Don't Starve Sanity Ideas

[ConeyKrab]

I haven't looked into any current discussions, sorry, but I'm throwing out some ideas as to how to deal with sanity:

 

1: General Auras:

Depending on the sanity of a player, they emit a sanity aura of their own. The highest "tier" (picture) of sanity would give a minor positive increase. The larger focus of this feature is what happens if the player ISN'T sane; your sanity decreases from being around them. Sanity auras could be proportional to the player's sanity, and perhaps higher or lower based on their max sanity. (The player referring to the person you're standing near)

 

2: Collective Sanity:

Perhaps as a means of dealing with certain players being sane while others are insane and having shadow monsters only visible to some, a "Sanity Pool" could exist. The Sanity Pool would add all of the players' sanity together into one giant meter that's the shared for all of them. (For example, Wendy and Webber would have a collective 200+100=300 sanity). 

 

One potential means of balancing this would be having each player only responsible for their share of the sanity meter. Looking back at the Wendy + Webber example, If Wendy were to remain completely insane, Webber could only bring the meter to the maximum of 100 sanity. Perhaps the meter could be given different colored sections or some form of indication as to how sane each player is.

 

This, however, requires another multiplayer-exclusive change; sanity-level effects would have to be percentage based rather than quantitative. For instance, going insane would have to change from being at <30 sanity to being at <20% sanity (not a set amount, just an idea). 

[oCrapaCreeper]

I like sanity being part of one collective meter. It's probably the best all-around solution to sanity suggested yet.

 

It would make Maxwell really useful to have around since he could always keep his part of the meter filled up.

[ConeyKrab]

Glad to see that you like it! Anyway, a bit more elaboration.

 

I like the idea of sanity "thresholds" being percentage-based anyway. It serves as a double-edged sword. Characters with low sanity can bounce up and down more easily, giving them a moody and less logical temperament. Characters with high sanity are less easily deterred by the fight to stay sane, but once the lose, all hell breaks loose and it's harder to get them back. 

 

Let's look at Wickerbottom as an example. She's the most sane character. It should take a lot to knock her down to insanity, because she's very logical and denying of the magic in this world. Because of this, she would give off the largest positive sanity aura when sane. However, it also makes sense for it to be harder for her to come back up. Cracking such a sane character as Wickerbottom means something drastic has happened, and it should be unnerving to herself and other characters around her. Because of this, she'd give off the largest negative sanity aura when insane.

[mizukisha]

Sounds great but what about the sanity pool? if the chars share their sanity does that mean that both have 300 sanity or the sanity meter =300 and everyone share one same sanity?

[Doctor H. Derp]

I sort of like the idea of sanity auras being positive when you're sane and negative as survivors gradually become more and more unhinged, but I'm totally against the collective sanity pool.

 

Everyone should keep their own individual sanity pools. If a player gets to the point that they start to be attacked by Them, only other insane survivors should be able to directly intervene and help. In fact, I think the system should be so rigid that even if you were insane enough to see the 3 terrorbeaks ganging up on your friend but not so insane that they'd attack you of their own accord, your attacks should miss every time because They shouldn't be corporeal enough to hit until you're insane-insane.

 

They are the shadowy masters of these dark wilds. They're supposed to be one of the more scary monsters you can fight, and nothing is quite as scary as being up against a mob that your friends can't fight for you, let alone see.

 

The only exception I can possibly think about is the dark hands, maybe they should only start spawning once a survivor is at the requisite level of insanity, but even then, I almost think that only the insane player, or players with low enough sanity, should be able to see, hear, and deal with them directly.

[ConeyKrab]

Sounds great but what about the sanity pool? if the chars share their sanity does that mean that both have 300 sanity or the sanity meter =300 and everyone share one same sanity?

 

People share the 300 sanity. To counter this, the sanity effects would switch from being quantitative to percentage based. For example, in the current way things work, at under 30 sanity shadow creatures start attacking you. This system could change it to be that under 15% sanity, the creatures start attacking (or whatever % the devs so choose): at 15% and 300 sanity, they'd start spawning at under 45 sanity. While you share the same meter, you can only fill up the meter as high as your own character's sanity can go.

 

 

 

Everyone should keep their own individual sanity pools. If a player gets to the point that they start to be attacked by Them, only other insane survivors should be able to directly intervene and help. In fact, I think the system should be so rigid that even if you were insane enough to see the 3 terrorbeaks ganging up on your friend but not so insane that they'd attack you of their own accord, your attacks should miss every time because They shouldn't be corporeal enough to hit until you're insane-insane.

 

They are the shadowy masters of these dark wilds. They're supposed to be one of the more scary monsters you can fight, and nothing is quite as scary as being up against a mob that your friends can't fight for you, let alone see.

 

 

The way I interpreted it was that the shadow creatures aren't simply hallucinations, but things that actually exist. They feed off of insanity, human suffering, etc. 

 

They aren't personal demons, so they don't have to be visible to only the player who is insane. A possible interpretation is that upon going insane, they choose to make themselves more visible in general. They're ready to feed on the insane, so they come into our definition of existence. This allows other players to see them as well.

 

Anyway, a further point I'd like to stress is that a Sanity Pool puts more emphasis on group unity. It also provides a struggle that creates more differences between playthroughs and group dynamics, especially when combined with Sanity Auras. Do you ostracize the insane character for bringing down you and/or other characters, claiming that they're more dangerous than the insane environment they're causing- or do you attempt to care for them, making sanity a group project? The choice is yours, and this can help increase the replayability of the game.

[J20hawkz]

@ConeyKrab Combining sanity? I guess this would work. But what will happen if one person is losing sanity too quick and others are gaining sanity? Will the meter go up? In that case you can have 3 people leaching sanity off pigs and one person fighting a boss with no loss to sanity.

What I said was, players don't gain sanity from other players. We have no +ve sanity aura, unless we have 100% sanity. So if I stood next to someone with 99% sanity I don't get any benefit from that. The reason being so we can't rely on others and literally turtle around. Pigs are good for that so best not to take them out of the equation.

However what we do emit is a negative aura. Now this sounds harsh but I think it balances everything out. As soon as our sanity starts to fall we emit a -ve sanity aura. Any player standing within our "field" of negativity will also start to lose sanity. That way we are encouraged to keep our sanity raised at all times. I was thinking we get a -ve sanity aura around 80% of our sanity.

[ConeyKrab]

 Combining sanity? I guess this would work. But what will happen if one person is losing sanity too quick and others are gaining sanity? Will the meter go up? In that case you can have 3 people leaching sanity off pigs and one person fighting a boss with no loss to sanity.

 

 

Yes, if someone is wearing Shadow Armor (-10/min) while another player wears a Dapper Vest (+3.3/min), assuming that both players have sanity to lose/gain, the overall rate of sanity will appear to be -6.7/min. It's the same way that all the factors surrounding you in singleplayer sum up to provide a net value, just calculated over multiple characters.

 

The boss issue is part of the reason why I suggested that each player can only contribute as much as their max sanity. This way, you can't just have a "sanity god", whom you decorate in sanity gear; they can only help you so much.

 

But I can see how the boss/pigs could still cause problems. Perhaps then, losing sanity could flow over into other players' portions of the Sanity Pool, but gaining cannot? Maybe the distribution of the additional sanity loss could be dependent also on max sanity, current sanity, and/or current sanity rates. To further balance this, the sanity auras of bosses could be amped up even more, perhaps just for multiplayer mode.

 

 

What I said was, players don't gain sanity from other players. We have no +ve sanity aura, unless we have 100% sanity. So if I stood next to someone with 99% sanity I don't get any benefit from that. The reason being so we can't rely on others and literally turtle around. Pigs are good for that so best not to take them out of the equation.

 

 

I think forcing 100% sanity to emit a positive Sanity Aura is a bit too nit-picky. I think it should go away at somewhere between 80%-70% of max sanity, That being said, I want the aura to be small; I'm talking Garland small. Only Wickerbottom's sanity aura could match the Garland. Maybe at 100% though, the Sanity Aura could be a bit higher than it would be otherwise? Nothing remarkable, but still perhaps worth striving for.

 

--An aside: I noticed that WX-78's sanity reaches 300 when he's fully upgraded (he totally needs at least a multiplayer nerf coughcough but let's stay on topic here). Perhaps a balancing mechanism for him could be not emitting a sanity aura, or perhaps at least not a positive one? Maybe he could emit a strong, negative aura when electrically charged?--

 

 

However what we do emit is a negative aura. Now this sounds harsh but I think it balances everything out. As soon as our sanity starts to fall we emit a -ve sanity aura. Any player standing within our "field" of negativity will also start to lose sanity. That way we are encouraged to keep our sanity raised at all times. I was thinking we get a -ve sanity aura around 80% of our sanity.

 

Yes, the negative factor of Sanity Auras is the major reason why I wanted to suggest this idea. While it makes sense that sane players can help other players cope, it makes more sense for insane characters to be unnerving. I want negative auras to be a detriment more than I want positive auras to be a benefit, basically.

 

What do you think of the idea of characters with higher sanity giving off more "polar" Sanity Auras? I'd like some feedback on that topic.

 

I agree with the "grace period" idea. I think that there should be a gap between emitting a positive aura and then a negative one. Perhaps a small chunk, such as only taking place through a 10% portion of the character's sanity (If it would be from 80%-70%, for example, Wendy would emit no Sanity Aura from between 160-140 sanity). I do think that there should be "stages" of negative Sanity Auras, if not a proportion of sorts to how low their sanity is. If it has to be done in stages, I think it could be done like this:

 

Tier 1: Max sanity: max aura (not too big still, but different than Tier 2)

Tier 2: Under max sanity, but still "sane": positive aura, but not max

Tier 3: Slipping from sanity, a small grace period: 0 sanity aura. (It should be noted that now, Mr. Skits appears at under 160 sanity)

Tier 4: Out of the grace period, going insane: Small, but notably obnoxious aura. (Hands and Watchers appear at under 130).

Tier 5: Insane, but not current-game-shadow-attacking insane: The sanity aura becomes an area of concern now

Tier 6: If the Sanity Pool weren't in play, you'd be getting attacked insane: Major aura that brings up the help vs ostracize issue

Tier 7: TOTAL INSANITY (0 sanity): Drastic aura that ranks up there: between dark sword, night armor, spiders, etc.

 

 

EDIT: Also bringing up the idea that I want the sanity auras to be relatively large. Perhaps not fullscreen large, but definitely larger than that of the Glommer/Treeguard, whom you have to rub up against to get anything from. Maybe the sanity aura's radius could be three-to-four ingame "tiles" (as seen via the pitchfork)? Maybe like the Ice-Flingomatic?

[mizukisha]

@ConeyKrab, Thanks for your answer,I like the idea ! That sound great to me .

[Doctor H. Derp]

The way I interpreted it was that the shadow creatures aren't simply hallucinations, but things that actually exist. They feed off of insanity, human suffering, etc.

 

Oh you're definitely correct that They aren't simply hallucinations. I'm not sure if They feed off of insanity or human suffering, it's never been revealed what exactly their aim is or why They do what They do, but They're definitely not mere haunted figments of a deranged mind.

 

They aren't personal demons, so they don't have to be visible to only the player who is insane. A possible interpretation is that upon going insane, they choose to make themselves more visible in general. They're ready to feed on the insane, so they come into our definition of existence. This allows other players to see them as well.

 

Well They are inspired off lovecraftian interstellar demons and elder gods. It's not that They don't exist until They choose to exist, it's that the mortal mind is incapable of truly comprehending the nature of such horrors. Say, should a pot fall down in your house at night for no good reason and it was the work of such shadowy beings passing through this plain of existence, even if it were in front of your face, but you were relatively of sound mind, you might only see a flicker, a minute trace of something skittering in the shadows, but probably not find much anything else because your subconscious is actively trying to preserve your mental health.

 

The more you seek to understand the nature of said cosmic terrors, the more unhinged your mind grows as it tries to see beyond the veil, which in turn causes you to see more of such ghastly beings, which also causes your mental health to deteriorate all the quicker: it's a giant vicious cycle.

 

So assuming They operate similarly, and They seem to, a sane player really shouldn't be able to fully appreciate or comprehend the deviously deplorable destruction such shadowy beings can dish out if they're of sound mind, but if they were trying to see passed the veil as to what their insane friend was running from, then they might just start to see things that no human mind ought be trying to see.

 

Maybe there should be a huge sanity drain aura around a player being attacked by Them so to help players get into the fight to help?

 

Anyway, a further point I'd like to stress is that a Sanity Pool puts more emphasis on group unity. It also provides a struggle that creates more differences between playthroughs and group dynamics, especially when combined with Sanity Auras. Do you ostracize the insane character for bringing down you and/or other characters, claiming that they're more dangerous than the insane environment they're causing- or do you attempt to care for them, making sanity a group project? The choice is yours, and this can help increase the replayability of the game.

 

What it does is make the game easy.

"Oh, my friend is being attacked by nightmarish beings from behind the veil, let me go get my conventional weapon and kite them..." which is exactly how it'd play out. There will be no "ostracizing" anyone, and you know it.

Insanity as it stands is already a bit of a joke to any player that gets beyond 100 days. At least if the shadow creatures could single out only the insane of the group, they become that much more frightening, as per lore, and that much more threatening, again as per lore as they're the shadowy masters of this wilderness.

Really, I'd love for Klei to come back and revisit insanity, because I really shouldn't want to go down to the Ruins to collect nightmare fuel, I really shouldn't have an incentive to go insane, there should be multiple different types of offensive shadow creatures, maybe even a shadowy giant creature, and certainly a lot more sanity effects like maybe food turning to ash before my very eyes or something.

[ConeyKrab]

 

What it does is make the game easy.

"Oh, my friend is being attacked by nightmarish beings from behind the veil, let me go get my conventional weapon and kite them..." which is exactly how it'd play out. There will be no "ostracizing" anyone, and you know it.

 

 

Not quite the case. With a sanity pool, shadow creatures become visible at the same time for everyone. If one person is still sane and the group is still far down enough on the sanity meter to spawn the aggressive insanity monsters. the concept is, that as a group, the players are broken down and insane enough to see them. An insane character's state of mind takes a toll on a sane character.

 

If the Sanity Pool isn't used, I do think a sane player should see an insane player fighting things that aren't there. But with the Sanity Pool, everyone sees them when they spawn. At that point, the overall group mentality has been broken down to the point where they become visible/comprehensible/whatever.

 

The ostracizing comes more from the Sanity Auras than it does the Sanity Pool, sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Doctor H. Derp]

Not quite the case. With a sanity pool, shadow creatures become visible at the same time for everyone. If one person is still sane and the group is still far down enough on the sanity meter to spawn the aggressive insanity monsters. the concept is, that as a group, the players are broken down and insane enough to see them. An insane character's state of mind takes a toll on a sane character.

 

If the Sanity Pool isn't used, I do think a sane player should see an insane player fighting things that aren't there. But with the Sanity Pool, everyone sees them when they spawn. At that point, the overall group mentality has been broken down to the point where they become visible/comprehensible/whatever.

 

The ostracizing comes more from the Sanity Auras than it does the Sanity Pool, sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

The point I was making in the text you extracted from my post is that the shadow creatures are easy enough as it stands and would only be easier with help. So what that you all go insane together with your proposed sanity pool? Then you all just fight the terrorbeaks and crawling horrors until you go up passed a collective "30 sanity" if you get my meaning.

 

I don't think you understood my criticism. Of course you can't actually "ostracize" someone from the group as they're still part of the pool regardless. What I'm saying is that no one honestly is going to be that angry that they're tanking the collective sanity down because so what? It's just terrorbeaks and crawling horrors and now they can't even gang up on you as there's a free spear for each one.

 

The only thing I somewhat like about this idea of sanity pools is it's application in PvP. I want to weaken my adversaries? I want them to be distracted? Go insane, tank my portion of the pool, and have the nightmare creatures weaken them or push them into an unfavorable position.

[ConeyKrab]

Right then, well that requires more of a fix for the sanity creatures- which I totally don't oppose.

 

Heh, if the devs are looking for another DLC Suggestion, an expansion that further pursues science and magic would be great. Mad Science and Black Magic, maybe? Crazy new contraptions, strange new magical devices, and major changes to sanity!

[Doctor H. Derp]

Right then, well that requires more of a fix for the sanity creatures- which I totally don't oppose.

 

Heh, if the devs are looking for another DLC Suggestion, an expansion that further pursues science and magic would be great. Mad Science and Black Magic, maybe? Crazy new contraptions, strange new magical devices, and major changes to sanity!

 

Totally unopposed.

I'd love a DLC really fleshing out the insanity mechanic and make it truly horrifying.

[Malan-Tai]

But sanity events ARE in percents ! For example as Wickerbottom you become insane at about 40 (@MycoLogical isn't it ?), while as Webber it's about 20 or so.

[J20hawkz]

Yes, if someone is wearing Shadow Armor (-10/min) while another player wears a Dapper Vest (+3.3/min), assuming that both players have sanity to lose/gain, the overall rate of sanity will appear to be -6.7/min.

But then this nullifies the effects of sanity boosting gear. The purpose of the Top hat is to increase sanity. So if I wanted to raise my sanity by +3.3/min (Top Hat boost) and a friend was battling a Tree Guard, so our collective sanity will be dropping by -96.7/min (-100/min Tree Guard).

Can you also please elaborate on this.

What do you think of the idea of characters with higher sanity giving off more "polar" Sanity Auras? I'd like some feedback on that topic.

[Flare2V]

Strongly prefer option 1. A collective pool of sanity shouldn't dictate how the group functions, nor does it make any sense. Sure, you could calculate the number of sane people in a group or average it out but that wouldn't make the normals crazies and the crazies normals.

[XirmiX]

The idea would be great IF IT MADE ANY SORT OF SENSE! So it's better in my opinion that everyone has their sanity, and shadow monsters to sane people are not visible, to insane people visible and possibility to fight them and those who have half the sanity would see the shadow creatures but would not be able to kill them, so if someone is fighting the shadow monsters who is completely insane, the half sane person could see this happening but couldn't help out. For every insane person a new Crawling horror shows up and may be have the same with Terror beaks, idk, and may be Mr. skits too have multiple of them depending on the amount of insane people. For the hands, only half insane and insane could see them, hear them and make them go away. As for sane people they couldn't see them, nor hear them, nor move them away, so if a hand reaches a fire and a sane person is near, it would appear to the sane person as if the fire just went down a bit on its own. Sanity is a hard thing in the game and I'm hoping devs are reading all the sanity topics around here, or at least some of them.

[oCrapaCreeper]

The idea would be great IF IT MADE ANY SORT OF SENSE! So it's better in my opinion that everyone has their sanity, and shadow monsters to sane people are not visible, to insane people visible and possibility to fight them and those who have half the sanity would see the shadow creatures but would not be able to kill them, so if someone is fighting the shadow monsters who is completely insane, the half sane person could see this happening but couldn't help out. For every insane person a new Crawling horror shows up and may be have the same with Terror beaks, idk, and may be Mr. skits too have multiple of them depending on the amount of insane people. For the hands, only half insane and insane could see them, hear them and make them go away. As for sane people they couldn't see them, nor hear them, nor move them away, so if a hand reaches a fire and a sane person is near, it would appear to the sane person as if the fire just went down a bit on its own. Sanity is a hard thing in the game and I'm hoping devs are reading all the sanity topics around here, or at least some of them.

They aren't a player's personal nightmares, so only being visible to the insane players doesn't make much sense when They are actually there.

 

At the bare minimum They need to be visible to all players.

[Clwnbaby]

I think A) Sanity should be player based

          B) The Shadow Creatures are only visible to those who are crazy enough to see them.  So if you have full sanity and cant see any shadow creatures where as one or more of the people are below their perspective levels where they can see them, only those who are crazy enough can see them.  Also they see them only at the frequency and intesity of thier perspective sanity.  This way anyone below 30 sanity are the only ones who can fight the shadow creatures where as those above 30 though they can see the creature the crazy player is fighting they cant do anything to help.

 

I think this would be AWESOME! Because then there would be times your totally fine gathering grass or berries meanwhile in frame one or more of the other players are just wildly swinging thier weapons around.  That would look Hilarious!

 

Also dont forget how this would affect bunnies and beardings.  Which ones hold superiority?  If one player is crazy does everyone see beardings? or do they all need to be crazy?  is it the player that kills the bunny/bearding who determines it? 

 

Again I think this is more easily sovled with a personal sanity scale rather than a collective one.  Not only that but then say there is a player who doen't mind being crazy all the time or plays the game trying to being crazy; they can be a source for the collective whole of all nightmare materials such as beard hair, nightmare fuel and such.  Or say the same character wants to work against the collective whole they could turn all edible meat like bunnies in traps into beard hair and monster meat simply because they picked it up even though the other players are not crazy. 

 

It will be interesting to see the part sanity will play in Together

[Doctor H. Derp]

They aren't a player's personal nightmares, so only being visible to the insane players doesn't make much sense when They are actually there.

 

At the bare minimum They need to be visible to all players.

 

Yeah They are indeed there. That didn't stop your weapon flying right through Them when not insane enough to attack when that was possible.

 

It's not that They're actually "invisible" to sane players, it's that sane people's minds aren't adequately... tempered to be able to comprehend such otherworldly horrors. Their brain would rationalize that the fire went out on it's own as opposed to a shadowy hand from the darkness reached in and dowsed some of the flame.

 

Only the insane should be able to truly see the nature of these shadowy creatures, and to everyone else? Oh well Wilson is just having another episode. Must've been too many uncooked morsels or maybe not sleeping for 3 weeks straight wasn't such a great idea. Oh well, I'm sure he'll be fine once he calms down.

[oCrapaCreeper]

Yeah They are indeed there. That didn't stop your weapon flying right through Them when not insane enough to attack when that was possible.

 

It's not that They're actually "invisible" to sane players, it's that sane people's minds aren't adequately... tempered to be able to comprehend such otherworldly horrors. Their brain would rationalize that the fire went out on it's own as opposed to a shadowy hand from the darkness reached in and dowsed some of the flame.

 

Only the insane should be able to truly see the nature of these shadowy creatures, and to everyone else? Oh well Wilson is just having another episode. Must've been too many uncooked morsels or maybe not sleeping for 3 weeks straight wasn't such a great idea. Oh well, I'm sure he'll be fine once he calms down.

Well, everyone kind of has to be able to see them, otherwise I'm not sure how things like night hands would work, which affect the environment around them.

 

That's why everyone's sanity being part of one meter works is ideal. If not, then I think it should work like this:

 

• Shadows creatures will start to appear if a player has low enough sanity
• Shadow creatures will only be hostile to the players who have low enough sanity to provoke them
• Players can optionally force attack shadow creatures that are hostile to other players.

[rsrs]

They aren't a player's personal nightmares, so only being visible to the insane players doesn't make much sense when They are actually there.

 

At the bare minimum They need to be visible to all players.

But They are only visible to insane characters. They can be real, but are invisible to sane characters.

 

The sanity pool idea could create various problems, as well as a huge potential for sabotage. But it could be interesting if this was one of the game options (Hive mind - everybody shares the same sanity pool).

[Doctor H. Derp]

But They are only visible to insane characters. They can be real, but are invisible to sane characters.

 

The sanity pool idea could create various problems, as well as a huge potential for sabotage. But it could be interesting if this was one of the game options (Hive mind - everybody shares the same sanity pool).

 

[Doctor H. Derp]

 

Well, everyone kind of has to be able to see them, otherwise I'm not sure how things like night hands would work, which affect the environment around them.

 

That's why everyone's sanity being part of one meter works is ideal. If not, then I think it should work like this:

 

• Shadows creatures will start to appear if a player has low enough sanity
• Shadow creatures will only be hostile to the players who have low enough sanity to provoke them
• Players can optionally force attack shadow creatures that are hostile to other players.

 

I already went through it. Like, again, with the night hands, if a sane player is standing by the fire when one of Them douses it, they should just see the fire inexplicably go down in intensity. It would be as if their subconscious is trying to rationalize and preserve their sanity that the fire must've just died down suddenly of it's own accord as opposed to dark terrors being at work here.

 

• Agreed.
• Doubly agreed.
• Sure, but I think each attack should miss until the player seeking to help reaches the requisite level of insanity to be attacked themselves.