or have full inventory or anything, it was not intended to PvPWhile this is true, force-feeding was most definitely more useful and more required in PvP than outside of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentdarkness1 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I'm glad it's gone. Besides the fact that I don't think PvP is gonna work in DS .<---behold the period The whole "murder by shoving poisonous foodstuffs down someone's windpipe" is excessive creepypastas level of morbid and makes me want to throw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrimbles Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Or, we could get a new item that slows people down, and not rely on an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajule Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Wouldn't it be better for them to instead improve other apsects of combat to work properly rather than keeping an odd mechanic that can be used for combat purposes. I mean is that how you'd handle a real fight? by throwing rotten food at the other guy hoping he swallows some of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 I'm glad it's gone. Besides the fact that I don't think PvP is gonna work in DS .<---behold the period The whole "murder by shoving poisonous foodstuffs down someone's windpipe" is excessive creepypastas level of morbid and makes me want to throw up.It did work very well. Don't Starve is not a realistic game, you don't get attacked by nightmare monsters after spending time alon in the dark and giant infernal bugs are not an issue we need to deal with in our lifetime. Whether you think of it as food or not, the purpose it served in combat was important. Or, we could get a new item that slows people down, and not rely on an exploit.How is feeding people an exploit? The game developers recognised feeding people harmful food items, how would it be unintended? Wouldn't it be better for them to instead improve other apsects of combat to work properly rather than keeping an odd mechanic that can be used for combat purposes. I mean is that how you'd handle a real fight? by throwing rotten food at the other guy hoping he swallows some of it?What aspect of combat could they implement that would improve combat more than force feeding already did?PS: I don't mean to sound rude challenging your opinions, but I feel very strongly about this issue and want to make sure it is handled in the best way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentdarkness1 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Purpose? What purpose? Except to humiliate the opponent, I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajule Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 What aspect of combat could they implement that would improve combat more than force feeding already did? Well, like it was mentioned that melee isn't effective because the lag and fact that no one stops moving makes it near impossible to hit anyone. how about they improve the netcode to handle the latency better, make attacking while moving possible. maybe implement a block ability so running from an attack isn't the only option. there's lots of things they could try that would make more sense. I'm not opposed to force feeding being in the game at all, but not in its previous form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Purpose? What purpose? Except to humiliate the opponent, I mean?The title explains it perfectly well. It's not about humiliation, it's a legitimate combat option. Well, like it was mentioned that melee isn't effective because the lag and fact that no one stops moving makes it near impossible to hit anyone. how about they improve the netcode to handle the latency better, make attacking while moving possible. maybe implement a block ability so running from an attack isn't the only option. there's lots of things they could try that would make more sense. I'm not opposed to force feeding being in the game at all, but not in its previous form.This could work, but you'd have to get ahead of your opponent because taking the time to swing lets your openent escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenabrae Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Is it mode based ? In endless mode I force feed other players all the time, its less fuss than handing thrm food when theyre starving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Is it mode based ? In endless mode I force feed other players all the time, its less fuss than handing thrm food when theyre starving.It doesn't work if the target you want to feed is moving, making it useless in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare2V Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 pls respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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