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Losing sanity when other player(s) are dead


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also there are not enough ways to get sanity BACK at low levels, so this mechanic is very dangerous

 

I wouldn't say it is that dangerous unless you need to make a torch while being chased. Sanity has always kind of been a pain because I lose it in annoying cases. Frozen hounds still dropping my sanity? Walking over a tentacle I didn't see is making my sanity go down? Why is dusk such a pain too? I always turn the music off when I get closer to being insane, because the sound gets so annoying. Watching all the color get sucked out of the world is no fun too.

 

Only dangerous thing is terrorbeaks. Never fight a terrorbeak if you have lag.

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also how is this supposed to be that players who just joined will start to see shadow creatures too fast unrelated to how good they are in the game and their willing to help the ghosts?

 

Endless mode doesn't have additional sanity problems. But I wouldn't object to sanity problems being scaled similar to hounds (chance/# based on player day, not server day, I think?).

 

I kinda see the ghosts as fluctuating difficulty levels. Each ghost is another raised difficulty. Each newbie player makes the game harder. This makes sense to me - people who don't know what they're doing makes thing harder on everyone else.

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what if you just joined at day 23 (always happens to me)?

That should be anticipated by players who were already on the server, leaving some jerky at camp or any other item allowing to nullify the drain. 

The game is mainly about "being prepared" for anything ^^

If you, the new comer, die from sanity drain. So other players who were here before should have been killed by insanity too. :)

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If you, the new comer, die from sanity drain. So other players who were here before should have been killed by insanity too. :-)

they were killed, i just managed to join a second before server started to reset (not happend to me, in theory)

I kinda see the ghosts as fluctuating difficulty levels. Each ghost is another raised difficulty. Each newbie player makes the game harder. This makes sense to me - people who don't know what they're doing makes thing harder on everyone else.

but does it mean that game need to help them make it harder?

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but does it mean that game need to help them make it harder?

Yes. In Endless, I have no motivation to help newbies. If a newbie dies, it doesn't affect me. In Survival, you either help each other, or you play in hard mode.

 

If you don't like the sanity penalty, what do you suggest instead?

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Survival mode makes the game harder, but why make most dedicated servers harder if they are full of newbies? Forcing everyone new to the game to play the hard mode, the result is dedicated servers getting reset every single hour, and becoming unplayable. 

 

1/3 of dedicated (klei-hosted, public) servers should be endless (tag: Easy). 1/3 can be survival (tag: Hard). 1/3 should be semi-endless or something in between. Or you'll keep seeing newbies and experienced players alike getting massacred by shadow monsters.

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okay, that's (surprisingly) one of the few new things in DST that really annoyed me for many reasons. First off, players who die hardly get a penaulty themselves, and just screw up other people. This is both bad because when people die they can just go to other players(and hope to not get kicked) who will be desperate to revive them, and because it makes griefing way too easy, as they can be an infinite problem even when dead.

Secondly, PvP servers have no option to which mode to use, as endless makes it so that killing and raiding people is almost pointless, as they can get back to life right away, and Survival makes it so that killing your enemies is detrimental to everybody involved or not, which kinda defeats the point of PvP.

and Finally, the entire "if you don't like it, play it on Endless" thinking(that's just as meaningful as saying if I don't like caves or Krampus I should steer of from them). That just doesn't make sense. Endless mode is just as hard as Minecraft. there's nothing to fear when you can live for ever. Survival is supposed to be the default mode because it should make you afraid of dying(although it mostly makes you feel guilty when you do so.). But now, I can't play survival because, most of the time, some newbie will die to a spider on his second day and screw everybody over. So my only alternative is to play on private servers for that reason.

Maybe, instead of having everybody freak out and lose sanity, there could be a less global penaulty for dying, or at least a less guilt based penaulty for the dead.
(when I find more things that annoy me Old Bell style, I'll probably make a thread in which I describe better the problems with them.)

Edit: I wasn't aware of the existence of Wilderness mode. It's good enough for PvP for the time being.

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I guess losing sanity is only bad on pvp server, when killing a player you need to focus on rescuing him, and even of killing terrorbeaks of getting sanity will eventually lead to asylum center... although in that case the game often last no more then 10 days and what makes fun. So instead of removing sanity drain, i would love to make pvp servers of getting sanity after killing one enemy. For example, killing player who survived for 10 days multiply by constant of 5, and you will get 50 sanity, killing first day survivor will only give you 5 sanity. What do you think? I think its time to update servers and for competiting players :)

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I guess losing sanity is only bad on pvp server, when killing a player you need to focus on rescuing him, and even of killing terrorbeaks of getting sanity will eventually lead to asylum center... although in that case the game often last no more then 10 days and what makes fun. So instead of removing sanity drain, i would love to make pvp servers of getting sanity after killing one enemy. For example, killing player who survived for 10 days multiply by constant of 5, and you will get 50 sanity, killing first day survivor will only give you 5 sanity. What do you think? I think its time to update servers and for competiting players :-)

nah, I don't like when a game goes out of it's way to encourage players killing other players. The main point of DST is survival, and getting a bonus for killing that which might have helped you survive doesn't seems to make sense(and being more sane after killing people doesn't make sense either.).

I kinda like where PvP is, besides the entire "survival mode" thing, as it is neither encouraged nor discouraged, and killing people is not so easy. Many times I've thought "do I need to kill this guy? I could make peace with him. Mayhaps even offer him a shelter. Or maybe I can just hide"(that until survival mode ruined it). I just think people shouldn't be so massively penalized if they, for example, kill a guy to ensure their own survival.

And losing sanity is also terrible on non-pvp servers where not everyone is playing as a single group. Many times I was playing with some people, while some other guys joined and played by themselves(who would have thought? I wasn't the exiled one this time.), and then one of the guys died, and everybody on the server started yelling at him and telling him to leave. It was pretty horrible, yet, if he stayed, everybody would be penalized for something that wasn't under their control. This is just a not fun kind of getting screwed(the Ewecus being a the fun kind) for not playing along with everybody.

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I've heard that something like this was used for the original idea of ghosts, but why not make it so they have to haunt in order to stay completely "alive," but then make it so the amount they have to haunt increases everyday they stay dead. Once they reach this amount, they become satisfied, and are unable to haunt until it regens at night time. Instead of global sanity decrease, a sanity drain aura against haunted objects seems to make much more sense. This way instead of ghosts being global nuisances, they will be more of a poltergeist haunting some poor chaps specific home until they revive him. There is still a sense of urgency in reviving ghosts, as if you wait too long to revive them not only will they make you insane, but they will be gone forever. Trolling would be mostly stopped, as people dying and staying dead to troll would be limited in how much they could haunt at first, then just die after a while. One other mechanic which may make this idea complete but be hard to code is to make it so that if a ghost haunts an object without another live player on-screen then their "haunting meter" wont go up, so the sanity threat is still there even at reduced range.

 

Sorry if this is a little confusing in presentation but it basically boils down to this:

1: Person dies, become ghost

2: Ghost must haunt specific number of times per day to keep playing on server

3: Once they reach this goal then they are not allowed to haunt (for the rest of that day)

4: Number of times needed to haunt increases every day dead.

5: Haunting an object would give it the sanity degen aura, instead of the ghost

6: Sanity degen aura would have a smaller radius, about a screens width instead of global

7: Haunting must be done with another person in radius to fulfill a haunt for that days quota

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Snackyou, i like idea of radius, so it won't affect all players, however at first sight it seems like everyone will try not to revive ghost but get away from it. Although it can be quite perapective. Ralph, well avoiding pvp in pvp server is not sense either. I like the charming aspect that all players have little trust of other and tries not to be very near and survive by own or co-op. Also it is pitty, that always one survivor tries to build long standing base and if someone tries to take it, he definetely will cry or leave server cause of ,,troll'' or no cooperative of players who destroyed his base. Well deal with it, server called pvp and killing the longest survivor is extremely fun, cause he need to prove, that he can survive. And last, why gettong sanity is bad idea? Enemy dies, sanity goes up. This game DST is based by fights, starting from monsters and later against players. As long as game will offer fights for gamers who is not thinking about all day building base but how to achieve fast tactic to take other base or kill someone - it will succeed.

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Snackyou, i like idea of radius, so it won't affect all players, however at first sight it seems like everyone will try not to revive ghost but get away from it.

 

Thats a mechanic that i thought would make haunting more fun and interesting, as you are actually "haunting" a specific person. If you dont find any luck with one person, you can always move on to the next, and I think my way is an improvement overall to the base system, even though it has its own flaws.

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Endless mode is just as hard as Minecraft. there's nothing to fear when you can live for ever.

 

I guess you're ok losing all your items then? Even assuming it's not PvP, some random people can walk by and pick up your items. Though I do think the infinite-revive ability of the Endless portal is silly, and hopefully just a part of the beta testing. I also hope ghosts will die permanently and force the player back to character creation screen. The ability to live forever (as a ghost) is strange considering perma-death is the greatest fear in single player.

 

 

This way instead of ghosts being global nuisances, they will be more of a poltergeist haunting some poor chaps specific home until they revive him. There is still a sense of urgency in reviving ghosts, as if you wait too long to revive them not only will they make you insane, but they will be gone forever. Trolling would be mostly stopped, as people dying and staying dead to troll would be limited in how much they could haunt at first, then just die after a while.

 

A localized sanity would make me want to stay away from ghosts, not help them. Or at least an exasperated, "No, I don't have a heart, go haunt someone else." I'd consider a ghost purposely haunting my camp a nuisance and a troll. Purposely causing my sanity to go down is no different than a griefer dying and purposely not reviving. Localized sanity drain reduces the damage to the server, but also reduces the motivation for the server to work together.

 

I think a main problem is that people are looking at this backwards. Most people start helping each other after someone dies, or go hunting spiders from day 1 so they can res dead people. The current mechanic doesn't seem to encourage people to help each other stay alive in the first place. Maybe that'll change over time...

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A localized sanity would make me want to stay away from ghosts, not help them. Or at least an exasperated, "No, I don't have a heart, go haunt someone else." I'd consider a ghost purposely haunting my camp a nuisance and a troll. Purposely causing my sanity to go down is no different than a griefer dying and purposely not reviving. Localized sanity drain reduces the damage to the server, but also reduces the motivation for the server to work together.

 

Like I said, this idea wasn't exactly perfect, but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Right now as it is, griefers/trolls have the ability to troll the ENTIRE server, and with my idea the sanity drain would be limited per day, and after a little while of not reviving him he would simply die out completely. If someone sees that you won't revive them then they are forced to move to someone else, lest they be banned from the server. This way attaining a good rep would be needed on servers unless, like you mentioned, they would be simply left to die by being told to haunt other people. 

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Like I said, this idea wasn't exactly perfect, but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Right now as it is, griefers/trolls have the ability to troll the ENTIRE server, and with my idea the sanity drain would be limited per day, and after a little while of not reviving him he would simply die out completely. If someone sees that you won't revive them then they are forced to move to someone else, lest they be banned from the server. This way attaining a good rep would be needed on servers unless, like you mentioned, they would be simply left to die by being told to haunt other people. 

 

A votekick system is in the works and would be a better solution to trolls. I think something needs to affect the entire server - not necessarily the current system, but something.

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A votekick system is in the works and would be a better solution to trolls. I think something needs to affect the entire server - not necessarily the current system, but something.

 

Entirely agree with you on this, hope Klei gets the message

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A possible solution to the ghost sanity issue is to have a way to group up with people. If you group up with people you get a +1 sanity/min boost when near someone in your group. You can control who is in your group and who isn't and if someone in your group decides to betray you (PVP) and starts attacking you(3 attacks within one minute in case of accidents) they get a larger sanity hit(When they kill someone) and get autokicked from your group.

Having a group is a nice sanity buff when you guys work together but if someone in your group dies they get locked in your group until you revive then and you have the minus 5/sanity/min/Ghost in you group. This help with team play by making people want to group together and makes ghosts only hurt his team. Anyone on the server can revive the person of course but his team really wants to get rid of their sanity debuff. The sanity debuff would stay with you until that person is revived even if you left the group(No deserters in this group).

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Secondly, PvP servers have no option to which mode to use, as endless makes it so that killing and raiding people is almost pointless, as they can get back to life right away, and Survival makes it so that killing your enemies is detrimental to everybody involved or not, which kinda defeats the point of PvP.

a new PvP mode needed confirmed

Secondly, PvP servers have no option to which mode to use, as endless makes it so that killing and raiding people is almost pointless, as they can get back to life right away, and Survival makes it so that killing your enemies is detrimental to everybody involved or not, which kinda defeats the point of PvP.

a new PvP mode needed confirmed

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But it does seem like there should be more ways you could deal with it-- something that would summon a ghost to you would be extremely handy, for example, since the idea is not to punish you because you can't find your dead friend, but rather to punish you because they are staying dead.

 

Love this idea of some sort of craftable item that would summon a ghost, making finding and resurrecting a dead player a lot less of a ball ache. I generally play on a private server with a couple friends so rather than kicking the dead player in question there is always a rush to res them as soon as, both for sanity reasons and to get that extra pair of hands to help out hunting/farming etc etc. I reckon if this craftable item was say an alchemy engine item, so you at least have to work towards it and can't get it straight away, so you would have to be careful not to die early, especially if you are having trouble finding gold.

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