Losing sanity when other player(s) are dead

[Spuddywuddy]

This is a bad idea IMO. Now you get player (including me) asking the dead player to leave the server so we don't go insane. And admins kicking dead players for the same reason. The sanity loss is too high. It also makes griefing very easy. In no time the whole server is dead. Bah!

[Zendy]

Griefing is a thing that will happen because humans, but in terms of the asking people to leave and kicking them, aren't those just examples of people with an inability to cope? If a player dies, try and help em get revived asap. If you can't insanity.

 

The problem here is the folks making a stink over the death instead of getting the person some gosh dang help! 

 

I believe the whole point is to encourage working together, Now I can understand if there's currently no means of helping a player on the map, considering how long you've been playing with a person even the dead one would know that, but then you're supposed to be like a team anyway, wouldn't you rather just save that teammate if you can???

 

I think what I'm trying to say here, is that this seems to be a player created issue. Sounds like some people would rather take easy ways out of a new in game obstacle rather than finding a way to overcome said obstacle. Solution, don't play with the cry babies, play with thinkers. If you were unfortunate enough to land in such a nursery and get kicked or asked to leave, take leave and don't look back. 

 

[rezecib]

Well, I think another part of the problem is that one in-game solution to the sanity drain is to make the ghost player leave. If that wasn't a valid way out, then the only course of action would be to help the ghost. Perhaps if when a ghost player leaves, a special grave is left where they were, and it continues to drain sanity until you give a resurrection item to the grave? (and if you do, they resurrect when they return)

[Midnight Tea]

Why is this even a thing? If you're not supposed to leave a player dead under any circumstances, then why even make it possible to attack each other in the first place? Not to mention that free for all gameplay is a staple in some multiplayer survival games.

[Zendy]

Well, I think another part of the problem is that one in-game solution to the sanity drain is to make the ghost player leave. If that wasn't a valid way out, then the only course of action would be to help the ghost. Perhaps if when a ghost player leaves, a special grave is left where they were, and it continues to drain sanity until you give a resurrection item to the grave? (and if you do, they resurrect when they return)

 

I like that idea. You can pick a flower or two and "pay respect" for the loss and the player can start over and pick a new character if they ever return or something.

Why is this even a thing? If you're not supposed to leave a player dead under any circumstances, then why even make it possible to attack each other in the first place? Not to mention that free for all gameplay is a staple in some multiplayer survival games.

If I'm not mistaken Midnight I think the penalty only applies to survival not PVP where the hurting of other people takes place. I could be wrong. I'm still learning things here. I just cannot see survival as an anti teamwork mode...it defeats the whole purpose to me.

[NeoDeusMachina]

This only happens on survival servers, not on endless servers. Survival is meant to be more ''DS'' like, i.e. unforgiving survival experience. I think it's fine like this for now (maybe some balance could be done, I don't know the exact numbers). The impact it has on the game is ''omg someone revive that ghost asap it's driving us crazy''. At least, that's what happens when I play on survival servers. I also think this option is best suited for closed servers when you play with people you know and when you are confident they won't be dying on purpose.

 

Otherwise, there is always the endless option, in which there won't be that sanity drain when someone dies. Perhaps there could be an option in the world settings to remove, lower, or even amplify the effect of this sanity drain ? This would allow everyone to play at a level they feel comfortable with, without penalyzing anyone =)

[Ridley]

I think the dead player causing sanity to drop mechanic needs to go. I played on a few servers and found this mechanic to be garbage. Heck, I revived three ghosts players after joining a new server and there was still a ghost somewhere in the world by the time I finished. Sanity was always a mechanic that would find a way to agitate me through it messing with the graphics and playing repetitive insanity sounds, but this is out of hand.

 

The first problem is the division between the players. If you are lost in the world and are a ghost by yourself, you are definitely weighing everyone else down immensely. This makes players reluctant to play with strangers, and friends getting aggravated at friends. If I die because I lagged infront of a terrorbeak, it really adds to the frustration when 7 other people are now effected by a lag caused event.

 

The second problem is the dependency on knowledge. I know how to play this game, (save for what ever this Newcus thing is). I know that I should leave some resources at the spawn for others, use rabbit traps to kill spiders because it won't endanger my health and sanity, and I know what a tell tale heart is and how to use it. Other players don't know this because it is something you learn from playing, and not something that can easy to pick up on. "Rabbit trap the spiders to get the gland for the heart", will never be common knowledge. When you are practically racing the clock to figure out how to revive someone, it hurts even more to realize you have no real idea on how to do it. Having to learn is good, but sanity is too hard to fix to be a reoccurring problem for players who don't know a ton. Everyone learns to make fires and eat food because they are basic stumbling blocks that are easy to overcome due to ingame hints. The same is not so with this new mechanic.

 

The third problem is the burden at the start. If I die on day 50, chances are that it is a quick fix with teammates, who I know where to locate. Trying to get things done without a base and people coming and going at day 3, really gets all the burden of a dead teammate. On my server, I built the base before anyone could join so players could have a spot to settle and lose that burden of being lost. If they died, it was a quick fix as well, and that was before the ghost mechanic. It essentially is no fun at all to join a fresh world under these conditions.

 

The fourth problem is relentless status maintaining. The only break you get from a ghost player sanity drain is if they leave or get revived. Since it is likely that no one has the tools to revive the player, you get stuck trying to keep sane all the time. With 7 players all trying to pick flowers on day 3, resources get depleted way to fast. Everyone is traveling further apart in a desperation to keep sane or fix the ghost, but it is filling the game with the wrong kind of stress.

 

The fifth problem is ghost agony. Not only is the ghost player a burden now, but ghosts can't enjoy a bit of a break from running around. Ghosts have to quickly track down any person with a method to revive them, because the whole server is suffering because of them. There is no more haunting for possible benefits, it is all rushing back and forth to put out "fires".

 

If the goal is to make all the players feel some weight from having dead teammates, while making the ghosts want to become human faster, then something else needs to be done.

 

What if you made night time spookier? Like, for every ghost in the world, night time shenanigans get harder to endure. Shadow hands, Watcher's shadow, and maybe other similar stuff. It would prompt living players to help ghosts, but would get a break every day to focus on the task. Maybe give ghosts that life meter back, but make it work more like a energy meter instead. Eventually, all the haunting and moving around during the day slows them down and makes them unable to haunt until night when the meter self charges. You can also allow the ghosts to haunt something for the players to sacrifice to, just like Wendy and Abby, which would give the ghosts their energy back during the day.

[rezecib]

What if you made night time spookier? Like, for every ghost in the world, night time shenanigans get harder to endure. Shadow hands, Watcher's shadow, and maybe other similar stuff. It would prompt living players to help ghosts, but would get a break every day to focus on the task.

 

 

This is a cool idea, but other than the night hands, none of the other things actually have gameplay impact.

 

Maybe another way to adjust it would be to change it from a drain system to a threshold system-- each ghost raises the threshold for being insane, seeing nightmare stuff, etc. Although I think that's still a bit too soft.

 

I actually really like that the sanity drain forces you to revive the person as soon as possible. The downward spiral as people die also feels "right" to me-- it's the kind of relentlessness that you should experience when you're dying in Don't Starve.

 

But it does seem like there should be more ways you could deal with it-- something that would summon a ghost to you would be extremely handy, for example, since the idea is not to punish you because you can't find your dead friend, but rather to punish you because they are staying dead.

 

As I said above, it's also a problem that the sanity drain stops when they leave. This definitely creates a choice where the easiest decision is to force the person to leave. If you don't have that option, it restores it to a more cooperative atmosphere.

[Ridley]

 

I actually really like that the sanity drain forces you to revive the person as soon as possible. The downward spiral as people die also feels "right" to me-- it's the kind of relentlessness that you should experience when you're dying in Don't Starve.

 

 

The problem with this mechanic is that revival gets much easier once you have a base. Really this mechanic is just killing servers if people die on the first few days. It will be hard to encourage hosts to use public servers if they are afraid new players will effect them so negatively and passively.

 

I like the downward spiral part, I just don't want to be insane for 5 days because people lagged on a tentacle. The current system doesn't encourage people to become human again though game mechanics, it does it through guilt from your other players.

 

I don't want to give you the impression I am now arguing with you, rezecib. It kind of looks like it because I quoted you, but I was just voicing my thoughts for feedback again. You're cool 

 

I will most likely push my night time fright idea until Klei makes a change to the mechanic. Maybe it is possible to have that downward spiral from people slowly dying from a more aggressive form of night fright? 

[rezecib]

I like the downward spiral part, I just don't want to be insane for 5 days because people lagged on a tentacle. The current system doesn't encourage people to become human again though game mechanics, it does it through guilt from your other players.

 

 

Hmm, that's a really good point. It is kind of solving how OP ghosts are, but it doesn't change that ghosts still feel useful to themselves. Fixing that would probably involve losing the ability to haunt or move over time, I guess?

 

You're cool

Yay!

[Ridley]

 

 

Hmm, that's a really good point. It is kind of solving how OP ghosts are, but it doesn't change that ghosts still feel useful to themselves. Fixing that would probably involve losing the ability to haunt or move over time, I guess?

 

That is what I was thinking. Only two fun things about being a ghost is having no worries and haunting. If they only get energy back during the night or through sacrifices like how Abby does; you get a little bit less griefing, a little more teamwork, a little more balance towards spamming a tree for treeguards or such, and more reason to become alive again.

[rezecib]

@Ridley, I don't think they should get it back over night, but I do like the sacrifices thing. That makes continued haunting a cooperation between the ghost and a living player, which also throws a significant wrench in ghost-griefing.

[Clwnbaby]

Personally I'm loving the sanity drain mechanic on survival servers.  Yeah it can be a real drag at times but as it was stated earlier, it is a mechanic that forces the players to work together.  Any arguments against being "forced" to work together can be addressed quite easily.....don't play survival.  Also it does add an additional degree of difficulty to Don't Starve Together.  Personally if I'm on a server with 9 other people I know there is no challenge.  WE WILL SURVIVE and quite easily at that. 

 

In regards to the drain or hardships this may create in the early game, all I can say is why are you dying on day 5?  But joking aside this is still an easy fix.  If players stay together you all stand a much better chance at surviving.  I don't think this mechanic needs any change done other than what rezecib stated earlier in creating a way to keep the drain ongoing even when the ghost player leaves.  It is a bit of a relief when the dead player leaves and sanity is restored but that is a real easy fix to penalty. 

[Slynx]

I need few more testing with this draining gameplay, but i was some problems with implementation of it already.

 

as for some fixes - sanity is a bit too much. even dapper vest + top hat can't help you. and sometimes player that died is too far or even hides from you, while you're trying to revive him.

i think it may be better to find a different approach: spawn more terror's per ghost on a low sanity, increase threshold of insanity by few %, increase the length of the night\damage o the monsters\chances of spawning and ect.

anything that can hinder you, but still will not ruin all your game in a desperate attempt to revive the dead.

 

also some kind of range of sanity loss may be good. or if it has to be global - then make a pointer to the problem. so players would know where to go.

 

 

[XirmiX]

I'd agree but... Haven't experienced it! I joined a server full of people most of who's characters then died (when I joined there was only 1 dead. After like 10 minutes almost everyone died) but my character didn't go insane (I was playing as Wilson). I had almost full sanity! Weird... And that was yesterday, which was after the update.

[NeoDeusMachina]

Personally I'm loving the sanity drain mechanic on survival servers.  Yeah it can be a real drag at times but as it was stated earlier, it is a mechanic that forces the players to work together.  Any arguments against being "forced" to work together can be addressed quite easily.....don't play survival.  Also it does add an additional degree of difficulty to Don't Starve Together.  Personally if I'm on a server with 9 other people I know there is no challenge.  WE WILL SURVIVE and quite easily at that. 

 

In regards to the drain or hardships this may create in the early game, all I can say is why are you dying on day 5?  But joking aside this is still an easy fix.  If players stay together you all stand a much better chance at surviving.  I don't think this mechanic needs any change done other than what rezecib stated earlier in creating a way to keep the drain ongoing even when the ghost player leaves.  It is a bit of a relief when the dead player leaves and sanity is restored but that is a real easy fix to penalty. 

 

^ This pretty much. If you are joining a server and you don't know what's inside, I seriously suggest joining an Endless server to avoid sanity drain and other survival related penalties. I think that if some friends or people are really serious about cooperating, this mechanic can add a good bond between everyone, making them play even more together, forming groups of 2-3 whenever they leave camp just in case something terrible should happen, etc. SethR did say on last stream that this was intended to make a group of players more reliant on each other ( perhaps not his exact words, but close enough I guess, linky linky: http://www.twitch.tv/kleientertainment/b/595745219 )

 

[Zendy]

I love when a person expresses a dislike of something, but at least makes an attempt to provide a solution via suggestion. Awesome Ridley!

 

I was playing Luigi's Mansion today and came up with a silly idea...that perhaps...just maybe, they could make a ghost trap like in Ghostbusters. 

 

[Ridley]

I seriously suggest joining an Endless server to avoid sanity drain and other survival related penalties.

 

I think that if some friends or people are really serious about cooperating, this mechanic can add a good bond between everyone, making them play even more together, forming groups of 2-3 whenever they leave camp just in case something terrible should happen, etc. 

 

I am experiencing really limited options in which servers I can join. I am not doing PVP, so normally that leaves me with a survival mode Klei server that at the minimum has 88 ping for me. The survival thing appears to be default in most cases, as I have yet to play on a server without the sanity drain. Survival should be tougher through challenges, not number decrements.

 

This sanity mechanic makes bonds as well as Mario Party 1. Having your friends accidentally and passively ruin your character through careless mistakes or something uncontrollable like lag or limited button input, was never enjoyable. 

 

I am serious about co-operating, but taxing me for my friend's death non stop is just not fun. The ghosts have nothing to worry about mechanical. Their problem is people are telling them to get off the server. I would much rather they have some sort of issues like a energy meter to manage, and players not feeling compelled to make them leave.

[Mysanthil]

I'm enjoying the survival mode as well. My normal gameplay style is to run off and do whatever on my, contributing to the camp whenever I return. But for the most part, I'll ignore people. Survival instead forces me to rethink my style and help people. Most recently, my friend and I were doing our usual routine of ignoring people (we didn't realize it was a survival server). Then winter hit, someone died, and sanity drain popped up. We suddenly ran over and rez'd the dead person, led them to our camp, and gave them clothes. From then on, we also led every new person who spawned towards our camp and tried to clothe them. 

 

So, I think the idea of something "forcing" us to work together is great. I'd also like some way to locate ghosts, though the teleporting seems a bit OP. Maybe the divining rod or something similar could point towards a ghost? The ghosts should be able to head towards camp, spawn, or some other landmark and get help quickly. This might be more of an issue where people don't understand the game mode.

 

A different suggestion, maybe a warning popup box when joining survival mode servers? So newbies know it's harder than Endless, and everyone really needs to work together.

[Delannion]

What I dislike is that one person's mistakes can easily wipe the entire server. That's not fair to the other players.  It's certainly not fair that all 6 players have to travel together and in groups and constantly farm spiders because what if that one new guy joins the server and dies before finding base?  Whelp, guess we all gotta drop everything and go find his ghost before we all die. Oh wait, too late.

 

 

[shigad]

Perhaps if when a ghost player leaves, a special grave is left where they were, and it continues to drain sanity until you give a resurrection item to the grave? (and if you do, they resurrect when they return)

that won't be fair cause the grave is immobile and griefers can just die at the middle of 10 tier 3 spider dens and leave, and they will keep drain sanity.

[shigad]

also there are not enough ways to get sanity BACK at low levels, so this mechanic is very dangerous

[rezecib]

that won't be fair cause the grave is immobile and griefers can just die at the middle of 10 tier 3 spider dens and leave, and they will keep drain sanity.

 Then the graves could always show up near spawn or something.

 

There have been some other suggestions for a way to locate/bring ghosts to you, it would be reasonable if those worked on the graves, too.

 

also there are not enough ways to get sanity BACK at low levels, so this mechanic is very dangerous

 

It's supposed to be.

[Diabu]

Why not increasing the sanity drains depending on the World day count ? I mean, at the moment it's like 5/min/ghost. Why not start do the following :
Day  0 - 9 : 1 / min / ghost
Day 10 - 19 : 2 / min / ghost
Day 19 - 29 : 4 / min / ghost
Day 30 + : 8/ min / ghost

 

(Numbers are just for example. Need to think further)

​
Maybe also taking account of the current connected player count may help. More players means more potentially dead people.
 

[shigad]

Why not increasing the sanity drains depending on the World day count ? I mean, at the moment it's like 5/min/ghost. Why not start do the following :

Day  0 - 9 : 1 / min / ghost

Day 10 - 19 : 2 / min / ghost

Day 19 - 29 : 4 / min / ghost

Day 30 + : 8/ min / ghost

 

(Numbers are just for example. Need to think further)

​

Maybe also taking account of the current connected player count may help. More players means more potentially dead people.

 

what if you just joined at day 23 (always happens to me)?

It's supposed to be.

low levels i meant when you join and the world is emptied for flint and alike.

also how is this supposed to be that players who just joined will start to see shadow creatures too fast unrelated to how good they are in the game and their willing to help the ghosts?