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Silvi

This game is too easy/ This game is too hard - feedback

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Silvi    27

Because I like writing these long posts from time to time, here is another. I write it before the update in hope that it will stop at least ONE person from complaining about winter being too hard and demanding a nerf.

I have been lurking these forums for a while before actually joining and even if I were here for just this one month I had plenty of opportunity to see the clash between the people who think DS is too easy and those who claim every other feature should be made easier.

I have seen the argument of new players pop up here and there and decided to share some thoughts about the system from that point of view and some feedback on all them things.

Is the game hard to learn? Only in some areas.In my experience the game has points which are never explained. To learn you can move with WASD and do stuff with space I had to look on the forums. That's technical stuff, but I feel like a simple keymapping should be included in the game.

However all the prototypes are well described, all the monsters so far have patterns you can figure out easily enough.

The game is easy once you learn the patterns At first surviving to day 10 was to me a problem. My record as it stands right now is +160-170 days across 3 worlds (+50 in world 1, +50 in world 2 and +60 in world 3, then I died to beefalo which I aggro'd.... yeah theywere all over my camp and next to my meat effigy...sad story). My deaths usually are an effect of not paying attention and of saving and quitting the game on low health - as then when I load it I forget I'm injured and run off to hunt monsters only to be rather surprised when I die in 1 hit.

This game is not a farming and lifestyle symulator It's supposed to be a survival game, yet I saw the argument of "some of us just want to make it to day 50" or "some of us would like to just get a base without worrying about dying every five seconds". If you learn how to play this game you will achieve those things. But this game makes you work for fancy bases. It's not hard to learn the patterns and figure out what kills you and what helps you, yet it requires some amount of time invested into it.

This game is not for everybody and is definitely not a casual game. It may have been easy some months ago, but now with the new additions it's becoming progresively more complex. Question is, does this mean everything has to be made as delicate as possible to make sure this game appeals to the widest possible audience? I would say no, we have way too many tripple A games that pander to that brownish-gray mass of "casual audience".

One thing comes to my mind though:

Games are entertainment. If you buy a game you expect to have some entertainment out of it. After all you paid for it and games are one of the few sources of entertainment that actually make you work for your fun (as opposed to movies for example). If the game is way too hard for you to play, you seem entitled to being dissappointed. (in yourself for not being able to play it well enough or in the game for not giving you a 'fair' chance - at least to you).

Tl;dr: To me it seems like the game is only hard if you don't feel the conviction to learn how to play it. However, I realize that if you spend money on a game you want to play and enjoy it.

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Uszaty    19

Tl;dr: To me it seems like the game is only hard if you don't feel the conviction to learn how to play it.

This. It's also too hard for people that try to play it kinda wrong (like a Farmville/Sims)

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Palpetinus    839

I have to agree once again.I only got one thing to add:I bought this game for 4 of my friends. At their first attempts they made it to day 5-10, i explained them nothing at all. I was all like "hey, try out this game!". They did, and they learned. Now they are all as good as me.Conclusion: This game is freaking easy to learn. The guys i gave the game to were all different, one of them barely plays games at all. I don't see why anyone would think it's too hard.

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Silvi    27

I have to agree once again.I only got one thing to add:I bought this game for 4 of my friends. At their first attempts they made it to day 5-10, i explained them nothing at all. I was all like "hey, try out this game!". They did, and they learned. Now they are all as good as me.Conclusion: This game is freaking easy to learn. The guys i gave the game to were all different, one of them barely plays games at all. I don't see why anyone would think it's too hard.

So far I forced 5 people to play this game. One person didn't have much time to play it yet, another is still learning but is doing progressively better with each try, one is better than me already, even though he got the game three weeks ago and two are currently in process of planning their first koalaphant hunt.So yes. The game is easy to learn if actually have patience for it and don't flip your desk at your 5th or 6th death.One thing I noticed: Learning curve of this game is about 4-5 hours, which is half of the nowaday's usual FPS game's time.

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Livedreamer    10

I also think that this game is too easy. But i don't mean it the way that i can beat everything without taking any damage. What i mean is so far all rogue like games i played had a huge randomization. In Don't Starve i don't feel the randomization apart from world generation. You can predict what's going to happen, therefore you can allways be prepared. What i want in this game is random happenings. More hound attacks. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more hound attacks. I get a hound attack every 20 days... I want to have them every like 7. But mainly want them to be random. Like now we can tell that winter comes around 30 days. I want winter to be random so it can come as a surprise. I want random events that take me out of my comfort zone. Right now i feel like I'm at my base and nothing can get me. And literally nothing can. But if the hardships were to happen randomly, they could get me off guard and be a challenge. Sorry my post is a mess, b i think you get the point.

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Silvi    27

Winter after 20 days, lasts 15 days. 15 Honey HamsGG

I'm on day +30 (34 or 35, something around those lines) in my game, my 3 fridges are already overflowing with food. Herd of beefalo nearby. A lot of bee mines just in case. 20 fire darts. 10 days ago I had about the same minus the bee mines.I think I'm all set.(lol your Leleuch avatar is so dissappoint)

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Silvi    27

I also think that this game is too easy. But i don't mean it the way that i can beat everything without taking any damage. What i mean is so far all rogue like games i played had a huge randomization. In Don't Starve i don't feel the randomization apart from world generation. You can predict what's going to happen, therefore you can allways be prepared. What i want in this game is random happenings. More hound attacks. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more hound attacks. I get a hound attack every 20 days... I want to have them every like 7. But mainly want them to be random. Like now we can tell that winter comes around 30 days. I want winter to be random so it can come as a surprise. I want random events that take me out of my comfort zone. Right now i feel like I'm at my base and nothing can get me. And literally nothing can. But if the hardships were to happen randomly, they could get me off guard and be a challenge.

Sorry my post is a mess, b i think you get the point.

^ +1 to this. The fact you can predict most of the stuff in this game means as long as you know how to prepare you're golden. Edited by Silvi

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_Q_    472

I'm on day +30 (34 or 35, something around those lines) in my game, my 3 fridges are already overflowing with food. Herd of beefalo nearby. A lot of bee mines just in case. 20 fire darts. 10 days ago I had about the same minus the bee mines.I think I'm all set.(lol your Leleuch avatar is so dissappoint)

I will start new world after winter update to test it like it should be.
I always want to do something like this, when someone asks for unneeded nerf:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ZVKmMyxP0

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I think it also depends on if you start to play it alone. I had fun figuring out everything in the game, while others get help. So the start is not that fun to them.One of my friend told me he finds the game too easy, asking him his record days he said he survived about 50 days and stopped playing. Yeah it's really easy in 50 days....I think it's nice to set a goal, I'm on my 1000 days challenge right now.P.S. I think Maxwell's puzzles keep me more entertained than playing the game itself haha

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Silvi    27

I will start new world after winter update to test it like it should be.

I always want to do something like this, when someone asks for unneeded nerf:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ZVKmMyxP0

I first want to attempt to kill deerklops. It's my first goal.Darn you make me want to watch CG again.but i share these feelings. Every time I see a thread about something being overpowered/needing a nerf I feel like it's a bad day for science.

I think it also depends on if you start to play it alone. I had fun figuring out everything in the game, while others get help. So the start is not that fun to them.One of my friend told me he finds the game too easy, asking him his record days he said he survived about 50 days and stopped playing. Yeah it's really easy in 50 days....I think it's nice to set a goal, I'm on my 1000 days challenge right now.P.S. I think Maxwell's puzzles keep me more entertained than playing the game itself haha

I'm the same way - my record is not much above 80 days (was a couple of days ago) and I move on because I'm tired.Maxwell's puzzles and this forum are the two reasons I still am playing the game XD Edited by Silvi

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daldingo    11

I also think that this game is too easy. But i don't mean it the way that i can beat everything without taking any damage. What i mean is so far all rogue like games i played had a huge randomization. In Don't Starve i don't feel the randomization apart from world generation. You can predict what's going to happen, therefore you can allways be prepared. What i want in this game is random happenings. More hound attacks. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more hound attacks. I get a hound attack every 20 days... I want to have them every like 7. But mainly want them to be random. Like now we can tell that winter comes around 30 days. I want winter to be random so it can come as a surprise. I want random events that take me out of my comfort zone. Right now i feel like I'm at my base and nothing can get me. And literally nothing can. But if the hardships were to happen randomly, they could get me off guard and be a challenge. Sorry my post is a mess, b i think you get the point.

Ummm, what? As it stands, once you get around day 150, 10+ hounds start coming ever 3 days or so. And this is a survival game. In survival games there needs to be an element of preparation. Having seasons come randomly is unwieldy and awkward. I think a better solution would be to have more hound-like mobs in the game (like the hunting party) that may find you while you're fighting off something else, or right after when you're vulnerable. Maybe more creature that stalk you at night. Make night more dangerous, maybe. But buffing hounds (which supposedly is already happening) isn't going to take the game to a new level of difficulty, just more annoyance. Edited by daldingo

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Silvi    27

Ummm, what? As it stands, once you get around day 150, 10+ hounds start coming ever 3 days or so. And this is a survival game. In survival games there needs to be an element of preparation. Having seasons come randomly is unwieldy and awkward. I think a better solution would be to have more hound-like mobs in the game (like the hunting party) that may find you while you're fighting off something else, or right after when you're vulnerable. Maybe more creature that stock you at night. Make night more dangerous. But buffing hounds (which supposedly is already happening) isn't going to take the game to a new level of difficulty, just more annoyance.

I am not liking the idea of hounds being harder to deal with, I'm not a fan of the hounds on the whole, they're an arbitrary random encounter. And I just run around beefalo when they come anyway. Say what you will, I find fighting them tedious so I let my beef do the work.

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Moonkis    132

I also think that this game is too easy. But i don't mean it the way that i can beat everything without taking any damage. What i mean is so far all rogue like games i played had a huge randomization. In Don't Starve i don't feel the randomization apart from world generation. You can predict what's going to happen, therefore you can allways be prepared. What i want in this game is random happenings. More hound attacks. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more hound attacks. I get a hound attack every 20 days... I want to have them every like 7. But mainly want them to be random. Like now we can tell that winter comes around 30 days. I want winter to be random so it can come as a surprise. I want random events that take me out of my comfort zone. Right now i feel like I'm at my base and nothing can get me. And literally nothing can. But if the hardships were to happen randomly, they could get me off guard and be a challenge. Sorry my post is a mess, b i think you get the point.

I couldn't agree more that the game lacks random elements which makes it way to predictable, and there is where this game falls short. If you ever find 1 tactic, that will most likely work 100% of the time ( Given that you are unlucky and get a **** world, but I find that scenario to be rare ).I for one vote for semi-random attack patterns, making kiting less viable and effectively increase the danger of monsters.

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_Q_    472

I for one vote for semi-random attack patterns, making kiting less viable and effectively increase the danger of monsters.

^This, and more random evens: natural disasters, monster swarms, sudden sanity drops and what not.

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Silvi    27

I for one vote for semi-random attack patterns, making kiting less viable and effectively increase the danger of monsters.

If it makes it possible to still rise from the challenge victorious, I dont' se why not. Give me a 5 day leeway to make camp and I can hopefully take everything on.

(...)natural disasters, monster swarms, sudden sanity drops and what not.

Bee swarms attacking your beeboxes, random forest fire, a persistant nightmare creature lowering your sanity. Sounds interesting.

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Palpetinus    839

I am not liking the idea of hounds being harder to deal with, I'm not a fan of the hounds on the whole, they're an arbitrary random encounter. And I just run around beefalo when they come anyway. Say what you will, I find fighting them tedious so I let my beef do the work.

Beef AND Guadian? Those beefalo are nice creatures.

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Silvi    27

Beef AND Guadian? Those beefalo are nice creatures.

They are my only friends that will never betray me....as long as I have my beefalohat

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Livedreamer    10

What i meant was usually when i play a rogue like game my plan is always the same, but every game feels different because of the random elements. But in don't starve everything feels the same all the time, because there are no random stuff that is game changing. What i mean is like, find an item, or resources that are rare and random that change the way you plan your gameplay. Now it's always the same. For me my game pattern is: 1-7 days get like 2-3 stacks of grass, branches, 1 stack flint, 6 stacks wood, most of the time i find a lot of stone too so 4 stacks stone + lot of gold from them then i make a complete base. Bam! In under 10 days i already have fridges, both science machines, lot of carrot and berries(cause they are everywhere), have like 4 boxes next the fridges. From then on it's all about getting the gimmicky items. I think there is a bit too much carrots and berries at the beginning, food is not enough of a problem there but that's not actually my main point. I want random stuff to hinder me in making my comfort zone, and after i made it i want stuff to like harass my resources or something. The only thing currently in the game that does this with me are hounds, and i can't think of anything else. Maybe a well timed treeguard, or if insanity would be harder to manage, then the shadow monsters.

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Palpetinus    839

They are my only friends that will never betray me....as long as I have my beefalohat

Your only friends?What about your imprisoned bunnies?

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Silvi    27

What i meant was usually when i play a rogue like game my plan is always the same, but every game feels different because of the random elements. But in don't starve everything feels the same all the time, because there are no random stuff that is game changing. What i mean is like, find an item, or resources that are rare and random that change the way you plan your gameplay. Now it's always the same. For me my game pattern is: 1-7 days get like 2-3 stacks of grass, branches, 1 stack flint, 6 stacks wood, most of the time i find a lot of stone too so 4 stacks stone + lot of gold from them then i make a complete base. Bam! In under 10 days i already have fridges, both science machines, lot of carrot and berries(cause they are everywhere), have like 4 boxes next the fridges. From then on it's all about getting the gimmicky items. I think there is a bit too much carrots and berries at the beginning, food is not enough of a problem there but that's not actually my main point. I want random stuff to hinder me in making my comfort zone, and after i made it i want stuff to like harass my resources or something. The only thing currently in the game that does this with me are hounds, and i can't think of anything else. Maybe a well timed treeguard, or if insanity would be harder to manage, then the shadow monsters.

Treeguard is summoned pretty much and shadow monsters just happen if you're low on sanity so they're hardly random.The fact you can turtlemode in that comfort zone is the reason why the game is easy - as long as you learn the rules of the game you know how to deal with stuff.Also true about every game looking the same. for me day 1-5 is exploring and collecting resources, and then from day 6 onwards it's just building base, getting resources, making oodles of food, running around beefalo, decimating a forest, fighting a random spider queen if I feel like it and going on a koalaphant, the end.Winter will probably add 'repairing base' and 'stacking firedarts' to the list.

Your only friends?What about your imprisoned bunnies?

Imprisoned bunnies are fake friends. they scream when they see me.

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Daddums    10

I'm convinced now that the Devs (and many of those crying for more nerfs and a tougher game) ARE NOT starting new games and toughing them out until a solid base and steady survivability are achieved.

Note to Devs: You know all the tricks and have dev shortcuts to test your creations- your new player base does not.

I've never kept a game beyond 130 days because the tough part is getting there.

People who want their year(s) old games to be tougher are missing the point.

..and Devs who don't play their own game the way a new player will experience it will doom a beautiful thing.

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Silvi    27

I'm convinced now that the Devs (and many of those crying for more nerfs and a tougher game) ARE NOT starting new games and toughing them out until a solid base and steady survivability are achieved.

Note to Devs: You know all the tricks and have dev shortcuts to test your creations- your new player base does not.

I've never kept a game beyond 130 days because the tough part is getting there.

People who want their year(s) old games to be tougher are missing the point.

..and Devs who don't play their own game the way a new player will experience it will doom a beautiful thing.

It's not the devs that really give the game a spin, it's the players.

I start a new game every time an update hits simply because the new content is on new maps.

You're chucking wild accusations/implications around, I'm afraid.

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